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22 minutes of Dave talking on his own, circling the issue to try to get at it and going off on wrestling tangents. I think he should have used the word racist, but he did a decent job of talking about it.
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Nov 21, 2019 14:15
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Jordan7hm posted:22 minutes of Dave talking on his own So, where is Bryan's condemnation? Is he content with letting Jim from Virginia make his point for him?
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Nov 21, 2019 14:23
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Big Huski Boi posted:My point was that he couldn't even discuss what Cornette said for three minutes before pivoting into how he thought something else was worse. And admittedly I was wrong on that, it's more like the 2:30 point in the episode where he first starts talking about Justin Roberts.
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Nov 21, 2019 14:25
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jesus WEP posted:So what exactly is your point? Just that Dave goes off on tangents? How is that related to whether or not he avoided talking about Cornette and race? He came back to it multiple times. jesus WEP posted:Dave has displayed shocking white fragility recently, notably about ACH, and you sure can say he didn't condemn it in strong enough terms My point is that his inability to discuss it for more than 2.5 minutes before resorting to whataboutism is exactly why I think he "didn't condemn it strong enough terms."
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Nov 21, 2019 14:27
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I think it’s incredibly misguided to read that much into Dave Meltzer of all people going off on a tangent. If he didn’t come back to it, you would absolutely have a point. But he did, and for a lot more than 2.5 minutes.
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Nov 21, 2019 14:39
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jesus WEP posted:But he did, and for a lot more than 2.5 minutes. If you can't stop lying about this then we're done here. All I meant was that he took that long to pivot to something else, not that he spent 2.5 minutes in total discussing the topic. I've been very clear about that and I don't get why you have to act this way.
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Nov 21, 2019 14:44
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Incessant Excess posted:So, where is Bryan's condemnation? Is he content with letting Jim from Virginia make his point for him? WOR is the Dave show. Even with wrestling Bryan’s real takes are on the show with Vinny.
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Nov 21, 2019 14:44
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Super No Vacancy posted:there is plenty of chatter about cedric and stokely leaving roh due to racism Cedric was EXTREMELY over in ROH and they didn't do poo poo with him
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Nov 21, 2019 14:44
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How the hell did Bryan think the two dudes in the subway from the Dark Order promo were Santana and Ortiz?
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Nov 21, 2019 14:57
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I'm sure some people don't like the idea of Dave saying part of this is Cornette being divisive and having enemies but within 5 minutes of the tweet going up with the video people were @ing and DMing me about it to cancel Cornette. Cancel culture is real, and it's real good. (Wolf Howl) It's also good he said Lagana has some responsibility here.
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Nov 21, 2019 15:50
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El Gallinero Gros posted:Cedric was EXTREMELY over in ROH and they didn't do poo poo with him they gave him the gimmick of whacking people with a ring wrench
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Nov 21, 2019 15:51
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OctoberCountry posted:How the hell did Bryan think the two dudes in the subway from the Dark Order promo were Santana and Ortiz? Look into your heart, you know the answer.
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Nov 21, 2019 16:04
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I'm excited for the Best of 2019 to drop so i can learn all the things Bryan didn't understand this year
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Nov 21, 2019 16:09
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I think Dave was a bit soft because he obviously knows Cornette but I think everything he said was good and true. He also avoided defending Cornette. He also made a good point that people just absolutely ignored Orton for some bizarre reason. I kind of hope Dave comes back to this and really goes off when Cornette just doubles down and makes this his new brand.
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Nov 21, 2019 16:11
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it’s weird how quickly orton was written off by everyone when it happened because it did get posted here and on reddit
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Nov 21, 2019 16:17
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I think my one big complaint with Dave is that he chalks all of the racism stuff to Cornette not keeping up and being stuck in the past. Which is a big part of it, a lot of Cornette is stuck in the past. But he's also a dude who's just full of hate. He seems to hate everyone and everything. Dave recognizes that when he talks about Cornette's comments about Roberts and his comments about AEW but doesn't really recognize how Cornette's hate also feeds into the racism.
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Nov 21, 2019 16:22
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Gumball Gumption posted:I think Dave was a bit soft because he obviously knows Cornette but I think everything he said was good and true. He also avoided defending Cornette. He also made a good point that people just absolutely ignored Orton for some bizarre reason. It's not that bizarre when you remember that Orton basically never gets in trouble for anything. He was on strike 2.99999999 for wellness for years. The last time he probably got in trouble was when he was found AWOL from the Marines and got a Bad Conduct discharge. So people hear that he used a racial slur online and the community at large probably just shrugged because he's not going to face consequence from it.
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Nov 21, 2019 16:36
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Gumball Gumption posted:I think my one big complaint with Dave is that he chalks all of the racism stuff to Cornette not keeping up and being stuck in the past. Which is a big part of it, a lot of Cornette is stuck in the past. But he's also a dude who's just full of hate. He seems to hate everyone and everything. Dave recognizes that when he talks about Cornette's comments about Roberts and his comments about AEW but doesn't really recognize how Cornette's hate also feeds into the racism. His point was that it was just part of society then, that you could get away with that poo poo. It wasn't good, but not enough people cared at the time for it to stop. Look at comedy movies from the 90s (actually, don't). There was so much homophobia and transphobia and it just was... there. There wasn't a huge outrage about the Finkle is Einhorn stuff in Ace Ventura Pet Detective at the time, but there's not a chance that'd fly by today's standards. People just cared way less back then. You could "get away" with it. "It's just a joke" was accepted as an excuse for the bigotry, regardless of how much actual hate was behind the comment. Cornette's problem here, one amongst many, is that that he's unwilling to accept that times have changed, and he's not the kind of person who'll back down from it. Cornette's gonna Cornette, and it's bad for everyone involved, especially Cornette. When I first heard about powerrrrrrr I was curious to check it out, but the second I saw Cornette on camera I closed tab and haven't looked back, and he's got nobody to blame but himself for that. My only surprise is that it is got through editing.
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Nov 21, 2019 17:15
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I have to say referring to it as "that slur word" is a beautiful little Daveism
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Nov 21, 2019 17:16
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lmao @ Dave on WOR talking about corny like he's dead
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Nov 21, 2019 17:52
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This Meltzer on Cornette thing is the most rambling apologetic thing ever. That's embarrassing. I don't wanna be gently caress MELTZER because 99% of people saying that are absolute pinheads. But seriously, man, its your loving job to call poo poo like an adult. Equivocating and waffling for Jim Cornette is dumb as hell.
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Nov 21, 2019 17:52
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Listening to Dave talking about Cornette gave me strong energy of a family member trying to defuse the situation after their racist uncle caused a scene. "Yes what Uncle Jim said was racist and offensive, and he has a history of saying stuff like this without ever apologizing, but he didn't mean it like that that's just how he is. He's not a bad guy, he served his country, and built that swingset for you by hand for no charge back when you were six. He's family, I really think you should reconsider not inviting him to Thanksgiving."
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Nov 21, 2019 18:14
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Big Huski Boi posted:He talked about it for like three minutes before going off on a 15 minute tangent about how what Cornette said about Justin Roberts was actually worse. Good, because it was
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Nov 21, 2019 18:40
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Capn Combustible posted:Listening to Dave talking about Cornette gave me strong energy of a family member trying to defuse the situation after their racist uncle caused a scene. I literally had this happen years ago when I went to my best friends parents for Christmas and was one of two black people there. Her Grandpa thought it would be a good idea to give his grand daughters husband a stuffed gorilla because they " looked alike". And Every one did their best to downplay it. I honestly think Dave doesn't want to admit that his long time friend is a piece of poo poo and in a weird way I get that.
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Nov 21, 2019 19:00
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Are you really a good friend if you let your friend roll in the poop?
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Nov 21, 2019 19:02
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It’s really hard to just drop a person you’ve been friends with for 30+ years. For various reasons.
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Nov 21, 2019 19:04
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I am glad the clip is up, because that's what I heard, mostly skirting around the issue, and most likely trying to protect Cornette, Lagana and NWA (he doesn't want to burn a bridge, which understandable) I think what happens is Bryan just has an outline, let's Dave go off for ten minutes then chimes in to follow up or if he's going in the wrong direction and the main topic of "Can AEW numbers go up" becomes about Kota Ibushi in the Tokyo Dome. Was the ladder match and revival match on NXT really as good as all of Dynamite? Or did Dave just go to squared circle and the board?
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Nov 21, 2019 19:07
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People on this board make too many excuses for Dave.
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Nov 21, 2019 19:07
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extradite THIS! posted:It’s really hard to just drop a person you’ve been friends with for 30+ years. For various reasons. As an admitted and semi-reformed shitbag, you don't have to drop a person just to call them out and tell them to get their poo poo straight. Punch them yourself to keep them from getting murked by the local 7-11 posse.
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Nov 21, 2019 19:16
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In my experience the longer you have a friend the easier it becomes to call them out on their poo poo.
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Nov 21, 2019 19:18
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Big Huski Boi posted:In my experience the longer you have a friend the easier it becomes to call them out on their poo poo. To their face, yes. I'm not publicly throwing them under the bus though, even if I know they're wrong.
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Nov 21, 2019 19:21
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TelevisedInsanity posted:I am glad the clip is up, because that's what I heard, mostly skirting around the issue, and most likely trying to protect Cornette, Lagana and NWA (he doesn't want to burn a bridge, which understandable) lol just lol that you think the San Jose Steamroller can be controlled or contained.
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Nov 21, 2019 19:22
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It's a shame all this outrage can't result in people going outside, raising their hands to the sky and donating their power to SSJW Goku and help him form a PC Spirit Bomb large enough to deplatform everyone in the White House and the surrounding area. It's kind of surprising that this was what took Cornette down as you'd think the numerous homophobic and racist comments he's made over the years would have been enough. PaybackJack fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Nov 21, 2019 |
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Nov 21, 2019 19:31
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Lone Goat posted:lol just lol that you think the San Jose Steamroller can be controlled or contained. He can't even get chopped by one half of the chop and roll express?
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Nov 21, 2019 19:31
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I mean you just show up at the next Lousiville comic convention with a tire iron and bad intentions...
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Nov 21, 2019 19:32
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PaybackJack posted:It's a shame all this outrage can't result in people going outside, raising their hands to the sky and donating their power to SSJW Goku and help him form a PC Spirit Bomb large enough to deplatform everyone in the White House and the surrounding area. 
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Nov 21, 2019 19:32
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actually thought dave would do better than he did because i thought 'fried chicken' was an explicit enough signifier to get him to go 'thats racist.' but no you apparently have to get to the randy orton or hulk hogan level, which makes it very easy to compartmentalize racist people and write them off without dealing with the larger issues. it makes sense that he thought the justin roberts thing was worse because it was a direct attack on an individual. he similarly thinks someone being CALLED a racist if they aren't is really awful, because it's a direct attack on an individual. though he does not have any ill intent he has not put together the more insidious ways that casual or systematic or otherwise-motivated racism hurts individuals. this goes hand in hand with him whining about people with CAUSES (or AGENDAS) to advance, because he does not understand that those people are trying to change giant systems rather than dealing with individuals
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Nov 21, 2019 19:33
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PaybackJack posted:It's a shame all this outrage can't result in people going outside, raising their hands to the sky and donating their power to SSJW Goku and help him form a PC Spirit Bomb large enough to deplatform everyone in the White House and the surrounding area. before this you could have falsely claimed "he's changed!" but now you can demonstrably prove he has not changed.
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Nov 21, 2019 20:23
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In my opinion it is not enough to just say “behind the times” or “offensive”. I think saying the word “racist” is really, really important. The “black people love fried chicken” trope was for most of the 20th century linked to images of black people as poor, lazy idiots. It is one step above watermelons in evoking the “shiftless darkies” image that was a core part of post-Reconstruction justifications for Jim Crow and apologism for slavery. Cornette’s joke combined all that with the idea of continental Africans as violent, hungry savages. A myth that was used for centuries to justify colonialism and imperialism. Just saying these kinds of comments are offensive isn’t enough. They are part of a centuries-long tradition of justifying and excusing real, horrific violence against black people all over the world. They are racist, and if we don’t call them racist, we’re playing into the hands of the people who say it was just one joke.
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Nov 21, 2019 21:49
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Yeah, actually calling something for what it is matters, especially racism since so many people hesitate so much to call racism out as racism. We criticized the NWA apologies for not saying it. Its fair and consistent to criticize Meltzer for not saying it.
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Nov 21, 2019 21:54
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