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Also, is Obama stupid or oblivious to not realize that trump, bone deep and on a very personal level, HATES him. It is the thing he has probably been the most consistent about in the past decade. He'd literally rather work with North Korea than Obama. How could Obama not possibly understand that. Does he just have that much belief that their similar class interests would overcome Trump's loathing of him
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Nov 26, 2019 18:25
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Helith posted:Out of interest, why does electoral campaigning in the US take years when other countries have a specific time period of weeks to campaign in before an election? Since the 1830s, candidates for President have been nominated at their party conventions, typically held the summer before the November election (Though they have taken place as early as April and as late as September, and if I had to guess the timing was in part due to the shitload of time it took to travel to and from the convention, as traveling across the US could still take weeks at that point). Up until the 1960s, the way the conventions would shake down was that state parties would come to the convention, various candidates would be nominated and shot down, and eventually enough backroom deals and handshake agreements would be made for someone generally agreeable to make it through the nominating process (See for instance how Lincoln was nominated on the 3rd ballot of the 1860 RNC over the much more powerful William Seward). Of course, the problem with selecting candidates at the party conventions in smoke filled back rooms is that's not exactly democratic! But as time passed, many state parties began assigning their convention delegates through primary elections prior to the convention, allowing the people a chance to have their say before being ignored by convention politicking. And as more states implemented primary elections and caucuses, candidates began paying more attention to them, campaigning in these early primary states to increase their chance of being nominated at the summer convention. Then 1968 rolled around, and poo poo got hosed. As the year began, everyone assumed that the incumbent President Lyndon Johnson was going to run and win easily. Having taken over as President in 1963 after Kennedy was assassinated, Johnson had utterly steamrolled Republican Barry Goldwater in 1964 and was perhaps the most powerful figure in Democratic party politics. However, as opposition to the Vietnam War grew, so too did opposition to Johnson, and Senator Eugene McCarthy of Minnesota was convinced to run a protest campaign against Johnson. Running on an anti-war platform that was bolstered by the disastrous Tet Offensive in early 1968, McCarthy performed extremely well in the New Hampshire primary, winning 42% of the ballot to Johnson's 49%. Sensing blood in the water, Robert F. Kennedy (JFK's brother, former AG, and prominent critic of Johnson who loathed the man with all his soul) decided to jump in as well—and then in a surprise twist, Johnson decided to call it quits and announced he wouldn't be running for reelection. Without recounting the entire 1968 campaign, what you need to know is: Hubert Humphery, Johnson's VP, declared, and ran a traditional campaign of collecting endorsements from party bosses and other influential figures that could deliver delegates at the convention, while Kennedy and McCarthy competed in public primary elections (Held only by 13 states at this time). Then, after winning the crucial California primary, Kennedy was shot and killed by a Palestinian activist, throwing the entire process in even more disarray. At the end of it all, Humphery won the 1968 Democratic National Convention in Chicago despite never winning (Or even running in) a single primary election, and the anti-war platform lost in spite of the vast majority of primary voters having cast their ballots for peace candidates. As a result anti-war activists broke out into a massive riot on the streets of Chicago, battling the police force of powerful Democratic party boss and utter son of a bitch Mayor Richard Daley. And after all this, Humphery went and narrowly lost to Nixon, due in part to George Wallace and the Dixiecrats splitting the ballot. In the aftermath of this debacle, the Democrats reformed the party nomination system to ensure that the voters, not party bosses, would choose the presidential candidate, starting with the Iowa Caucus and New Hampshire primary in the earliest part of the election year. Due to the complexities of running a nationwide campaign across a country as large as the United States, candidates thus begun to declare as early as possible—Jimmy Carter, for instance, declared his candidacy on December 12th, 1974, nearly two years before the 1976 election. Some candidates have declared earlier or later, but generally everyone wants to spend as much time as possible gaining name recognition and building grassroots organizations to ensure success in the primary elections. So that's why Presidential Elections are so long! Money has played a big part in allowing campaigns to ramp up bigger, faster, and earlier, but the years long campaign cycle is really more due to the mechanics of the party nomination processes, which in turn are due to various reforms and traditions dating back to the early days of the country. The more you know!
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Nov 26, 2019 18:25
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terrorist ambulance posted:Also, is Obama stupid or oblivious to not realize that trump, bone deep and on a very personal level, HATES him. It is the thing he has probably been the most consistent about in the past decade. He'd literally rather work with North Korea than Obama. lol this. On some level I get that the hating Hillary poo poo is red meat for his base, as obviously he's friends with her/Bill outside of recent years and politics. But dude clearly hates Obama and has for over a decade now. Whether it's more because "president made bad decisions" or "dark skinned secret muslim" is unclear, but still, 
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Nov 26, 2019 18:27
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2008's hopium-addicts transitioned through "well I only expected him to be better than Bush" to active scorn, it's kind of amazing.
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Nov 26, 2019 18:28
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Tatsuta Age posted:lol this. On some level I get that the hating Hillary poo poo is red meat for his base, as obviously he's friends with her/Bill outside of recent years and politics. But dude clearly hates Obama and has for over a decade now. Whether it's more because "president made bad decisions" or "dark skinned secret muslim" is unclear, but still, Trump's number one desire has been for the media to love him and he hates that Obama got that.
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Nov 26, 2019 18:28
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Tatsuta Age posted:lol this. On some level I get that the hating Hillary poo poo is red meat for his base, as obviously he's friends with her/Bill outside of recent years and politics. But dude clearly hates Obama and has for over a decade now. Whether it's more because "president made bad decisions" or "dark skinned secret muslim" is unclear, but still, actually i don't think it's unclear at all whether President Birther's reason for hating Obama is racism
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Nov 26, 2019 18:29
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eke out posted:actually i don't think it's unclear at all whether President Birther's reason for hating Obama is racism well I mean obviously it's mostly racism but is it like 20/80? 60/40? who can say why bad brain man have bad brain
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Nov 26, 2019 18:29
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Tatsuta Age posted:well I mean obviously it's mostly racism but is it like 20/80? 60/40? who can say why bad brain man have bad brain right, it's mostly racism with a healthy side of jealousy
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Nov 26, 2019 18:30
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eke out posted:actually i don't think it's unclear at all whether President Birther's reason for hating Obama is racism Racism with a very normal-healthy dash of narcissism I'm sure partly explains the hate-train every prominent black American deals with. Also 
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Nov 26, 2019 18:30
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Imagine how different things might have been had Obama not dunked on Trump at the 2011 Correspondents Dinner.
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Nov 26, 2019 18:32
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Also this lady is going to launch Chicago right back into the GOP fold when her administration is done. https://twitter.com/soit_goes/status/1199370452512235525
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Nov 26, 2019 18:33
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How are u posted:Yeah maybe a lot of posters are young and don't remember how Obama campaigned hard on uniting Americans, reaching across the aisle, finding common ground, etc. It also didn't seem that crazy given we were only 6 years from 9/11 and everyone getting behind Bush and figured that the GOP would do the same thing the Dems did if the popular support was there. Turns out the GOP are amoral bastards who only care about their own power. In 2019 if you think you can appeal to their better nature you're a fool, but it's not that crazy a concept in 2007.
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Nov 26, 2019 18:33
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While I think of all these criticisms of Obama as valid, I find Politico's reporting on rumors like this to be poo poo and I'll wait until something more substantive comes out. The whole piece is written around "Privately Obama has said something that he denies having said, and even says he'll support who the Democratic candidate is". There isn't even any indication on how close of a source this is to Obama, where they heard it and so on
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Nov 26, 2019 18:34
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Consider that Joe Biden's answer to the GOP is that they will have an "epiphany" when Trump is gone. It is literally magical thinking. That they can still believe in decorum after the past few years is unbelieveable, but what can you expect from out of touch rich men?
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Nov 26, 2019 18:35
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i mean tbf, when Trump loses by 20 million votes, they will have to reevaluate their core strategies
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Nov 26, 2019 18:36
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TheDisreputableDog posted:Imagine how different things might have been had Obama not dunked on Trump at the 2011 Correspondents Dinner. We’d have a GOP president who wasn’t the world’s biggest idiot and he probably would have passed more tax cuts, gutted more services, and passed one of the awful GOP healthcare plans.
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Nov 26, 2019 18:37
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my bony fealty posted:Consider that Joe Biden's answer to the GOP is that they will have an "epiphany" when Trump is gone. It is literally magical thinking. That they can still believe in decorum after the past few years is unbelieveable, but what can you expect from out of touch rich men? When Trump is gone, he will be remembered fondly, and lovingly, but there will also be a cadre who pretend the Trump years didn't happen, and that's who Biden thinks will be running the Republican party afterwards is what makes him naive.
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Nov 26, 2019 18:37
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oxsnard posted:i mean tbf, when Trump loses by 20 million votes, they will have to reevaluate their core strategies reevaluate their core strategies of "maybe we're not blocking legislation and kneecapping state politics enough", or "maybe we aren't disenfranchising enough blacks", or "maybe we aren't riling up white nationalists enough", take your pick like, seriously imagining that the GOP is going to pivot anywhere but "we have the courts now, so let's gerrymander harder than ever" if they get curbstomped in 2020 is uh, pretty not in line with historical evidence
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Nov 26, 2019 18:38
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Tatsuta Age posted:reevaluate their core strategies of "maybe we're not blocking legislation and kneecapping state politics enough", or "maybe we aren't disenfranchising enough blacks", or "maybe we aren't riling up white nationalists enough", take your pick it's probably more along the lines of "ok, we just need a nazi who at least tries to hide it sometimes"
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Nov 26, 2019 18:39
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oxsnard posted:i mean tbf, when Trump loses by 20 million votes, they will have to reevaluate their core strategies Or they’ll cry voter fraud, pass massive voter suppression bills that make their current efforts look like child’s play, and dare Roberts to stop them.
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Nov 26, 2019 18:40
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oxsnard posted:i mean tbf, when Trump loses by 20 million votes, they will have to reevaluate their core strategies They didn't when they got rinsed in 2008.
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Nov 26, 2019 18:41
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Strange Poon posted:While I think of all these criticisms of Obama as valid, I find Politico's reporting on rumors like this to be poo poo and I'll wait until something more substantive comes out. The whole piece is written around "Privately Obama has said something that he denies having said, and even says he'll support who the Democratic candidate is". There isn't even any indication on how close of a source this is to Obama, where they heard it and so on lol how did I read the whole article without knowing it was Politico Yeah I give that quote about Bernie approximately 50/50 odds of having been said
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Nov 26, 2019 18:41
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Nonsense posted:Also this lady is going to launch Chicago right back into the GOP fold when her administration is done. This is so loving depressing. We desperately need a prominent leftist party...
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Nov 26, 2019 18:41
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The GOP is already in an apartheid mindset - if their current efforts fail on the national stage, the natural solution is to expand their efforts until they achieve success.
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Nov 26, 2019 18:42
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Groovelord Neato posted:They didn't when they got rinsed in 2008. They tried for like 6 months (Iol Michael Steele) but then realized that tens of millions of riled up evangelicals and racists weren’t going anywhere for the next decade or two.
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Nov 26, 2019 18:43
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Groovelord Neato posted:They didn't when they got rinsed in 2008. They absolutely did, Trump just went around them to get the nomination. They needed to court Hispanic voters to stay relevant without cheating. And I'm aware of how much work the last two words are doing in that sentence.
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Nov 26, 2019 18:43
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Groovelord Neato posted:They didn't when they got rinsed in 2008. sure they did. McCain at least attempted to do ~decorum~ and then the tea party happened
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Nov 26, 2019 18:43
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Ague Proof posted:He said as much. That said, Obama bad.
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Nov 26, 2019 18:47
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There’s a lot of dissent in this thread about how Obama flubbed his presidency and in hindsight was a pretty trash-tier leader. This.. this is exactly the mechanism behind why he was so ineffective. How many policy changes or major legislative victories did he completely flop on because of “decorum.” The Supreme Court is the cherry on top example. Instead of standing up to turtle Mitch he gave in because of “decorum.” His whole presidency was sabotaged, by himself, because he was/is too weary of looking bad. Can’t believe after 8 years he never learned that he’s the only one hamstrung by that moral compass. Republicans couldn’t care less about decorum.
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Nov 26, 2019 18:47
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axeil posted:It also didn't seem that crazy given we were only 6 years from 9/11 and everyone getting behind Bush and figured that the GOP would do the same thing the Dems did if the popular support was there. provided you weren't around for 1998, yes
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Nov 26, 2019 18:48
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Blind Rasputin posted:There’s a lot of dissent in this thread about how Obama flubbed his presidency and in hindsight was a pretty trash-tier leader. This.. this is exactly the mechanism behind why he was so ineffective. How many policy changes or major legislative victories did he completely flop on because of “decorum.” The Supreme Court is the cherry on top example. Instead of standing up to turtle Mitch he gave in because of “decorum.” He was silent on Russian interference because McConnell threatened to say he was being partisan if he went public with it.
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Nov 26, 2019 18:49
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I hate white leftist .
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Nov 26, 2019 18:50
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Groovelord Neato posted:He was silent on Russian interference because McConnell threatened to say he was being partisan if he went public with it. I'll give Obama the benefit of the doubt on this one because no one in DC thought Trump stood a chance
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Nov 26, 2019 18:50
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Blind Rasputin posted:The Supreme Court is the cherry on top example. Instead of standing up to turtle Mitch he gave in because of “decorum.” I agree with a lot of the criticisms, but this one still doesn't make any sense to me. There wasn't a move to make.
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Nov 26, 2019 18:53
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Ice Phisherman posted:So as someone who enjoys to write and talks about narrative a lot, I'm going to talk about the chosen one narrative. I swear I'm normally the most chill, non-judgmental, let-people-enjoy-things type person but this post broke me. It's your time and effort to waste and all, but does it seriously not bother you that by the end of the day (if not sooner) the 12 pages/6,000 words you worked on here are going to be lost amid the SomethingAwful maelstrom and nobody is ever going to read it again? Imagine if Marx blew "Capital" on a series of effort posts on various thousands-of-pages long threads on a message board or if "I Have a Dream" were just a Skype conversation Dr. King had with his aunt. Like, there's nothing wrong with masturbating but at a certain point maybe you should become a webcam model if you're going to spend all day on it, know what I mean? At least start a blog or something even if just for posterity because this is some "All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy"-level poo poo. 
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Nov 26, 2019 18:53
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https://mobile.twitter.com/thehill/status/1199384652672389127 Youth Opiod summit Mr Ice Cream Glove fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Nov 26, 2019 |
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Nov 26, 2019 18:54
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theflyingorc posted:Mitch would have been forced to hold hearings if only Obama had....something Yeah this probably seemed like the smart play, providing that Trump getting humiliated in the election came with a few senate wins
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Nov 26, 2019 18:55
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SidneyIsTheKiller posted:I swear I'm normally the most chill, non-judgmental, let-people-enjoy-things type person but this post broke me. It's your time and effort to waste and all, but does it seriously not bother you that by the end of the day (if not sooner) the 12 pages/6,000 words you worked on here are going to be lost amid the SomethingAwful maelstrom and nobody is ever going to read it again? Imagine if Marx blew "Capital" on a series of effort posts on various thousands-of-pages long threads on a message board or if "I Have a Dream" were just a Skype conversation Dr. King had with his aunt. Like, there's nothing wrong with masturbating but at a certain point maybe you should become a webcam model if you're going to spend all day on it, know what I mean? You just inadvertently (I cannot imagine intentionally) compared his massive posting to Marx and MLK. I get what you're trying to say but that strikes me as a little funny  e: maybe I'm wrong and ice phish will be one of the defining voices or thinkers of the 21st century.
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Nov 26, 2019 18:56
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oxsnard posted:Yeah this probably seemed like the smart play, providing that Trump getting humiliated in the election came with a few senate wins I'm not saying it was smart, I just think a lot of people act like if he had just...not...decorum'd? Then Mitch would have been forced to hold hearings? It's just fiction, Mitch wouldn't have heard a single person that wasn't handpicked by Republicans.
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Nov 26, 2019 18:57
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pkay posted:I hate white leftist . we aren't the ones who proclaimed "because Timmy Geithner ran up some bad gambling debts, it is now legal to steal your parents' home," pkay. it's alright to admit the guy who did that hosed up when he did that. he made some pretty bad mistakes. among which the immigration policy that lead, measurably, to the guy in the White House right now, and the camps in the desert with the shallow graves outside. he decided he was going to deport all those goddamned mexicans, better than Bush ever could have, to prove dems could be Tough On Immigration. he ordered a tremendous upswell of human misery, all in the name of pragmatically bringing the republicans to the negotiating table. what happened next.
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Nov 26, 2019 18:57
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