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Jay-V posted:This topic got me to read up on IRL Nixon, had no idea about the Spiro Agnew stuff before today. Ford's presidency is truly a thermodynamic miracle. Heck, you saying that made me look up Agnew, and I had always just assumed he resigned around the same time as Nixon due to Watergate as well. 
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Nov 23, 2019 04:58
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Speculation not based on previews because I don't watch them: The thugs are there to gently caress up LG's place as an alibi in case Angela says he's 7K and sold her out. They'll rough him up a little too but he accepts it knowing it's to keep his cover from being blown.
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Nov 23, 2019 06:32
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Jay-V posted:Potentially dumb q. I'm not entirely sure why Keene showed Looking Glass the Veidt recording? Seems like "I'd have to kill Angela and her family" and "No one will believe I'm 7K if you tell them" are two strong enough arguments on their own to force LG into having Angela arrested. e: it also kinda takes away from Laurie's plot potential, cause there were a few moments where there was talk about the squid event and I thought "oh poo poo she's the only one who knows, she's carried that for 30 years, wonder if that's gonna come in big at some point" but now it's just "welp it's her and I guess however many government officials it takes to keep the conspiracy going." My Lovely Horse fucked around with this message at 11:32 on Nov 23, 2019 |
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Nov 23, 2019 11:27
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Jay-V posted:they may fail but seems like they TRY to kill him, which also seems inconsistent with "broken" theory -- like if they've broken his will, he should be easy to recruit, idk. Someone breaks once, they'll break again. And someone who is dead can't talk.
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Nov 23, 2019 11:48
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Wade still has the klan robes at his house. Wonder if he'll end up framed as 7th K (assuming he isn't murdered)
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Nov 23, 2019 15:20
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I dunno, Don Johnson is about half a foot taller than Tim Blake Nelson so one assumes that the former’s robes would be obviously too large for the latter.
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Nov 23, 2019 18:25
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My Lovely Horse posted:Been following this show and I think it's generally stellar but I don't get why there's a Veidt recording at all. In the comic the squid was so heavily implied to be intended as the trigger of a self-sustaining cultural shift towards harmony, and such a big deal was made out of keeping the background a secret, that a retcon towards Veidt planning all along to create an deep government conspiracy from it including his continuous input via tape just feels like... not getting the point. Especially when you've got Rorschach's journal right there as a potential plot device to reveal the hoax. I'd even say it's a similar level of not getting the point as replacing the squid with Dr. Manhattan. It was a bit of a disappointing moment for me cause the show has its poo poo together so well otherwise. I think they certainly got the point I just think they chose the approach that realistically it would be incredibly naive for Veidt to assume that this was the only thing that needed to be done to truly create and sustain this harmonious future. The squid was just the inciting incident and I think it was pretty wise of the show to acknowledge that despite the squid ending the cold war and "uniting" the planet, that humanity and all of our problems are much deeper than that.
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Nov 23, 2019 18:49
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I feel like they're also double and tripple-dipping on the Black Freighter being an allegory for Veidt's story. I mean we have him literally trying to get home using corpses in his current prison situation... But more than that, we see in the original story that Veidt does doubt his own actions when he asks Manhattan if it all turned out okay. I think you could argue that Veidt's message to Redford was indeed a mistake as it created evidence that might undo his hopes and dreams, effectively the Redford tapes become the cause of what he tried to stop. I'm also calling at one point that we'll see alternate versions of the tapes with him addressing President Gore, President Dukakis, President Biden, President Dole, President Eastwood, President Jackson, etc. cementing that Veidt is and always has been bullshit.
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Nov 23, 2019 19:13
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I’m personally not bothered by the idea that Ozy would record an incriminating tape. After all, Nixon never got caught in this universe. Again, if you do some light reading on Agnew and Nixon’s resignations, you’ll realize a LOT of the common sense we have today wrt avoiding conspiracy and corruption charges was established AFTER (or because of) Watergate.
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Nov 23, 2019 20:43
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I think people are missing the possibility that the puppy was not put into an incinerator but an atomizer, and that in episode 7 we'll see the reveal of the incredible Doggy Manhattan.
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Nov 23, 2019 20:49
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I guess I can just about see a scenario where Veidt starts having doubts after talking to Dr. Manhattan and does the conspiracy tapes as a hotfix, but it's explicitly presented as part of the original plan. mostly I feel like a standard government conspiracy straight out of a Bill Hicks routine is too regular a feature for Ozymandias' Gordian Knot Solution.
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Nov 23, 2019 21:36
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My favorite kinds of solutions are the kind involving false flag psychic interstellar vagina squids
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Nov 23, 2019 21:44
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Honestly, I'm kind of baffled that people still walk away from Watchmen with the question of if what Veidt did was right... because I think the book has a very clear point of view on Veidt's actions.
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Nov 23, 2019 21:56
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My Lovely Horse posted:I guess I can just about see a scenario where Veidt starts having doubts after talking to Dr. Manhattan and does the conspiracy tapes as a hotfix, but it's explicitly presented as part of the original plan. Nearly the entire world united to defeat the Axis in WW2 and in the long run it directly lead to the exact situation Veidt is attempting to fix in Watchmen so I dont think its that far fetched to assume his plan was more involved than "drop squid onto planet and humanity sings kumbaya for eternity". If Veidt is some super genius I figure he wouldn't be that short sighted and naive. I think its pretty genius to guarantee the longevity of his plan by essentially blackmailing the US President and government into helping sustain it. Hes betting on Americas own self interest to maintain the peace and not on human nature, which is pretty wise IMO.
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Nov 23, 2019 22:03
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Even if the truth behind the squid is revealed now, it sounds like east-west tensions have eased off enough that a cop can dress up as a communist and still be on the force. Everyone would label Veidt a terrorist and mass murderer, but the nuclear doomsday clock wouldn't move any closer to midnight because of it.
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Nov 23, 2019 22:25
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One thing that's interested me, compared to the original Watchmen, is how the show seems to be a little bit more focused on larger institutions and factions rather than solely the characters. I mean, don't get me wrong, this is obviously a show centered around its characters. But even from the very beginning, the characters were part of larger factional clashes. Redford v. Nixon. The police vs. the 7K vs. the US Government vs. wealthy billionaire (and some might not be versus but in cahoots, but in ways even the participants might not know?). It reminds me of the Wire and early GoT seasons in that respect, where characters are products, not only of their personal upbringings, but of being on different sides of larger sociological forces. I feel like the original Watchmen was much more about the characters vs. themselves but also with the US government and its politics as a larger backdrop. It feels telling to me that the first issue of Watchmen was focused on the question of "Who killed the Comedian?", while the first episode of Watchmen focused on the question of "We know who killed the Chief(?), but why did he do it?" But maybe I'm misremembering?
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Nov 23, 2019 22:42
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ymgve posted:Even if the truth behind the squid is revealed now, it sounds like east-west tensions have eased off enough that a cop can dress up as a communist and still be on the force. Is Red Scare not actually meant to be Russian? It's the same argument, a Russian working on a US police force indicates that the reduced tensions have remained, but I didn't think he was taking the piss with the accent, track suit and zero-effort mask.
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Nov 23, 2019 22:54
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I read somewhere he's supposed to be part of some cop exchange program?
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Nov 23, 2019 22:55
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Timeless Appeal posted:I feel like they're also double and tripple-dipping on the Black Freighter being an allegory for Veidt's story. I mean we have him literally trying to get home using corpses in his current prison situation...
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Nov 24, 2019 00:55
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 i think this shot was literally recreated in the space suit scene
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Nov 24, 2019 01:10
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Hell yes! My original "Veidt's story is analogous to Black Freighter" argument is winning now!
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Nov 24, 2019 02:56
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That's, uh, not such a radical take.
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Nov 24, 2019 04:28
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beanieson posted:Space Veidt? Confirmed.
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Nov 24, 2019 04:52
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feedmyleg posted:That's, uh, not such a radical take. Yeah: 
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Nov 24, 2019 16:41
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Alhazred posted:Yeah: It’s funny we read so much into it when that was literally just a flag that Lindelof was planting for us to say “hayyyy guys this is how this story will function in parallel with what’s going on in Tulsa”
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Nov 24, 2019 17:20
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Weedle posted:I dunno, Don Johnson is about half a foot taller than Tim Blake Nelson so one assumes that the former’s robes would be obviously too large for the latter. Runt wears elevator shoes! Btw this show is good. Never considered that issue 1 of Action Comics and Orson Welles' 'War of the Worlds' broadcast happened in the same year, that's a pretty auspicious coincidence. Looking into it, WotW aired on October 30th and Veidt's squid scheme was only a few days off, on Nov 2nd.
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Nov 24, 2019 17:46
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Hey Chief posted:
It's a thermodynamic miracle.
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Nov 24, 2019 19:01
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I really liked that the show proved that it is possible to have the giant squid and make it look terrifying and not silly.
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Nov 24, 2019 19:03
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Alhazred posted:It's a thermodynamic miracle. At least.
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Nov 24, 2019 21:11
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Alhazred posted:I really liked that the show proved that it is possible to have the giant squid and make it look terrifying and not silly. I think it does look silly, in the comic and the show, but that just makes it more terrifying. Because imagine the incongruity of seeing something silly like that, but having to take it seriously because it just killed everyone around you in a blink of an eye. Kind of like how the original Xenomorph design was just like a humanoid figure with a human penis for a head. But imagining seeing that stalking you in real life is terrifying. Later, they made it more realistic by toning down the phallic aspects and making it move more like an insect or a dinosaur. But to me, making it more mundanely realistic made it less scary. Weedle posted:I dunno, Don Johnson is about half a foot taller than Tim Blake Nelson so one assumes that the former’s robes would be obviously too large for the latter. They weren't Judd's (Don Johnson's) robes anyway, the implication seems to be that they belonged to one of his ancestors. Lord Krangdar fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Nov 24, 2019 |
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Nov 24, 2019 22:17
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Lord Krangdar posted:I think it does look silly, in the comic and the show, but that just makes it more terrifying. Because imagine the incongruity of seeing something silly like that, but having to take it seriously because it just killed everyone around you in a blink of an eye. Isn't this the basis of a lot of Japanese monsters? I'm thinking of how Shin Godzilla starts off as a bizarre, googly eye thing that nonetheless bleeds radioactive blood.
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Nov 24, 2019 22:25
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I love the line "Nothing is hopeless, not while theres life" coming from a guy who's more known for going on about dog corpses.Ugly In The Morning posted:I wouldn't say Rorshach was passionless, he cared a shitload about his sense of justice and morality. It's just that sense of justice and morality was so alien and warped. You don't tie someone up in a burning house without caring. He certainly had passions but he definitely displays blunted affect at times.
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Nov 24, 2019 22:29
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The safe was behind Captain Metropolis's "painting of a white horse". Is that the painting Judd had?
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Nov 25, 2019 03:05
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When the last episode ends on a cliffhanger, then the show needs to address it at the start of the next episode. If we are supposed to care about the story then the show needs to address the story more, and jerk itself off over its zaniness less.
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Nov 25, 2019 03:19
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yo this is the best episode of anything I've seen in a long-rear end time
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Nov 25, 2019 03:44
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Arist posted:yo this is the best episode of anything I've seen in a long-rear end time Dang that episode did not disappoint
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Nov 25, 2019 04:07
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Hooded Justice: Secret Origins was amazing. When I saw the preview last week I was kind of dreading a flashback episode that was just there to deliver exposition, but the whole thing was mesmerizing and incredible.
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Nov 25, 2019 04:10
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The Human Crouton posted:When the last episode ends on a cliffhanger, then the show needs to address it at the start of the next episode. If we are supposed to care about the story then the show needs to address the story more, and jerk itself off over its zaniness less. Nah, I didn't care a single bit about anything about the cliffhanger around 10 minutes into this episode, and it was the best episode so far.
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Nov 25, 2019 04:13
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The Human Crouton posted:When the last episode ends on a cliffhanger, then the show needs to address it at the start of the next episode. If we are supposed to care about the story then the show needs to address the story more, and jerk itself off over its zaniness less. nah
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Nov 25, 2019 04:17
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Good ep, obviously Will = HJ was pretty well-trodden theory territory but I really liked his story. Noting here that the same eye/cyclops symbol used by the KKK in this ep was drawn on a door in the abandoned department store in ep 5. Might just be a symbol representing the entire KKK, or 7K's plans may be a continuation of this mesmerism scheme.
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Nov 25, 2019 04:18
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