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Midig
Apr 6, 2016

I mean, that is sort of unavoidable in the sense that full elven society is based on alienation from other races, as opposed to half elves, but I also think that there can be some unique views on magic, religion, etc. that are very strange. I think Elder Scrolls is quite good at differentiating elves without making one of them wholly evil or good, nor peaceful with humans.

I guess I could make them quite fascinated in certain subjects. Knowing everything about a specific thing as a hobby and being enthusiastically interested, but also a bit weird about human society. Almost as if someone is incredibly fascinated by your burial rituals, talking about them like they might go out of fashion soon while you think about all the family you had to deal with losing. They might not even care about this generation, talking about how events that unfold now will affect future generations, etc.

Midig fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Nov 26, 2019

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Gharbad the Weak
Feb 23, 2008

This too good for you.

Midig posted:

I thought elves settled the land by the aid of their goddess, who helped them escape an old land that was befallen by evil. The land was filled with mist and darkness. They were, however, masters of magic, and would eventually connect the moon and the sun with their realm/land, etc. In this way, the sun and the moon are not necessarily existing orbiting mass. But a sort of phase of magic through another realm concentrating power. Same with the stars. The realms connect to these powers through constructs, huge towers hidden by old magic of mist obscuring and protecting it.

They shaped the world as they liked and they approved of it as well as their patron gods. They were kind but cautious of new races such as dwarves and humans. But humans were seen as a threat and through their experiments with magic to combat them, came upon foul magic through their not so noble intentions to wipe out humans.

The evil from the previous world was of their making. Having gained political control of this world with their atrocities, they're trying to keep the others in line by shaping the telling of history, so that, if they were to unite against the elves, it will be too late to stop this world's corruption.

The foul magic used against the humans wasn't them simply being ignoble, it was a return to form.

Midig
Apr 6, 2016

You mean, they are trying to corrupt the world or that they have done so before and plan to do it again and move on?

Gharbad the Weak
Feb 23, 2008

This too good for you.

Midig posted:

You mean, they are trying to corrupt the world or that they have done so before and plan to do it again and move on?

Yes.

Edit: This is a personal vendetta against elves.

Kaysette
Jan 5, 2009

~*Boston makes me*~
~*feel good*~

:wrongcity:

Pinwiz11 posted:

Yeah, yeah, the soul knife. We've all seen it.

Chidi's perception probably wouldn't spot a stealthed soul knife. Pretty sure he dumped Wisdom.

Midig
Apr 6, 2016

I personally think that elves were the first who were thirsty for demonic magic and developed necromancy to combat humans since their lesser numbers meant they had to mitigate casualties in war along with not being so keen on dying in war when you can live forever. In fact, just their longevity was enough for them to dismiss human suffering as just a temporary blight, necessary to keep elven society from being overrun.

I think dwarves, however, might have been the best at oaths and curses. First paladins, a particularly powerful dwarf, vowed that a faction of elves, whom he saw as cruel and warmongering would do nothing but hunger for war and cause fear, becoming orcs.

Infinite Karma
Oct 23, 2004
Good as dead





Elves:

-Are the only remaining ancient race from prehistory when the gods warred with the titans, the giants warred with the dragons, the druids warred with the far realms. Were they servants of more powerful beings, or a force of nature in its own right?

-Seem aloof because they literally don't want anything, they already have or can make whatever they want themselves. When you live for thousands of years, you don't want to keep replacing low quality poo poo. If an elf leaves elf paradise, it's because they finally found something that they need and don't already have, which is very rare

-Treat other mortal races like pets. Some think they're cute, some think they're annoying, some think they're gross id-driven animals. They might even love and care for a human like it was an idiot child... but they would never think of one as an intellectual or emotional equal

-Did some bad stuff to reality on a planar, metaphysical level, and nobody even knows that things used to be different

KingKalamari
Aug 24, 2007

Fuzzy dice, bongos in the back
My ship of love is ready to attack
My solution to the Elf problem in the campaign setting I've been working on was to just remove the humans from the equation!

Humans are the mythical fore-runner race who achieved things modern Elves can only gape at in awe, and are the ones who created all the "almost human except for BLAH" people that're running around and Elves are basically just the human stand-ins, only they have pointy ears.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015

17th Separate Kryvyi Rih Tank Brigade named after Konstantin Pestushko
Look to my coming on the first light of the fifth sixth some day

Syrinxx posted:

For the new year I'm planning on establishing a noob Adventurer's League table at the local shop with the specific intention of (1) bringing in new players to a low stress table and (2) getting some more DM experience myself.

Anyone have experience doing this, maybe have some favorite simple AL modules to run, and methods to keep ultranerds/rules lawyers from making GBS threads up the table?

My experience with random groups is that dealing with people like those is a mix of style and knowing how to roll with things politely but firmly.

For style first it comes down to acknowledging that you're playing a game with rules, and sometimes those rules are bad/dumb. This is fine! You're not a game designer, so you needn't concern yourself with houseruling every little thing that you feel is wrong with the system - if the people who wrote the system didn't do their jobs properly, that's on them, not on you. As a DM you've already got a lot on your plate just wrangling the herd of cats, so you shouldn't let yourself feel compelled to contest the rules or their quasi-official interpretations unless the rules are meaningfully negatively impacting fun at the table. That is the case where you exercise Rule 0.

Another is that the freeform/mechanics divide is real, and you should avoid cross pollination because that way lies madness. What I mean by this is that the rules, namely the combat rules, describe a (inconsistently but nevertheless) heavily abstracted reality, where player character activities are locked into a fairly inflexible scheme. Accept that when you roll for initiative you're entering an entirely new world, a mini-game within the game that's held together by patchwork and goodwill, that can collapse very easily even on its own. It doesn't need additional poking. Rewarding player "creativity" is hard to do properly within that minigame, so just stick to the rules. Feel free to tell your players to stick to the rules, and why. Keep the pace. OTOH when you're not being strictly engaged with the codified rules, you should feel encouraged to not even roll dice at all - only roll dice when it matters and, if say a player asks if they can roll dice to attempt some activity, if it seems based on their character's background and abilities that they stand a fair chance of just accomplishing the task or the failure state is inconsequential, just let them succeed outright.

Don't be like Mike Mearls making his players roll Perception over and over again until one finally succeeded at picking up the rumor they needed as a quest hook to begin the adventure.

And lastly on dealing with individuals: never stop the game. If someone corrects you on a ruling and it sounds right, just accept it and thank them. Hell, award them Inspiration. If it sounds wrong or you're just not sure, then go with what makes sense to you and just say you'll play it like this for now and check later - whoever disagreed gets Inspiration for their troubles if it turns out you were wrong. That sounds fair, right? What's important is that it's made clear you're handling the game right now, so there's no time for you to pause and look at the books. It's also important that if someone is being disruptive (ie constantly second guessing you, interrupting the session, or bothering/arguing with other players), you raise your hand and tell them in no ambiguous terms "Hey, you're being disruptive by doing X - can you pretty please not?" If someone is insisting on being disruptive, even after that, you say "Hey! I was serious with what I said before - we can talk it over later, but for now I need you to either stop or please leave the table, because *I* am trying to have fun too."

stringless
Dec 28, 2005

keyboard ⌨️​ :clint: cowboy

On that note, I've noticed that Inspiration tends to have a drop off over time. First couple of sessions, hotcakes. But then it starts getting forgotten, a conspicuously empty rectangle on the character sheets. I've been guilty of this as a DM, too, where I just kind of forget there's an easy meta-reward system. And in the last campaign I played in I really noticed it but wasn't going to press the DM on "hey, no inspirations this session? Really? I should have earned one, she should have earned two, and he should have earned at least one" because it felt like a dick move.

Don't know what the solution is and I'm a sample size of one, maybe other tables are better about it.

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc

FFT posted:

On that note, I've noticed that Inspiration tends to have a drop off over time. First couple of sessions, hotcakes. But then it starts getting forgotten, a conspicuously empty rectangle on the character sheets. I've been guilty of this as a DM, too, where I just kind of forget there's an easy meta-reward system. And in the last campaign I played in I really noticed it but wasn't going to press the DM on "hey, no inspirations this session? Really? I should have earned one, she should have earned two, and he should have earned at least one" because it felt like a dick move.

Don't know what the solution is and I'm a sample size of one, maybe other tables are better about it.

You should be starting each session with inspiration, and using it should keep it in people's minds.

kingcom
Jun 23, 2012

FFT posted:

On that note, I've noticed that Inspiration tends to have a drop off over time. First couple of sessions, hotcakes. But then it starts getting forgotten, a conspicuously empty rectangle on the character sheets. I've been guilty of this as a DM, too, where I just kind of forget there's an easy meta-reward system. And in the last campaign I played in I really noticed it but wasn't going to press the DM on "hey, no inspirations this session? Really? I should have earned one, she should have earned two, and he should have earned at least one" because it felt like a dick move.

Don't know what the solution is and I'm a sample size of one, maybe other tables are better about it.

Yeah its a real awkward mechanic to both track, award and its not a big deal to use it. Every session at the end, have everyone vote on someone to get inspiration. Or just give everyone inspiration at the end of the session and make sure people use it constantly and reward people who use it with more inspiration until people get in the habbit of just spending it constantly.

Crumbletron
Jul 21, 2006



IT'S YOUR BOY JESUS, MANE
It tends to get forgotten at my table as well. I liked Edge of the Empire's version of it for that, they were tokens you handed out at the start of each session and when the players flipped one, it went to the DM and vice versa. Not sure how you'd balance that in this game, but I might give it a spin next time I DM a game.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Piell posted:

You should be starting each session with inspiration, and using it should keep it in people's minds.

Yeah one smart thing Pathfinder 2e does is give everyone a Hero Point to start every session, explicitly by the GM awarding them as part of starting the session. That way everyone knows and knows they’ll get used.

Marathanes
Jun 13, 2009

Crumbletron posted:

It tends to get forgotten at my table as well. I liked Edge of the Empire's version of it for that, they were tokens you handed out at the start of each session and when the players flipped one, it went to the DM and vice versa. Not sure how you'd balance that in this game, but I might give it a spin next time I DM a game.

We use inspiration tokens (they're cute little wooden things that hold a d20 in them) and it really helps keep the mechanic in play and in the minds of both the players and the DM.

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc
A page or so back someone mentioned wanting tips on Bladesingers, and here's mine (I played one through level 7).
- You should be using it almost every fight. Two uses per short or long rest means you basically always have it, and even when you don't you're still a wizard.
- "oh you have to be careful you're a wizard with low HP." Nah, you have incredible AC and Shield/Absorb Elements on top of that. You're a very very good tank. There were a good number of times I just stood in a doorway and held off several dudes singlehandedly. Crits are the only thing that you really need to worry about.
- Weapon damage is never going to be much better than cantrips, just use it as cleanup for enemies. The Xanathar weapon cantrips are a small boost.
- Remember you're a wizard. Swording things is fun but other people are going to be better at it. I generally cast a control spell or two at the start of combat and then helped the cleanup.
- If you really want to go swording, Shadow Blade is quite nice.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015

17th Separate Kryvyi Rih Tank Brigade named after Konstantin Pestushko
Look to my coming on the first light of the fifth sixth some day
It's all about Shadow Blade with Elven Accuracy, but you need your friends to have Darkvision because the party's pooped if anyone brings a light.

kingcom
Jun 23, 2012

Something I've noticed but feel like im missing obvious. Does any wotc book actually talk about what an adventurer is? I'm not talking about what a paladin is or a bard but what, as a collective group, adventurers are. What is their place in the world, what they're about etc. Is this talked about somewhere I'm obviously missing? I mean I know what one is and I'd bet most people in the thread could come up with a description or rough mission statement but I don't actually see it talked about anywhere. Did I miss this information?

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

kingcom posted:

Something I've noticed but feel like im missing obvious. Does any wotc book actually talk about what an adventurer is? I'm not talking about what a paladin is or a bard but what, as a collective group, adventurers are. What is their place in the world, what they're about etc. Is this talked about somewhere I'm obviously missing? I mean I know what one is and I'd bet most people in the thread could come up with a description or rough mission statement but I don't actually see it talked about anywhere. Did I miss this information?

This really differs campaign setting to campaign setting and is based off of the particular context in that setting. The clearest version is like you see in the just released Eberron book, where adventurers are a squad organized to serve a particular patron and their interests. (Classically, the answer to this in Basic D&D was "foolhardy people who got together to get rich by going into the scary dungeon in hopes of treasure.") Different settings approach this question in different ways, which is why there's not really one solid answer.

However (and I bet you know where this is going) the Realms in Ed Greenwood's writing has spent a lot of time looking at the cultural ramifications of adventurers, how they fit into larger institutions, their legality, what people think of them and so on. Ed's quick, slightly-sarcastic definition of an adventurer as defined throughout D&D's history is "adventurers go here and there and find or make trouble." Which makes sense as the only collective term that fits the role of adventurers in a D&D game and all the various adventures they have. What Ed has expanded on is going okay, here's the kinds of people who approach adventurers for jobs, here's where they do it and why and what that contextually means (you're basically hiring drunk hooligans to gently caress up someone else's poo poo and all the other poo poo along the way and yeah your poo poo is gonna get hosed up too); here's the ways nations respond to adventurers and try to keep them from being too crazy; here's how adventurers get famous and get tales told about them and how they are thought of in culture and writing and so on and so forth. There's a lot of different sources for that, but a lot of it is contained in a book published in 2012 in anticipation of 5e, Elminster's Forgotten Realms. That's an edition-agnostic, rules-free supplement of just details and inspiration for games set in the Realms (and very adaptable to other settings), and it spends a good amount of time talking about adventurers' day jobs, or what adventurers retiring looks like. Get that, and you'll find your answers.

Syrinxx
Mar 28, 2002

Death is whimsical today

Conspiratiorist posted:

...
And lastly on dealing with individuals: never stop the game. If someone corrects you on a ruling and it sounds right, just accept it and thank them. Hell, award them Inspiration. If it sounds wrong or you're just not sure, then go with what makes sense to you and just say you'll play it like this for now and check later - whoever disagreed gets Inspiration for their troubles if it turns out you were wrong. That sounds fair, right? What's important is that it's made clear you're handling the game right now, so there's no time for you to pause and look at the books. It's also important that if someone is being disruptive (ie constantly second guessing you, interrupting the session, or bothering/arguing with other players), you raise your hand and tell them in no ambiguous terms "Hey, you're being disruptive by doing X - can you pretty please not?" If someone is insisting on being disruptive, even after that, you say "Hey! I was serious with what I said before - we can talk it over later, but for now I need you to either stop or please leave the table, because *I* am trying to have fun too."
Good advice, thank you. I like the idea of giving inspiration both for being corrected, or to a player for just going with the flow if I make an incorrect call. I'm hoping a can make a table that gets to be known as the place to sit for new players, couples, parents with kids, or basically just a safe zone from minmaxing stinknerds arguing about the latest UA. Also my game store has some AL DMs that completely half rear end their sessions with no prep, their only goal to fill 9 seats and get a lot on the tip sheet; I find it annoying so I thought I'd take a crack at it myself.

FFT posted:

On that note, I've noticed that Inspiration tends to have a drop off over time. First couple of sessions, hotcakes. But then it starts getting forgotten, a conspicuously empty rectangle on the character sheets. I've been guilty of this as a DM, too, where I just kind of forget there's an easy meta-reward system.
Same, I've been meaning to buy some obnoxiously colored d20s to hand out as inspiration tokens

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you

Mendrian posted:

One of the things that makes elves boring is a lack of a real culture. Culturally they tend to be "humans, but aloof" or "humans, but haughty" or occasionally, "humans, but with better set designers."

It's rarely clear what they consider tabboo or where their culture causes friction with others. To avoid making them boring do something that makes them at least a little alien and fallible; avoid the "aloof and withdrawn from the world" trope because it's just an excuse to show less of them.

I think Mords Tome of Foes does a pretty good job of explain Elf Culture and views.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

A few pages back, I asked the thread why psionics is always either useless or overpowered, but got no answer. There never seems to be an in-between; why is that?

Tradition. No, seriously: original psionics was just a patch on the rules that was optional, involved sheer random chance to get (though high mental stats helped), and introduced a separate system that only barely mattered to nonpsions and would grind the game to a halt when multiple psionic people started mind-fighting. Oh, but you could affect nonpsionic creatures with one or two powers, including Mind Blast, which works just like the Mind Flayer ability.

Subsequent editions either tried to preserve the “different from all the other systems” feel, which typically led to psionics being overpowered, or tried to make it work like everything else, in which case it was underpowered or worked like 3.5 psionics, which were basically another caster class with some different flavor and a bunch of new spells.

Kung Food
Dec 11, 2006

PORN WIZARD

kingcom posted:

Something I've noticed but feel like im missing obvious. Does any wotc book actually talk about what an adventurer is? I'm not talking about what a paladin is or a bard but what, as a collective group, adventurers are. What is their place in the world, what they're about etc. Is this talked about somewhere I'm obviously missing? I mean I know what one is and I'd bet most people in the thread could come up with a description or rough mission statement but I don't actually see it talked about anywhere. Did I miss this information?

I treat them as if the greater population sees them as mostly a nuisance that people put up with because every now and then a group of em will stop an apocalypse or other great catastrophe. It's just a nature of the realm that random assholes tend to find each other, cause trouble and usually end up dead.

Name Change
Oct 9, 2005


Kung Food posted:

This is some prime late 90's edgelord horseshit. I love it.

This is on the 3.0 Book of Vile Darkness shallow end. Monte Cook is here to teach us that BDSM, which of course is also synonymous with rape, sadomasochism, and criminal insanity, is the root of all evil.

It is probably Monte Cook's worst book in terms of both fluff and mechanics, which is a feat in itself, and if it were written today it would get pilloried off the Internet. If one were to describe its main throughline as anything coherent, it would be something along the lines of what religious conservatives secretly think (and on the salacious end, hope) the metal scene is about.

Most of the player options that aren't completely embarrassing are still mechanically unworkable, like the race posted above, which is just Human mechanically, but edgy. You can also pick spellcaster PrCs that are strictly worse than going 20 core class and far worse than other PrC options. But sometimes you have to rape an animated corpse first.

Name Change fucked around with this message at 06:24 on Nov 26, 2019

Glagha
Oct 13, 2008

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAaaAAAaaAAaAA
AAAAAAAaAAAAAaaAAA
AAAA
AaAAaaA
AAaaAAAAaaaAAAAAAA
AaaAaaAAAaaaaaAA

Technically it says you only have to commit perverted sex acts with an undead. Does that mean if your partner was a vampire who just happened to be into the kink scene when they were alive that'd count?

Edit: The party is giving the wizard the side-eye because the zombies aren't attacking them. "Hey, I met Strahd on FetLife okay don't give me that look"

Glagha fucked around with this message at 06:23 on Nov 26, 2019

Baku
Aug 20, 2005

by Fluffdaddy
That book actually had a couple mechanics I liked, in theory: masochistic spells/items that rewarded you with buffs and poo poo for taking a bunch of damage, and a PRC with a bunch of powers that let you choose another target for an attack and (eventually) a spell that just hit you. Both of those could be a fun character to play.

They aren't good rules in BOVD, though.

Name Change
Oct 9, 2005


...the character gains dread powers...

...a +1 circumstance bonus on saving throws...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lzC0aIVFvw

kingcom
Jun 23, 2012

Arivia posted:

This really differs campaign setting to campaign setting and is based off of the particular context in that setting. The clearest version is like you see in the just released Eberron book, where adventurers are a squad organized to serve a particular patron and their interests. (Classically, the answer to this in Basic D&D was "foolhardy people who got together to get rich by going into the scary dungeon in hopes of treasure.") Different settings approach this question in different ways, which is why there's not really one solid answer.

However (and I bet you know where this is going) the Realms in Ed Greenwood's writing has spent a lot of time looking at the cultural ramifications of adventurers, how they fit into larger institutions, their legality, what people think of them and so on. Ed's quick, slightly-sarcastic definition of an adventurer as defined throughout D&D's history is "adventurers go here and there and find or make trouble." Which makes sense as the only collective term that fits the role of adventurers in a D&D game and all the various adventures they have. What Ed has expanded on is going okay, here's the kinds of people who approach adventurers for jobs, here's where they do it and why and what that contextually means (you're basically hiring drunk hooligans to gently caress up someone else's poo poo and all the other poo poo along the way and yeah your poo poo is gonna get hosed up too); here's the ways nations respond to adventurers and try to keep them from being too crazy; here's how adventurers get famous and get tales told about them and how they are thought of in culture and writing and so on and so forth. There's a lot of different sources for that, but a lot of it is contained in a book published in 2012 in anticipation of 5e, Elminster's Forgotten Realms. That's an edition-agnostic, rules-free supplement of just details and inspiration for games set in the Realms (and very adaptable to other settings), and it spends a good amount of time talking about adventurers' day jobs, or what adventurers retiring looks like. Get that, and you'll find your answers.

Right and I think you've pointed out my big problem for why I'm asking this. The question of 'who are adventurers and how do they fit' is a really big important one for defining tone of a game and even within the same setting what mercenary and not even having a place to talk about what an adventurer is in your game seems like a pretty big missing step? Like even pathfinder goes into detail about the pathfinder society and pathfinders being a part of that or operating independently an how the interface with the world. This is something they include out of the gate.

Kung Food posted:

I treat them as if the greater population sees them as mostly a nuisance that people put up with because every now and then a group of em will stop an apocalypse or other great catastrophe. It's just a nature of the realm that random assholes tend to find each other, cause trouble and usually end up dead.

Heres the fun part, I don't treat adventurers like that in any way shape or form but you're absolutely not wrong in running them like that. I feel asking and answering 'what is an adventurer and how they fit into your world' is a single topic that can set the playstyle and tone for a campaign but nowhere in any rules or discussions i've seen does it actually tell you to ask this question.

TheGreatEvilKing
Mar 28, 2016





Sodomy Hussein posted:

...the character gains dread powers...

...a +1 circumstance bonus on saving throws...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lzC0aIVFvw

The big thing for that feat is that mindless undead won't attack you, meaning you can have an evil lair of uncontrolled skeletons and free up your animate dead HD for doing stuff you care about.

Kung Food
Dec 11, 2006

PORN WIZARD

kingcom posted:

Heres the fun part, I don't treat adventurers like that in any way shape or form but you're absolutely not wrong in running them like that. I feel asking and answering 'what is an adventurer and how they fit into your world' is a single topic that can set the playstyle and tone for a campaign but nowhere in any rules or discussions i've seen does it actually tell you to ask this question.

The mindset evolved from an attempt to curb my players' tendencies to try and steal everything not bolted down. "The blacksmith's shop has sophisticated locks and sturdy doors because... you know.... adventurers."

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

kingcom posted:

Right and I think you've pointed out my big problem for why I'm asking this. The question of 'who are adventurers and how do they fit' is a really big important one for defining tone of a game and even within the same setting what mercenary and not even having a place to talk about what an adventurer is in your game seems like a pretty big missing step? Like even pathfinder goes into detail about the pathfinder society and pathfinders being a part of that or operating independently an how the interface with the world. This is something they include out of the gate.


Heres the fun part, I don't treat adventurers like that in any way shape or form but you're absolutely not wrong in running them like that. I feel asking and answering 'what is an adventurer and how they fit into your world' is a single topic that can set the playstyle and tone for a campaign but nowhere in any rules or discussions i've seen does it actually tell you to ask this question.

I think it's worth noting that at a quick look both 3e and 4e at least define a basic idea of an adventurer somewhere in their core rulebooks, and it's only 5e that stumbles that badly. It's still not as well developed as it should be for various settings, but at least playing 3e you knew that you were a "hero who sets out on epic quests for fortune and glory." (As an aside, comparing a bunch of the DMGs shows how much of the 5e DMG was straight up grade-school plagiarized from previous books, like full on copies with the names replaced. Lazy fuckin Mearls, lol.)

PaybackJack
May 21, 2003

You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

Kung Food posted:

The mindset evolved from an attempt to curb my players' tendencies to try and steal everything not bolted down. "The blacksmith's shop has sophisticated locks and sturdy doors because... you know.... adventurers."

One way to curb that I've found is that you can clearly define sections of the game where stealing and looting will be encouraged. I noticed that it typically results in boredom and a desire for more stuff so if you can make each adventure beat focused on that aspect

Same page tool is also helpful for setting player's expectations going into a game so if you're trying to send the players on an epic quest to save the world they know what they're walking into. Otherwise, if you basically just want to dick around then they know that and you can go from there. I tend to have different moods when running a game so it's nice to communicate what kind of game I want to run so the players that care can build accordingly; of course there's always that person that has to zig when everyone else zags. Like in my last game running Ravenloft, the Paladin and the Bard were invested in getting the MacGuffins and getting information from townspeople while the Druid decided she wanted to run around the forest in stag form and be antisocial.

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.

Arivia posted:

I think it's worth noting that at a quick look both 3e and 4e at least define a basic idea of an adventurer somewhere in their core rulebooks, and it's only 5e that stumbles that badly. It's still not as well developed as it should be for various settings, but at least playing 3e you knew that you were a "hero who sets out on epic quests for fortune and glory." (As an aside, comparing a bunch of the DMGs shows how much of the 5e DMG was straight up grade-school plagiarized from previous books, like full on copies with the names replaced. Lazy fuckin Mearls, lol.)

quote:

Adventurers are extraordinary people, driven by a thirst for excitement into a life that others would never dare lead. They are heroes, compelled to explore the dark places of the world and take on the challenges that lesser women and men can’t stand against

That may have come off in an attacking manner and I don't mean it that way, that's just the description they give in the PHB.

Dexo fucked around with this message at 08:05 on Nov 26, 2019

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Arivia posted:

I think it's worth noting that at a quick look both 3e and 4e at least define a basic idea of an adventurer somewhere in their core rulebooks, and it's only 5e that stumbles that badly. It's still not as well developed as it should be for various settings, but at least playing 3e you knew that you were a "hero who sets out on epic quests for fortune and glory." (As an aside, comparing a bunch of the DMGs shows how much of the 5e DMG was straight up grade-school plagiarized from previous books, like full on copies with the names replaced. Lazy fuckin Mearls, lol.)

How do you plagiarise from yourself.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

sebmojo posted:

How do you plagiarise from yourself.

Idk you tell me why Mearls took paragraphs right out of Rob Heinsoo and Skip Williams’ work on the 3.5 and 4e DMG and so on.

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.

Arivia posted:

Idk you tell me why Mearls took paragraphs right out of Rob Heinsoo and Skip Williams’ work on the 3.5 and 4e DMG and so on.

They are credited, and it would be foolish to not reuse stuff that still applies and works for this version. Regardless of one's deservedly low opinion of Mearls.

stringless
Dec 28, 2005

keyboard ⌨️​ :clint: cowboy

Kung Food posted:

I treat them as if the greater population sees them as mostly a nuisance that people put up with because every now and then a group of em will stop an apocalypse or other great catastrophe. It's just a nature of the realm that random assholes tend to find each other, cause trouble and usually end up dead.



But there are three to six of them and they're mostly working together

When I eventually get around to running a campaign again and when it goes long enough there is absolutely going to be a secret society whose entire purpose is to notice that Player Characters are active (though the organization, being within the game, will use a different epithet).

This will make perfect sense, because I've run all of my (D&D) games in the last decade in the same homebrew setting, over time, and eventually conspiracy theorists within it should pick up on patterns over time. "Keep me up-to-date on suspiciously-adept apprentices and those who come out of horrible circumstances with surprising ability in combat. Especially if they start teaming up."

Come to think of it, now it's just Unbreakable and I am 100% okay with that. A decades- or centuries-old secret society trying to cargo cult PCs into existence for their own purposes!?

That leads to factions within the cult/guild/what-have-you ("leave us alone!" vs "save us!") and ooh i'm going to have to work on this more than i already have. This has just been in the back of my head as a funny idea but now that I've actually written down some bits, it's a bit meta, but it's not unreasonable.

stringless fucked around with this message at 11:14 on Nov 26, 2019

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Arivia posted:

Idk you tell me why Mearls took paragraphs right out of Rob Heinsoo and Skip Williams’ work on the 3.5 and 4e DMG and so on.

it's not mike mearls d&d tho

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

FFT posted:

When I eventually get around to running a campaign again and when it goes long enough there is absolutely going to be a secret society whose entire purpose is to notice that Player Characters are active (though the organization, being within the game, will use a different epithet).

This will make perfect sense, because I've run all of my (D&D) games in the last decade in the same homebrew setting, over time, and eventually conspiracy theorists within it should pick up on patterns over time. "Keep me up-to-date on suspiciously-adept apprentices and those who come out of horrible circumstances with surprising ability in combat. Especially if they start teaming up."
I had a mutants and masterminds character I never got to play who'd been zapped in from a generic fantasy pastiche world and was looking for a portal home. He would have joined up with the other PCs specifically because they're a band of unlikely heroes and "I know how these things work".

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stringless
Dec 28, 2005

keyboard ⌨️​ :clint: cowboy

Splicer posted:

I had a mutants and masterminds character I never got to play who'd been zapped in from a generic fantasy pastiche world and was looking for a portal home. He would have joined up with the other PCs specifically because they're a band of unlikely heroes and "I know how these things work".

"cargo cult genre savvy" is 100% the idea

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