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Owlbear Camus posted:Cowardice. They should have come out and said "please consider the most recent novel a "what if" story and as an apology your Nissa-Chandra playmats are now all canon." Wizards has historically been terrible about LGBTQ inclusion. The big D&D setting, the Forgotten Realms, has always been queer inclusive, but Wizards' editorial staff wouldn't actually let the writers print any of that stuff. So you instead end up with representation hidden here and there - oh hey this priest has a different first name and pronouns between these two books, wink wink. poo poo like that.
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Nov 22, 2019 20:42
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:Well it's not like they can errata the book I mean, they have several options. They can just say that the author strayed from their intentions for Chandra as a character. It's probably not the truth (I would assume that the author had the blessing of whatever department, to express Chandra's character in that way), but it would be a clean way to throw someone else under the bus and course correct. Even better would be to say that they were wrong, and that they were deciding that part isn't canon. It's their universe, and while it might be kind of inelegant to retcon part of the book, it is the right response to these valid criticisms. Their apology wasn't the worst, but it's missing the part where they state, unambiguously, that Chandra is gay, and will be represented that way in the future. WotC's LGBTQ inclusions have been kind of strange, to me. I kind of still saw them as being a very inclusive company (in many ways, more than just in terms of LGBTQ). They went through a pretty good stretch between Alesha, Ashiok, Narset, and Kaya (I'm probably missing some characters), but since then, there hasn't been much, as far as I could tell. This is pretty disappointing, now  . I wonder if there were only one or two advocates in the company that have left since then, or something. I say all of this with the caveat that I'm a straight white male, though, and maybe WotC has never been as good about this stuff than I have the impression of.
ShadeofBlue fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Nov 22, 2019 |
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Nov 22, 2019 21:01
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:Well it's not like they can errata the book you're right, wotc doesn't do errata like that they'll just have to ban it
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Nov 22, 2019 21:17
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Ban the loving book WotC
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Nov 22, 2019 21:18
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I'd be down to ban the book, apparently it isn't very good in general Actually, ban all but veraska and Jace loving, I'm cool with that
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Nov 22, 2019 21:21
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When Doug Beyer openly said he didn't like what happened in Forsaken I dared to get my hopes up. I didn't think they'd retcon that lovely book, but perhaps he and the rest of the team would be more involved in future books and this kind of thing wouldn't happen again. What I got from Doug's post was that it wasn't his call to make and he may or may not have had an actual say in the matter (as did any of the other writers involved with building up Chandra and Nissa). What I got from this post is "haha we messed up biiig oopsie we promise to do better but pls keep buying our stuff" and honestly it makes me feel worse rather than better. Instead of letting the people from creative that the community knows and trusts speak up about their plans for the future, they're using an anonymous corporate voice to tell us a bunch of wishy-washy bullshit.ShadeofBlue posted:WotC's LGBTQ inclusions have been kind of strange, to me. I kind of still saw them as being a very inclusive company (in many ways, more than just in terms of LGBTQ). They went through a pretty good stretch between Alesha, Ashiok, Narset, and Kaya (I'm probably missing some characters), but since then, there hasn't been much, as far as I could tell. This is pretty disappointing, now There were some gay double kings in Theros and more recently we got Ral + Tomik who (according to people who read that dumbass book) are openly loving and supportive of each other without any dumb drama. I also vaguely remember something about Yahenni being nonbinary? There was a decently long stretch of time in which, say what you will about WotC as a company, at least the people on the creative team made a genuine effort when it came to representation. Now it looks like the need to be marketable with assholes is overruling whatever voices they once had.
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Nov 22, 2019 21:28
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Arivia posted:Wizards has historically been terrible about LGBTQ inclusion. The big D&D setting, the Forgotten Realms, has always been queer inclusive, but Wizards' editorial staff wouldn't actually let the writers print any of that stuff. So you instead end up with representation hidden here and there - oh hey this priest has a different first name and pronouns between these two books, wink wink. poo poo like that. High fantasy in general is just awful about this, not to mention its attitude towards race and traditional gender roles. Taking MtG in the context of comparable franchises—D&D, Elder Scrolls, Warcraft, and granddaddy Lord of the Rings—WotC has, in relative terms, made remarkable progress in the past two decades towards inclusion of characters which don't fit the straight white cis-male mold. The LGBTQ representation is lacking, but it is there, and it is well ahead of its contemporaries.
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Nov 22, 2019 22:29
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Doesn’t the book misspell Nissa Revane’s name on the literal first page?
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Nov 22, 2019 22:38
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anyone else gonna forget how to read to protest the bad book?
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Nov 22, 2019 22:46
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ShadeofBlue posted:I mean, they have several options. They can just say that the author strayed from their intentions for Chandra as a character. It's probably not the truth (I would assume that the author had the blessing of whatever department, to express Chandra's character in that way), but it would be a clean way to throw someone else under the bus and course correct. Even better would be to say that they were wrong, and that they were deciding that part isn't canon. It's their universe, and while it might be kind of inelegant to retcon part of the book, it is the right response to these valid criticisms. Their apology wasn't the worst, but it's missing the part where they state, unambiguously, that Chandra is gay, and will be represented that way in the future. That author is many things, but I cannot imagine it was even he had their blessing - my strong suspicion is that he was forced by executive meddling to do that. He wrote much better stuff in the first WAR novel, and Gargoyles was his baby and was remarkably progressive for its era. Of course some people do that then get trapped there, but I don't think this is a case of the author getting what he wanted, based on what I know of him and his work on the first novel. Much more likely is that their new story head, who has apparently a history of being awful, came in between the two books, and was awful. That also explains the disappointment of Doug et al. And their inclusion has been good for basically the Pioneer era - they were even starting to get some flak from idiots for not having new PWers ever be white dudes (disaster!) But of course any decision like that isn't made from, on a corporate level, dedication to moral behavior. Individual people can have genuine convictions about it and it appears that many of the mid-level WOTC staff do, but on the top level it's almost always a mercenary decision, and currently it does well if controversially in the US but flat out bars you from China and Russia. So...
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Nov 22, 2019 22:49
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fadam posted:anyone else gonna forget how to read to protest the bad book? The prose is so bad I'd have to forget most of it in order to enjoy the bad book
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Nov 22, 2019 22:50
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Ultiville posted:The prose is so bad I'd have to forget most of it in order to enjoy the bad book drat what was harvard like?
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Nov 22, 2019 22:53
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GimmickMan posted:There were some gay double kings in Theros and more recently we got Ral + Tomik who (according to people who read that dumbass book) are openly loving and supportive of each other without any dumb drama. I also vaguely remember something about Yahenni being nonbinary? There was a decently long stretch of time in which, say what you will about WotC as a company, at least the people on the creative team made a genuine effort when it came to representation. Now it looks like the need to be marketable with assholes is overruling whatever voices they once had. Ral and Tomik are so gay their art has them holding scraps of cloth from each other's clothes to as keepsakes during the war.
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Nov 22, 2019 22:55
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It's weird because the, "Hire professional external writers to do entire arcs," strategy was working so well. The M20, Dominaria, Wildered quest, and Guild stories were all solid and well above expectations. Then they shat out two novels, having hosed up the release timing on the first one (Remember when Niv Mizzet was killed and to read about it you had to sign up for the Del Rey newsletter? Yeah I don't either), and ruined the climax and conclusion to their whole 3 year effort. lolé
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Nov 22, 2019 23:02
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Sickening posted:Ross believes that China is doing the right thing with their concentration camps. He believes that the Uighurs genocide is their right. sorry my browser was still on this page and i had to publicly lol at this post
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Nov 22, 2019 23:02
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Ross is mostly insane but he's right about one thing, after the revolution professional MTG players are going to be in high demand.
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Nov 22, 2019 23:05
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Bryan Gottlieb made a joke on coverage that they were going to get Ross in the booth to tell everyone the truth about capitalism at the invi
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Nov 22, 2019 23:16
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:It's weird because the, "Hire professional external writers to do entire arcs," strategy was working so well. The M20, Dominaria, Wildered quest, and Guild stories were all solid and well above expectations. Then they shat out two novels, having hosed up the release timing on the first one (Remember when Niv Mizzet was killed and to read about it you had to sign up for the Del Rey newsletter? Yeah I don't either), and ruined the climax and conclusion to their whole 3 year effort. Don't forget how the flavor of the cards depict this long drawn-out urban campaign with lots of refugees and people grieving, and it's literally an afternoon in the book.
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Nov 22, 2019 23:17
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Argas posted:Don't forget how the flavor of the cards depict this long drawn-out urban campaign with lots of refugees and people grieving, and it's literally an afternoon in the book. It kind of makes sense that the Magic story is so bad and stupid (I mean, more than you would expect the entirely extraneous fantasy story for a card game to be) when you consider that one of the VIPs at the company is a grown man who still buys and reads comic books. WotS, and I guess the story for everything in Magic for the past 5 years, feels very influenced by the MCU.
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Nov 22, 2019 23:33
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GimmickMan posted:There were some gay double kings in Theros and more recently we got Ral + Tomik who (according to people who read that dumbass book) are openly loving and supportive of each other without any dumb drama. I also vaguely remember something about Yahenni being nonbinary? There was a decently long stretch of time in which, say what you will about WotC as a company, at least the people on the creative team made a genuine effort when it came to representation. Now it looks like the need to be marketable with assholes is overruling whatever voices they once had. I think all the Aetherborn from Kaladesh were nonbinary or agendered, I forget which (and am also too dumb to know if there's a difference, sorry!)
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Nov 22, 2019 23:47
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For whatever little it's worth, as a queer cis man who dearly wants more/better representation for LGBTQ+ folks across the spectrum, the MTG team has built up a reasonable number of bona fides with me prior to this incident. Alesha, the gay Theros dudes, Ral & Tomik, agender/nonbinary characters, etc. They'll need to make good on this but I have faith, based on that past history, that they can.
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Nov 23, 2019 00:09
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I see WOTC hired Todd Stephens to write their “apology.” Seems like they’re getting rightfully roasted for it. Nice book nerds Also SCG launched their new website and eliminated all free articles apparently. But even if you have premium the site tells you that you don’t and you need to buy premium to view the articles... heh.
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Nov 23, 2019 00:28
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It's especially weird because stuff like Lords of Limited eps are behind the paywall despite the fact you can just go on a podcast player to listen to them
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Nov 23, 2019 01:24
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MikeCrotch posted:It's especially weird because stuff like Lords of Limited eps are behind the paywall despite the fact you can just go on a podcast player to listen to them no they're not, it's the discord that's behind the paywall e: oh i misread what you meant, disregard~~~
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Nov 23, 2019 01:33
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2 great cheating stories. Same store in the early 2000s. The lesson is if you’re a cheater don’t tell your girlfriend because if you cheat on her she’ll call the store and tell them how you cheat magic cards. My friend would always roll a 6 and 20 sided die before cutting his opponents deck of the 6 sided came up even he would just cut the deck around the middle. If it came up odd he would roll the 20 sided and cut that many cards to the bottom. Took about 10 extra seconds to do and no one really cared aside from a couple people thinking it was kinda odd the first time they played him. The only person that was always angry about it was a guy probably 15 years older then us. Like he would huff and puff about how it was a waste of time and bullshit from a little kid. Well it turned out that he would set aside 20 cards and put them in the middle of his deck so that when his deck was cut he would get 10 or so of those cards and always have a great hand and first few draws. His now ex girlfriend called the store because he bragged to her how no one could beat him if they cut his deck in half. I guess an employee watched his hands when he was shuffling and saw him grab a pile of cards out of his cargo shorts and slip it into his deck that was in his other hand. He was a condescending poo poo head and would straight up insult people after he beat them for not having $300 standard decks including us high schoolers who were basically washing dishes and mowing lawns to buy magic cards. I know he got banned because no one liked him and he was a toxic piece of poo poo. Hopefully he blew his brains out that night. The second cheater would always have 2 common cards of each color sleeved up for sealed and would add the appropriate cards to his deck in the bathroom after construction. Think like 5 general spells and 5 efficient creatures. Shock/negate/doom blade/pacifism/giant growth and 3/3 flying/first strike/trample for 4 or whatever. So I guess his ex called and said they were either in his hoodie pocket or cargo shorts pocket. The store owner pulled him aside and told him that he needed to empty his pockets on suspicion of cheating. He found the cards in there. I was there for that one. He was banned from playing limited events and who knows if he ever came back to play or just went somewhere else. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 23, 2019 01:37
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“Sketchy guys who runs a comic book store wants to check your pockets” “No thanks” My plan was spoiled!
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Nov 23, 2019 01:41
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The American Dream posted:Hopefully he blew his brains out that night. Jfc this is a bit much for cheating at a children's card game and being an annoying child.
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Nov 23, 2019 01:49
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suicidesteve posted:Jfc this is a bit much for cheating at a children's card game and being an annoying child. I was the child. He was the adult that would mock children because they couldn’t afford multiple playsets of $10-$15 cards when minimum wage was $5 and would be a general rear end in a top hat to people he felt were below him (it was everyone).
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Nov 23, 2019 01:56
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The American Dream posted:I was the child. He was the adult that would mock children because they couldn’t afford multiple playsets of $10-$15 cards when minimum wage was $5 and would be a general rear end in a top hat to people he felt were below him (it was everyone). I'm glad you grew up to be such a well adjusted person. You're truly an example to us all for overcoming hardships.
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Nov 23, 2019 02:21
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DangerDongs posted:I keep receiving an error when selecting any deck to play on Arena other than my U/W control "deck validation error" this is just wotc trying to nudge you towards the best archetype
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Nov 23, 2019 03:42
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Uhhh sooo Standard UW control seems good
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Nov 23, 2019 03:53
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PJOmega posted:I'm glad you grew up to be such a well adjusted person. You're truly an example to us all for overcoming hardships. Are you upset with him over the fact he dislikes cheaters? What are you doing dude? Hyperbole anger will not be tolerated on these here forums!!!
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Nov 23, 2019 04:47
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Koirhor posted:Uhhh sooo Standard UW control seems good yeah it's amazing, It feels completely impossible to turn that game around, sometimes as early as T3
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Nov 23, 2019 04:53
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Koirhor posted:Uhhh sooo Standard UW control seems good Is it real, draw go control or is it the shameful, tapout nonsense with win conditions they've been calling control? I need a list either way.
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Nov 23, 2019 04:55
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suicidesteve posted:Is it real, draw go control or is it the shameful, tapout nonsense with win conditions they've been calling control? I need a list either way. It plays a Time Wipe, Teferix8, Mass Manipulation, and the 3 drop oblivion ring and then the rest is counter spells and Borrowers and instant speed draw
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Nov 23, 2019 05:10
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Where's this unbeatable UW control deck putting up results? I'm looking at the 5-0 decks from Thursday and there aren't any matching that list. I want it to be true because I'll be laughing if they have to ban T3feri as well.
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Nov 23, 2019 06:05
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I'm not sure how you play 8 Teferis in standard but this is everything i feared would come to passLifeLynx posted:Where's this unbeatable UW control deck putting up results? I'm looking at the 5-0 decks from Thursday and there aren't any matching that list. I want it to be true because I'll be laughing if they have to ban T3feri as well. literally the first one on the page when i looked at it
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Nov 23, 2019 06:06
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fadam posted:It kind of makes sense that the Magic story is so bad and stupid (I mean, more than you would expect the entirely extraneous fantasy story for a card game to be) when you consider that one of the VIPs at the company is a grown man who still buys and reads comic books. WotS, and I guess the story for everything in Magic for the past 5 years, feels very influenced by the MCU. Comic books whip rear end though
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Nov 23, 2019 06:14
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ungulateman posted:I'm not sure how you play 8 Teferis in standard but this is everything i feared would come to pass I'm tired and was looking for a deck with 8 Teferis in it because the post said "Teferix8".
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Nov 23, 2019 06:18
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Turns out Fblthp is great tech against opponents playing adventure cards. I keep having people play the spell part against him and then pause after it goes to the gy instead of to exile. Well "keep" is a little strong. It's happened twice now.
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Nov 23, 2019 06:21
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