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What part did I miss where Johnny definitely proved Tony was lying about Blundetto's alibi? I know it's something obvious but I sort of glazed over it I guess.
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Nov 20, 2019 13:42
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BiggerBoat posted:What part did I miss where Johnny definitely proved Tony was lying about Blundetto's alibi? I know it's something obvious but I sort of glazed over it I guess. Not so much "proved", but he never really believed Tony in the first place but had to swallow it for business (part of the appeal of being the Boss was that he thought he wouldn't have to anymore), and took Blundetto killing Billy as "proof" that he killed Joey too. Comrade Blyatlov posted:RIP Adriana, you had a good heart but possibly the worst judgment of anyone in the series Matush, Christopher, Richie Santini, Tony himself... yeah she didn't have the best track record unfortunately  Am I the only one who bought into the idea that she was really getting out when she was shown driving by herself after Tony's call about the suicide attempt? I wanted to believe she was going to get away so badly.
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Nov 20, 2019 14:00
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Jerusalem posted:Richie Santini Look. Let me tell you something, dude. Thank you, but I've recorded... ...In Denmark! 
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Nov 20, 2019 14:31
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Jerusalem posted:Matush, Christopher, Richie Santini, Tony himself... yeah she didn't have the best track record unfortunately She even blew Penn Jillette in a restroom.
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Nov 20, 2019 16:02
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I wonder if Carmine Sr. just made being the boss of one of the Five Families look so easy his son thought he could do it.
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Nov 20, 2019 16:11
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"I can finally do my memoirs" is an all time classic Christopher line 
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Nov 20, 2019 16:17
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Jerusalem posted:Am I the only one who bought into the idea that she was really getting out when she was shown driving by herself after Tony's call about the suicide attempt? I wanted to believe she was going to get away so badly. I went through the series unspoiled a couple years back and I also remember thinking she was leaving, and then that Christopher really was hospitalized. The weird thing is I wound up confusing a future flashback scene of Christopher telling Tony as having been in this episode. So when I started reflecting on the series as a whole I was confused as to how I ever thought the suicide angle was real in the first place. A drawback of binge watching I guess.
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Nov 20, 2019 16:56
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Grammarchist posted:I went through the series unspoiled a couple years back and I also remember thinking she was leaving, and then that Christopher really was hospitalized. That scene was originally shot for this episode, but apparently de Matteo and Van Zandt were able to convince David Chase to cut it in order to preserve the suspense and surprise. It's eventually included during "The Ride" when Tony and Christopher get drunk after the wine heist.
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Nov 20, 2019 17:02
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Jerusalem posted:Not so much "proved", but he never really believed Tony in the first place but had to swallow it for business (part of the appeal of being the Boss was that he thought he wouldn't have to anymore), and took Blundetto killing Billy as "proof" that he killed Joey too. The moment Tony called I knew she was finished. He was playing it TOO concerned, you know?
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Nov 20, 2019 19:50
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:The moment Tony called I knew she was finished. He was playing it TOO concerned, you know? With the benefit of hindsight, his questions about if she knows why Christopher might have tried to commit suicide aren't just probing but downright cruel. He's effectively telling her,"This is your fault, you should feel bad" so she won't question things or suspect it's a bullshit story.
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Nov 20, 2019 22:27
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I read it more as "poo poo, what's the one way I can guarantee that she wont ask questions about me sending someone to bring her in?" Cruel? Maybe. But he needed to keep her off balance.
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Nov 20, 2019 23:23
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I think we're on the same page here? In any case, goddamn that has to be one of the most devastating exits to a show I can remember. Poor Adriana.
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Nov 20, 2019 23:36
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I appreciate that there was some level of tastefulness in the way they handled her death, I mean look at what happens to a certain character in the next episode and how we see it in excruciating detail from multiple lingering camera angles.
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Nov 21, 2019 00:59
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I'm just thinking it through, and throughout the entire series did she make a single good decision?
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Nov 21, 2019 01:07
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Jerusalem posted:Not so much "proved", but he never really believed Tony in the first place but had to swallow it for business (part of the appeal of being the Boss was that he thought he wouldn't have to anymore), and took Blundetto killing Billy as "proof" that he killed Joey too. OK cool. I thought I missed a giant "AHA!" revealing moment that sunk the whole story and Tony's made up alibi. John was super loving pissed in the limo and was all "I swear to God, if you're lying to me" that I thought there was a plot point that really set him off and sealed the deal. The escalation happened fast it seemed. Everything with Blundetto felt rushed and forced. Regarding bad decisions....I think Bevalacqua, Brendon, Jackie Jr...there's a long list of players with real lovely judgement. Pretty hard to pick one. Now that I think on it, it's harder to pick someone that had good judgement than poor. Maybe Svetlana. Or Furio who just said "gently caress this". I don't even remember if I bought that Ade was bailing but I do recall that the moment I saw Chris eyeing up that convenience store family that he'd made up HIS mind at least not to cooperate but I wasn't sure he went to Tony, especially given their latest interactions. When I saw Ade in the car with Sil I knew that was it for her though. Question: maybe I am naive but don't the feds at least keep a cursory tail on their cooperating witnesses? They already know Pussy and Jimmy were killed and that Ade was in the hot seat and could be next. Seems like it'd be a simple thing to do to put a tail on Chris and/or Adriana given the stakes and in light of her buying for more time. We've seen them follow several other mobsters for less. I dunno. Putting a car on them seems like an easy no brainer. Also really hard to watch Ade cave so loving quick and just totally give up the game like that. With a lawyer - or even just keeping her mouth shut - her story seemed like it would have checked out or at least been hard to disprove. The feds didn't HAVE the bloody towels, right?
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Nov 21, 2019 01:24
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They would have been sunk if she actually had a lawyer, but when she FINALLY asked for one (which she should have done months earlier) and admitted she didn't have one, that gave them all the rope they needed to insist they were calling but couldn't get a public defender (I'm sure they're overworked, but they could have gotten one down if they'd REALLY tried). The FBI always spoke to her in absolutes, about how she was already guilty, what her sentence would be etc, and she took that all at face value. She absolutely would have been found guilty and done time, but I imagine it wouldn't have been anywhere near the level they claimed it would be even if they requested the absolute maximum possible. They took advantage of that fact that she was closely associated with the mob without actually being a part of it, so she was vulnerable but unfamiliar with the stalling tactics and technicalities she could have used to get, if not clear, her punishment at least reduced. Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Nov 21, 2019 |
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Nov 21, 2019 02:28
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Its weird how much pressure they put on her knowing that nothing of real value would ever be said in her presence. Esp when they have Ray Curto giving them plenty to build a case on (and possibly Eugene by this point). Youd think once they knew about Matush theyd just go straight to Chris directly to get him on board to keep Adriana out of prison the way they do when other mobsters kids gently caress up.
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Nov 21, 2019 04:07
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Based on Cubitoso's demands I assume they thought she was such a piece of the background they could wire her up and get Tony or at least Christopher on tape talking crime. They had also already tried to force her to accept allowing them to bug the Crazy Horse where A LOT of crime did get discussed, since Christopher rather naively had already insisted that the FBI didn't even know the place existed and probably wouldn't for months despite the fact he and all the other Captains AND the Boss of the Family were frequently hanging out there. I think the mindset is always to work their way up the chain to get at the big fish. Remember that in season 1 when they approach Tony about flipping, they tell him they're aiming for Johnny Sack with flipping HIM in mind to then get at Carmine. Of course, part of that was that they had already built a case against Junior and were going to be bringing him in pretty soon.
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Nov 21, 2019 04:34
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:I'm just thinking it through, and throughout the entire series did she make a single good decision? Yeah she blew Penn Julette
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Nov 21, 2019 04:42
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Your Gay Uncle posted:Yeah she blew Penn Julette Fuckin lowlife oval office whooah!
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Nov 21, 2019 04:50
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Your Gay Uncle posted:Yeah she blew Penn Julette Lmao
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Nov 21, 2019 04:52
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I thought Chris did try to kill himself, but in the hospital had told Tony that Adrianna was working for the FBI. Jack2142 fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Nov 21, 2019 |
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Nov 21, 2019 05:57
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Jack2142 posted:I thought Chris did try to kill himself, but in the hospital had told Tony that Adrianna was working for the FBI. I don't think there was any room for misinterpretation there. I think it might even be explicitly stated in season 6.
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Nov 21, 2019 08:55
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The flashback makes it explicit. They’re in Tony’s basement talking about what needs to be done. There’s no way a suicide attempt would be admitted out of the hospital quick enough for Adriana not to know.
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Nov 21, 2019 09:51
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Adriana is a victim but also an idiot who would go nowhere in life without the ill gotten blood money of a mob boyfriend to buy her clubs and studio time and poo poo
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Nov 21, 2019 13:19
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codo27 posted:Adriana is a victim but also an idiot who would go nowhere in life without the ill gotten blood money of a mob boyfriend to buy her clubs and studio time and poo poo Not sure how you come to that conclusion. Adriana is naive but she's not a complete moron. There are any number of ways she could've been successful in life by going a more traditional route, just because you're not a club owner with fancy clothes and jewelry doesn't mean you're "nowhere in life". Even if she just used her looks and nothing else, she could've simply married a rich guy who wasn't a mobster. Of course, there are reasons why Adriana doesn't see those alternate routes until it's too late, but that has nothing to do with intelligence.
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Nov 21, 2019 15:25
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Yeah, Adriana was born to the life just as much as any of the men.
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Nov 21, 2019 16:51
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Dawgstar posted:Yeah, Adriana was born to the life just as much as any of the men. That's why her character is so tragic. Even if she's kind of an idiot, she's really a sweet and loyal person, and if she hadn't been indoctrinated from childhood to find a rich mobster to take care of her, to the point where she legitimately thinks Chris is model-handsome and a great catch, she probably would have had a normal life with a minimum of law-breaking and violence. Instead, she gets treated like garbage and her kindness and loyalty get wasted on protecting a bunch of murderers and abusers from the consequences of their actions. BiggerBoat posted:OK cool. I thought I missed a giant "AHA!" revealing moment that sunk the whole story and Tony's made up alibi. John was super loving pissed in the limo and was all "I swear to God, if you're lying to me" that I thought there was a plot point that really set him off and sealed the deal. The escalation happened fast it seemed. Everything with Blundetto felt rushed and forced. I felt like I missed a beat in the last episode, actually -- what was the reason behind Phil killing Angelo? I thought THAT must have been the "aha" moment when they decided Angelo and Tony B must have killed Joey Peeps.
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Nov 21, 2019 17:13
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Tony is actually partly at fault for Angelo getting killed. Tony originally brought up idea of a three-way power-sharing structure for the Lupertazzi family to Lorraine and Angelo at that one sit-down, the idea being that it would be Johnny Sack, Carmine Jr., and Angelo. When Tony later brings it up to Johnny and gets a hostile reaction, he basically says "It was Angelo's idea anyway" So when the back and forth murders started, first Lorraine then Joey Peeps, Johnny was under the impression that Angelo was the driving force rather than Rusty. So that's one of the reasons they took out Angelo, as well as knowing that he was friends with Tony B. in prison and kept him safe. Johnny's suspicion of Tony B. being the one that killed Peeps factored into that hit.
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Nov 21, 2019 17:19
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Long Term Parking is legit one of my favorite Sopranos episodes. I wonder how much of Johnny's friendship with Tony is legit and how much is, on some level, him just playing Tony the way he did Pauly.
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Nov 21, 2019 17:31
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Angelo was directly involved with the transaction to kill Joey Peeps. At that point he was basically working for Little Carmine, or at least clearly siding with him, and so that's enough for Johnny to want him gone. I think you have to assume Johnny knew about Angelo's involvement. Phil says "you couldn't retire?" when he kills him, which indicates to me that it was about more than just killing someone that Tony B cared about.
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Nov 21, 2019 17:45
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I wasn't saying Tony B. was the only reason, just part of it. It was mainly because Angelo was siding with Little Carmine (he was almost immediately regretful of the Peeps hit) and because Tony flat-out told Johnny that Angelo was the one that suggested sharing the Boss role when Angelo was the one that protested, saying he's retired.
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Nov 21, 2019 19:17
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Pope Corky the IX posted:I wasn't saying Tony B. was the only reason, just part of it. It was mainly because Angelo was siding with Little Carmine (he was almost immediately regretful of the Peeps hit) and because Tony flat-out told Johnny that Angelo was the one that suggested sharing the Boss role when Angelo was the one that protested, saying he's retired. Yea I imagine it was a case of Johnny hearing about Angelo wanting to share power and knowing right there that he would have to go at some point, but then when the Peeps thing goes down and Angelo's wrapped up in it, Johnny said ok well that's it for this guy, his time is up.
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Nov 21, 2019 19:20
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At work, a user has a clock radio on their desk. As I wait for their PC to reboot, don't stop believing starts playing. An immene sadness falls over me
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Nov 21, 2019 19:23
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I can’t hear that song without thinking about the sopranos, specifically how much it sucks that James gandolfini is no longer with us. Fantastic actor and wonderful human being. RIP to a real one
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Nov 21, 2019 20:18
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The intro rules. I dunno how else to put it, but it just sounds cool
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Nov 21, 2019 20:19
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I copped that poo poo as well and sometimes rock it going to work and whatnot. You know the band is english?
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Nov 21, 2019 20:43
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Suxpool posted:I don't think there was any room for misinterpretation there. I think it might even be explicitly stated in season 6. I meant I thought this while watching the episode, I am aware this isn't what actually happened.
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Nov 22, 2019 00:55
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Wait wait wait wait Silvio played with Bruce Springsteen!? How did I not know this This is easily one of the best episodes of the whole show, definitely one of the most memorable. The way Christopher loses his mind when she tells him, and he strangles her, then apologizes while crying and screaming, you really feel how desperate and impossible of a scenario he's in. And there's this shift in the way he talks, he's suddenly calmer when he asks to go for a walk. It seems like he's calmed down. You just about buy it... but you know its too easy. He's up to something. And yet, the story about him ODing and needing to go to the hospital is the perfect cover, it puts Adriana in panic about Chris and so she isn't thinking about her own safety, she's in a rush and isn't thinking things through, and its too late before she realizes it. Roller-coaster of emotions. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 08:35 on Nov 22, 2019 |
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Nov 22, 2019 08:24
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COMPAGNIE TOMMY posted:I can’t hear that song without thinking about the sopranos, specifically how much it sucks that James gandolfini is no longer with us. Fantastic actor and wonderful human being. RIP to a real one Yeah, its become like "stuck in the middle with you" always reminds me of Reservoir Dogs now and a guy getting his ear cut off. Totally changes the mood of the song!
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Nov 22, 2019 08:38
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