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OwlFancier posted:Ah well now that gets tricky doesn't it, because our rights come into conflict, you see. I might really like making GBS threads on their bed, why does their right to not have a shat bed trump my right to enjoy making GBS threads? Who owns the property. That is who has a right to it. If they stole the property they dont have a right to it and others may forceably return it to its rightful owner. If you poo poo on my property I'll stop you. That is right.
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Nov 21, 2019 08:35
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Filipino posted:Obviously if you broke into someone elses house and shat on their property you would be violating their human rights. Self ownership does not mean you have the right to infringe on the rights of others. Property isn't real. Hth. I know that probably comes across as sass, but it isn't. Property, like money, is nothing more than a societal fiction. The phone you are holding? It is yours because we have agreed upon social rules that dictate the way you obtained it, the rights you have as a result of possession of it. I could dig up my old Mongol Based Economics post if you'd like, but the gist is that property has meant many things to many different human societies over millennia, which is why people get annoyed that you are trying to build a foundational moral truth out of something that is subjective. Since property rights are nothing but a social agreement, a fiction that agrees upon when a person can and cannot use violence, the libertarian hand wringing about how taxation is theft is loving absurd. Property rights are a reflection of social consensus, as is government. If we decide that we want everyone to have healthcare as part of a tax funded UHC program, well then property rights shift to accommodate that, and you pay more in taxes. Absent that social agreement, there is nothing to stop me from beating you over the head with a comically oversized mallet and stealing all of your stuff.
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Nov 21, 2019 08:35
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Filipino posted:Who owns the property. That is who has a right to it. If they stole the property they dont have a right to it and others may forceably return it to its rightful owner. What governing body decides who gets to own it? Me and my army think it is my property. What are you going to do about the tanks I have, bitch?
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Nov 21, 2019 08:36
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Filipino posted:If you poo poo on my property I'll stop you. That is right. Says who? What, precisely, gives you that right?
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Nov 21, 2019 08:36
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Filipino posted:You can apply to other jobs. That is freedom. Dont be obtuse. You realize you are free to work where you like. Have you ever tried just walking into somewhere and saying "I work here now" because it doesn't generally work out, I promise you  I am "free" to work where I like in exactly the same sense I am "free" to poo poo on other people's beds, which is to say I can do that if they let me, but they're generally quite picky about it and you've already stated you're not a fan of people deciding to poo poo where they like.I also am not free not to work. And I am also not free to work for myself. Because again, capitalist monopoly on the means of production. I can't work my own land, I can't work my own tools, to produce my own goods, because the land and the tools and the sales vectors are monopolized by capital. I also note that they didn't "earn" it either, most of them inherited it, and what they didn't inherit was produced by workers, not them. It is not the product of their time and labour. It is the product of other people's time and labour which owing to their monopoly on force they have coerced from others. Your video would suggest it clearly wasn't theirs to begin with.
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Nov 21, 2019 08:36
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Filipino posted:Who owns the property. That is who has a right to it. If they stole the property they dont have a right to it and others may forceably return it to its rightful owner. Have you ever heard of enclosure because if not I've got some bad news about the origins of property rights.
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Nov 21, 2019 08:37
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Caros posted:Says who? What, precisely, gives you that right? The fact that I am an individual human being grants me human rights.
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Nov 21, 2019 08:40
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OwlFancier posted:Have you ever heard of enclosure because if not I've got some bad news about the origins of property rights. Native and african americans probably not super chill with it either.
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Nov 21, 2019 08:40
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Filipino posted:The fact that I am an individual human being grants me human rights. So... woo magic bullshit? The number of fringes on my flag says I have the right to inoculate you against Rubella, sorry.
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Nov 21, 2019 08:41
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Filipino posted:Community is a good thing. I expect people in a free society would join together and have eachothers backs. Except not loving sociopathic wierdos like you. Also you must be a Jrod alt. Come the gently caress on.
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Nov 21, 2019 08:41
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Filipino posted:The fact that I am an individual human being grants me human rights. Can you shoot them out of the bitcoin logo on your chest like a care bear to fight off statists?
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Nov 21, 2019 08:43
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Xiahou Dun posted:Except not loving sociopathic wierdos like you. His version of the world would rule for me because all my neighbors think socialist antifa soyboys like me should be shot, so as soon as there wasn't a state, I would be exiled if not outright killed. Freedom!!!!
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Nov 21, 2019 08:44
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woozy pawsies posted:His version of the world would rule for me because all my neighbors think socialist antifa soyboys like me should be shot, Well... I mean?
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Nov 21, 2019 08:46
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Caros posted:Well... I mean? i dont want to be shot
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Nov 21, 2019 08:47
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woozy pawsies posted:His version of the world would rule for me because all my neighbors think socialist antifa soyboys like me should be shot, so as soon as there wasn't a state, I would be exiled if not outright killed. Freedom!!!! As an antifa soy boy, it just doesn't make any sense. It's just dumb. C'mon you perfect martial artist prince. If you're too much of a wuss to fight a trans-woman in a mall, how about a pudgy academic? I'm 196 pounds of kind of some muscle under a love of bacon.
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Nov 21, 2019 08:50
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Caros posted:Says who? What, precisely, gives you that right? My rights are inherient in my humanity. All human persons have rights, including the unborn.
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Nov 21, 2019 09:10
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Filipino posted:My rights are inherient in my humanity. All human persons have rights, including the unborn. Seems convenient that inherent rights seem to line up exactly with your ideology.
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Nov 21, 2019 09:13
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The overlap between libertarians and the more deranged brand of christianity is probably the second weirdest thing about it after the noncing tbh.
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Nov 21, 2019 09:14
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Filipino posted:My rights are inherient in my humanity. All human persons have rights, including the unborn. Okay, so some fetuses homestead your stuff. You're okay with that, right?
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Nov 21, 2019 09:15
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Ratoslov posted:Okay, so some fetuses homestead your stuff. You're okay with that, right? No human being has the right to steal property from another human being.
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Nov 21, 2019 09:24
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Sounds to me then like the proprietor has the inalienable right to yeetus that fetus out of there then.
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Nov 21, 2019 09:25
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OwlFancier posted:Sounds to me then like the proprietor has the inalienable right to yeetus that fetus out of there then. The fetus has body parts beating like a human heart at 6 weeks. Thats about the time most women discover they're pregnant. The fetus and the mother do not share blood and hiv is almost never transfered to the fetus. They have seperate blood types a lot of the time. The fetus is a distinct human being seperate from the mother. They both have inalienable rights.
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Nov 21, 2019 09:30
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Filipino posted:The fetus has body parts beating like a human heart at 6 weeks. Thats about the time most women discover they're pregnant. The fetus and the mother do not share blood and hiv is almost never transfered to the fetus. They have seperate blood types a lot of the time. The fetus is a distinct human being seperate from the mother. They both have inalienable rights. Yeah, like ownership of your clothes and your house. They homesteaded that poo poo bro. Mixed their labor with the land.
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Nov 21, 2019 09:32
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OwlFancier posted:Sounds to me then like the proprietor has the inalienable right to yeetus that fetus out of there then. I've always felt like that's the best libertarian argument for abortion - landlords and Valhalla DRO are free to evict people even if they'll die from it, and having someone squatting in your garden shed is waaaaay less intrusive than having someone squatting in your abdomen. If the fetus didn't want to die then maybe it should have learned to take care of itself outside the womb. 
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Nov 21, 2019 09:35
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Filipino posted:The fetus has body parts beating like a human heart at 6 weeks. Thats about the time most women discover they're pregnant. The fetus and the mother do not share blood and hiv is almost never transfered to the fetus. They have seperate blood types a lot of the time. The fetus is a distinct human being seperate from the mother. They both have inalienable rights. Boy howdy it's a real goddamn shame if those rights should come into direct conflict with one another then isn't it.
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Nov 21, 2019 09:35
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The woman has no right to kill the fetus. Theres no contradiction.
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Nov 21, 2019 09:38
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Filipino posted:The woman has no right to kill the fetus. Theres no contradiction. Cool, so when someone steals your stuff you have no right to use force to retrieve it, then?
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Nov 21, 2019 09:39
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Doesn't seem to me like the fetus has a right to squat in the womb just because it'll die if it doesn't, the mother owns her self, after all.
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Nov 21, 2019 09:41
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Nevermind
Filipino fucked around with this message at 09:45 on Nov 21, 2019 |
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Nov 21, 2019 09:43
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Property owners are under no obligation to make allowances for other people in how they dispose of their property, unless you're a woman and the property is your body, of course.
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Nov 21, 2019 09:45
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He's not even a good gimmick.
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Nov 21, 2019 09:47
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OwlFancier posted:Property owners are under no obligation to make allowances for other people in how they dispose of their property, unless you're a woman and the property is your body, of course. You can kill another to protect your proterty rights if thats the least amount of force avalible. However the fetus has not done anything wrong. They simply exist. So this situation is different. You cant kill a completely innocent human being.
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Nov 21, 2019 09:48
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Filipino posted:Who owns the property. That is who has a right to it. If they stole the property they dont have a right to it and others may forceably return it to its rightful owner. Well a few minutes ago you said anarchism means no other humans can tell me what I can and can't do, now you're telling me that other humans can say they own all the land and resources, and I can't grow my own food and must work for them.
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Nov 21, 2019 09:49
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Filipino posted:You can kill another to protect your proterty rights if thats the least amount of force avalible. However the fetus has not done anything wrong. They simply exist. So this situation is different. You cant kill a completely innocent human being. So you don't think landlords can evict tenants or business owners can fire people arbitrarily then.
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Nov 21, 2019 09:50
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Filipino posted:You can kill another to protect your proterty rights if thats the least amount of force avalible. However the fetus has not done anything wrong. They simply exist. So this situation is different. You cant kill a completely innocent human being. Filipino posted:No human being has the right to steal property from another human being. Use of someone's body and internal bodily nutrients are 'property'. That fetus is a thief.
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Nov 21, 2019 09:51
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Sweet someone gave JRod a new throaway username and some caffeine pills let's fuckin do thisFilipino posted:The woman has no right to kill the fetus. Theres no contradiction. If I stitch you to a person such that removing you from that person will kill them, do you have the right to remove yourself from that second person? I admit fully that me stitching you to them was violence enacted upon you. 100%. No argument there. But if you exercise bodily autonomy by removing yourself from them, they die. Do you have the right to exercise bodily autonomy by removing yourself from them?
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Nov 21, 2019 09:53
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Somfin posted:Sweet someone gave JRod a new throaway username and some caffeine pills let's fuckin do this If being stiched to them for a short period of time is causing you harm you have the right to remove the stitch. Mothers can have their pregnant uterus removed if there is a tumor growing on it. But look how far you have to go to defend baby killing.
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Nov 21, 2019 10:00
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Just put the troll on ignore. At least jrod was interestingly awful.
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Nov 21, 2019 10:02
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The very act of carrying a child causes harm to the carrier, to say nothing of giving birth. Seems to me that the mother's rights come first here! What about medical expenses, don't see why people should be required to shell out those either.
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Nov 21, 2019 10:02
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OwlFancier posted:The very act of carrying a child causes harm to the carrier, to say nothing of giving birth. Seems to me that the mother's rights come first here! Every child has the right to be taken care of by their parents.
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Nov 21, 2019 10:06
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