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So you're saying I won't need to drop 1000 down on the full Index + controller + headset set-up, and can still enjoy the VR experience for Alyx just fine. What sorts of combinations are we talking here for getting my hands on the game without breaking open the bank and renovating my entire room? And what sorts of games would that end up disqualifying? I know a lot of really early VR experiences tended to be full 1 to 1 movement.
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Nov 22, 2019 18:43
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The Bee posted:Huh, really? How do the headsets work without the trackers? As someone with a rather small room this appeals to me. Cameras on the headset determine your position/that of the controllers. Most of the time it works just as well as external trackers, except for when you do stuff like hold your hands behind your back in which case it's mostly able to approximate their position anyway.
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Nov 22, 2019 18:45
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The Bee posted:So you're saying I won't need to drop 1000 down on the full Index + controller + headset set-up, and can still enjoy the VR experience for Alyx just fine. any headset/controller combination that supports SteamVR or OpenVR will work with Alyx. I don't like to support Facebook so I tend to recommend the samsung odyssey headsets because you can typically find them for under $400 with controllers on Amazon and they're really nice. You also don't really lose out on any experiences unless a game very specifically requires Roomscale, and even some of those are nice enough to be scalable so you can just teleport around if you don't have the room
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Nov 22, 2019 18:49
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The Bee posted:So you're saying I won't need to drop 1000 down on the full Index + controller + headset set-up, and can still enjoy the VR experience for Alyx just fine. What's your card series. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-mixed-reality are the cheapo VR. Do everything the big boys do, but cheaper. If you just want to play Alyx / HL3 when it comes out, and are budget conscious this'll be your best bet. Can only really play VR games on Steam, so Alyx, Boneworks, Budget Cuts, Job Simulator, Doom VFR, etc. Average is $150-$250. https://www.oculus.com/quest/?&utm_...LMMvw&gclsrc=ds is the current recommended across the board. Oculus has an exclusivity policy, and they also make AAA games that are only playable on Oculus devices. Insomniac has released 4-5 games on their service now, all extremely polished and high quality. They also just put out a 40+ hour RPG that people are loving. Plus a few more interesting VR only type games like Lost Echo. Would be fine to play all the SteamVR stuff when linked to your PC, done with a C cable you can get for $15. Total $415. No need to get the higher GB one if you are using it as a PC device, since it'll be using your PC HDD. Problem is it's Facebook. Other option if you want the Oculus stuff but $415 is a bit pricey is https://www.oculus.com/rift-s/?&utm...PUCrA&gclsrc=ds it comes with the tether already, and it'll be $350 during Black Friday. Only big problem is you can't adjust the eye sensors like you can with the Quest, so you can get motion sick and not be able to fiddle with it. Like for me $415 wasn't breaking the bank. It was hefty, but "well, I've had a tough year and deserve a big Christmas" style hefty, and that's how I justified it. $1k is absurdist and gently caress that. I also wanted other VR stuff, so I ended up getting the Quest to be able to play more VR games then just Alyx. Had I been more budget conscious, I'd have probably picked up the Odyssey as mentioned. Also I imagine you could emulate or pirate the Oculus games on other VR headsets, but I don't want to bother doing that. Other people might be able to speak more towards it. Rookersh fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Nov 22, 2019 |
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Nov 22, 2019 18:53
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The Bee posted:So you're saying I won't need to drop 1000 down on the full Index + controller + headset set-up, and can still enjoy the VR experience for Alyx just fine. Most VR games at this point are playable seated as long as you have room to move your arms. Early on Valve especially was obsessed with the notion of no locomotion and everything 1:1 with your space but... that died out pretty quickly as most people don't have 12' squared of empty space next to a computer. The majority of locomotion is done like in regular games, with a thumbstick, and most learned a while ago to give you sort of force powers to pick stuff up from a distance so you're not having to bend over to the ground every time (in HL:A they skin it as gravity gloves apparently). There are exceptions of course, like the Lone Echo games where you're floating in zero g so pulling and pushing yourself off walls like an astronaut to move around, but for the most part the world has settled on thumbstick movement, or teleportation. Turning is generally also done as standard with the other thumbstick, most games giving you the option between turning smoothly, or in steps, which can be more comfortable for people. Thats not to say things can't be more immersive if you have space to stand and jump around and do turning with you actual body, but its the rare VR game at this point you can't play seated. The things that are disqualifying are some earlier games, some realistic shooter games where they want you crouching and going prone and moving for real, specifically onward (unless they've added a seated mode i'm unaware of). Most games don't have height adjustment built in to them, so you might have to adjust your height manually with the system so it thinks you're at a standing height instead of looking like you're walking around crouched. Though, even in this more and more games have options in the settings for seated mode or height adjustments, but you can still always manually set that stuff if not.
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Nov 22, 2019 19:14
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The space requirements aren't that bad. You need a minimum area of about 6 ft by 6 ft. I have barely that and have had no problem with room scale stuff. Sure I have to move my coffee table to the side to get it but whatever it takes like 5 seconds Plus with the Quest, S, or WMR headsets not needing the base stations you have a lot for flexibility where that 6 feet is.
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Nov 22, 2019 20:19
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Baronjutter posted:I'd play the poo poo out of a Father Grigori game where you design and place traps and poo poo all over Ravenholm. Valve should revive the "Return to Ravenholm" episode and have that be the main gimmick, while also including some beta elements from the time Ravenholm was Phys/Traptown
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Nov 22, 2019 20:39
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:The space requirements aren't that bad. You need a minimum area of about 6 ft by 6 ft. I have barely that and have had no problem with room scale stuff. Sure I have to move my coffee table to the side to get it but whatever it takes like 5 seconds The issue for me and probably a lot of others is that my PC is at a desk which is in a fairly inclosed space. Having a 6x6 space would mean I have to drag my PC to a different room every time I want to use it.
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Nov 22, 2019 20:48
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You don't need 6 feet by 6 feet for the majority of titles. You just need enough space to stand and wave your arms about without hitting anything. I'm temporarily living in a place where my VR space is like, 5 feet by 5 feet. I've been able to play all the new titles.
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Nov 22, 2019 20:56
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https://twitter.com/Gt118/status/1197601478778732546 The perfect posture for VR
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Nov 22, 2019 21:30
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The Bee posted:So you're saying I won't need to drop 1000 down on the full Index + controller + headset set-up, and can still enjoy the VR experience for Alyx just fine. Yeah buy a $400 Oculus and call it a day dude
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Nov 22, 2019 22:22
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abigserve posted:My point isn't that VR won't succeed in the long run, it's way too early to tell, but it is extremely early days for this stuff and to bolt such a recognisable franchise onto it at these early days is pretty risky and tbh I don't have a lot of faith that Valve won't quietly discontinue their VR projects if proto-hl3 fails to become the killer app for Index. No, it really isn't. This was the extremely early days of VR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ChUFeWn1FI It worked, completely. I played through all of HL2 in VR. But it wasn't great. That was fully 6 years ago. SIX YEARS they've had to work out the kinks. People not into VR don't realize, but... we've made huge strides in the last six years. VR isn't nearly what it was six years ago. It is established now.
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Nov 22, 2019 22:28
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Isn't the next generation of consoles aiming to launch with VR? I feel like we're at the end of its development era, and at the start of its standardization era, with a title like this priming people for the AAA level drops and a push to get a cheap functional VR set out.
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Nov 22, 2019 22:43
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The future of VR is in the living room, not your office.
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Nov 22, 2019 22:57
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For people who stopped following state of VR around the Vive/Oculus 2016 era, this review could be useful in showing what Index brought to the table: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6p1e_JSol8s&t=212s
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Nov 22, 2019 23:04
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VR is kind of established now but there's still plenty of obvious pain points that need to be improved on. Resolution, relative to what your eyes are capable of, is still very limited, even on the Index. Force feedback/haptics are very simple. FoV still leaves out a lot of peripheral vision. On PC you can good graphics but it's wired (usually), the Quest is wireless but the graphical quality is more limited. And most importantly, no smell-o-vision. What the gently caress Valve, how could you leave out the most important sense??
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Nov 22, 2019 23:06
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Will they ever solve how your hands are always twitching and vibrating in VR? I guess that's just a problem with the sensor sensitivity tracking you hands, but everyone always looks like they are just a pair of floating hands with severe Parkinsons
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Nov 22, 2019 23:08
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Like, this is the point where I feel we see "Let's put out a killer app and cheap VR headset to try to attract a huge pool of players who then act as mass feedback for the next iteration" and we see genuine good VR sets for most people inside of 5 years.
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Nov 22, 2019 23:10
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Baronjutter posted:Will they ever solve how your hands are always twitching and vibrating in VR? I guess that's just a problem with the sensor sensitivity tracking you hands, but everyone always looks like they are just a pair of floating hands with severe Parkinsons Not sure what you've seen where its always twitching. PSVR move controllers are poo poo, everybody knows it, Sony included. But with most existing trackers its pretty accurate? The other half of it is software can do smoothing. Just like input smoothing on mouse, but even more necessary in VR. No reason not to have that, and even better make it configurable.
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Nov 22, 2019 23:16
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Might be worth mentioning that Oculus exclusives can be played on other headsets using software like Revive.
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Nov 22, 2019 23:52
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I'm torn between Oculus and Index. I like the sound of the wirefree experience by the Oculus but think Index is the superior build. Idk
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Nov 22, 2019 23:56
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Baronjutter posted:Will they ever solve how your hands are always twitching and vibrating in VR? I guess that's just a problem with the sensor sensitivity tracking you hands, but everyone always looks like they are just a pair of floating hands with severe Parkinsons As Zaphod said, outside of the PSVR, motion controller tracking is dead on with sub mm precision. You may be seeing video of people playing and notice all the small movements that the player isn't because... thats how much their actual hands are jittering around. Some games also do things like apply smoothing and sort of artificial weight or other things that disconnect your real hands exact position and movements when holding of using objects. If you used VR though, that wasn't PSVR and it was jittering a bunch, then something was really wrong with the setup. If I have one criticism of HL:A though its, yeah the floating hands thing. Its so much better when games give you a body, that I just get disappointed seeing their flagship do the floating hands, especially when it feels like more and more games are giving you a body. They often do just the hands because one of the early principles people thought they had to follow was not to show anything that wasn't tracked because the disconnect will break immersion. Since only your hands were tracked, thats all they'd show, but, turns out for a great many people with good IK, what disconnects there are, is a lot better than the disconnect of just seeing floating hands. Glenn Quebec posted:I'm torn between Oculus and Index. I like the sound of the wirefree experience by the Oculus but think Index is the superior build. Idk The 'wirefree' experience is only with the quest, and only with either running games on the headset itself (which HL:A most definitely won't be), or using a 3rd party desktop streaming app, which, is going to add latency and compression and is dependent on your wifi hardware. Basically they're all going to be wired when it comes to HL:A, so don't make that your deciding criteria. Also, yeah, the Index is definitely a more powerful headset without question, something would be really wrong if it wasn't at two and a half times the price! Oculus (s or quest) is cheaper by far, has an easier setup with not having to mount tracking devices on your walls, Index is pricier and more of a setup, but higher resolution, better built in audio etc. Swings and roundabouts.
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Nov 23, 2019 00:22
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Tom Guycot posted:floating hands That did jump out, but I wasn't really sure how "serious" VR games handle that. My mind jumped to the goofier ones I've seen on youtube where part of the fun is snaking your hands and arms into ridiculously unrealistic positions as the game tries to cope, so all of a sudden disembodied hands seemed maybe not that bad.
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Nov 23, 2019 00:28
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Glenn Quebec posted:I'm torn between Oculus and Index. I like the sound of the wirefree experience by the Oculus but think Index is the superior build. Idk Index is obviously the superior build, yes. The prices are pretty different, so it's to be expected. One of more than twice as expensive than the other...
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Nov 23, 2019 00:29
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TheCoach posted:This basically means I have to change the apartment I live in on top of buying a capable enough GPU and then the VR thing to play a game I might not like in the end. This game, like many other VR games, offers a seated mode where you just need enough room to lean a bit. And these days, requiring external sensors is the exception, not the rule, being entirely relegated to the most expensive options on the market with everything below $800 now relying entirely on cameras within the HMD itself for tracking. And some of those can be had for as little as $150. As for requiring a decent GPU... I mean, yeah. That happens with PC games. The minimum recommended cards are midrange from a few years ago, which doesn't strike me as excessive for a major release coming out in 2020 regardless of VR.
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Nov 23, 2019 00:31
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Legit think if alyx had full arms, people out of the loop on VR would've been more impressed
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Nov 23, 2019 00:35
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:The space requirements aren't that bad. You need a minimum area of about 6 ft by 6 ft. I have barely that and have had no problem with room scale stuff. Sure I have to move my coffee table to the side to get it but whatever it takes like 5 seconds Yeah I super love that my dell headset actually sets up the room barrier with what I can only assume is magic and keeps track of it.
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Nov 23, 2019 00:36
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Captain Hygiene posted:That did jump out, but I wasn't really sure how "serious" VR games handle that. My mind jumped to the goofier ones I've seen on youtube where part of the fun is snaking your hands and arms into ridiculously unrealistic positions as the game tries to cope, so all of a sudden disembodied hands seemed maybe not that bad. I think devs have generally settled on on disembodied hands because arms tend to glitch out, it's hard to anticipate how the joints behave. Supergreatfriend recently did a playthrough of Here They Lie that has full-body stuff: Hands, arms, shoulders, feet... even your own reflection in a mirror. Fairly impressive for a VR game from several years back.
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Nov 23, 2019 00:58
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Leaving this here for anyone that wants a budget hmd that can play this game, the Microsoft ones in general aren't great but the Samsung Odyssey is good at this price https://twitter.com/Wario64/status/1198035259809353728 homeless snail fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Nov 23, 2019 |
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Nov 23, 2019 02:49
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Index is a full fledged surround sound home theater system. Expensive, some setup, takes up quite a bit of space and non-portable but unsurpassed in terms of quality. Rift S and Quest (connected to a PC) are like a good sound bar. A bit pricey but still affordable, very little setup and convenient and decent but not exceptional quality. WMR is a dinky boombox. Cheap, kind of lovely but it does work. I'd probably recommend going for the Rift S/Quest if at all possible but not everyone is flush with cash so I guess it'll do.
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Nov 23, 2019 03:55
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ErrEff posted:I think devs have generally settled on on disembodied hands because arms tend to glitch out, it's hard to anticipate how the joints behave. Supergreatfriend recently did a playthrough of Here They Lie that has full-body stuff: Hands, arms, shoulders, feet... even your own reflection in a mirror. Fairly impressive for a VR game from several years back. Thanks, that was pretty interesting to see. It's more interesting than expected, especially from a few years back, but it also has some of the wonkiness I figured Valve might be trying to avoid.
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Nov 23, 2019 04:01
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I like IK bodies in VR, but they're not necessary to be immersive and it's understandable that Valve wanted to avoid the inevitable jank they create. Having it as an option would be nice though, Contractors does this.
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Nov 23, 2019 04:07
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I got an Vive but lost my giant "playspace" when moving. I wonder how movement is going to work? Point and teleport? It seems like they're supporting all sorts of playspace (sitting down, standing only, room scale)
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Nov 23, 2019 05:07
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Be cool if a VR game gave you dialogue options and you could read them out to an NPC
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Nov 23, 2019 05:07
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Rabid Snake posted:I got an Vive but lost my giant "playspace" when moving. I wonder how movement is going to work? Point and teleport? It seems like they're supporting all sorts of playspace (sitting down, standing only, room scale) 
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Nov 23, 2019 05:13
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Captain Hygiene posted:Thanks, that was pretty interesting to see. It's more interesting than expected, especially from a few years back, but it also has some of the wonkiness I figured Valve might be trying to avoid. Theres some wonkiness, but honestly its just more wonky to have floating hands. With good IK like in Lone Echo, it just adds so much to feeling like being in the world, and most of the bigger VR games to come out recently, or coming out in the next 6 months give you arms. Its just one of the few conservative traits of early VR I wish they hadn't done, certainly not a big deal but it would have been nice and its a bit of a surprise considering their cooperation with the Boneworks team.
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Nov 23, 2019 05:18
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Some rich goon should buy Pimax 8k X which is the most advanced headset with the widest fov but makes you look like an idiot hammer shark and report back, tia
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Nov 23, 2019 07:34
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Palpek posted:Some rich goon should buy Pimax 8k X which is the most advanced headset with the widest fov but makes you look like an idiot hammer shark and report back, tia Pfff, thats nothin'. If you aren't willing to spend $6,000 on an XTAL headset, you might as well not even use VR. 
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Nov 23, 2019 08:10
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Tom Guycot posted:Pfff, thats nothin'. If you aren't willing to spend $6,000 on an XTAL headset, you might as well not even use VR. 
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Nov 23, 2019 13:07
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Tom Guycot posted:Pfff, thats nothin'. If you aren't willing to spend $6,000 on an XTAL headset, you might as well not even use VR. The difference is that the XTAL is high-end business gear, while the Pimax is a worthless, broken piece of poo poo.
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Nov 23, 2019 13:39
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