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Coolguye posted:that has been an extremely stupid thing since CK2 1.0. if your primary heir is not of your dynasty, the game ends, gg, doesn't matter who else of your dynasty is alive or active or even inheriting in the same event - if your primary heir isn't your dynasty, get hosed and reload. This is one of the reason I like Imperator Rome approach to characters more. It doesn't pretend I'm one of the characters. Characters are tools. In CK2 I remember very well a moment when I played as one of the Rurikids (there are a lot of those guys in Russian principalities) and had a long struggle with one of the other Rurikids. He murdered my family, took my lands. And when my dude died I switched to my former rival cause he inherited few of my remaining holdings. We had very distant family relations but seniority succession worked like that. In my perfect vision for CK2 you'd be allowed to switch to any of your inheritors maybe. Or probably as an optional rule you'd switch to a random landed member of your dynasty, that would be fun too I guess. Would work better for roleplaying purposes too, making you care about your relatives. You'd still be incentivized to murder most people in your dynasty so that after the switch you play as some big lord though.
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Nov 26, 2019 10:39
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This comes up a lot for me because I’m always pushing for inherited titles and marrying people off in ways that are likely to put my family members on new titles. In the current mapgoons CK2 game I successfully seduced another players female heir and legitimised the bastard and the only way for him to keep his primary titles was to imprison and execute the poor baby. It also lead to the unfortunate situation of other players now targeting me for rightfully being too successful. I had the throne of France and was poised to put a cousin in England at one point. But a lot of my external family members have suspiciously been dying for a while 
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Nov 26, 2019 10:44
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Serephina posted:Basically, these guys and the DCSS devs are on the same boat. As I understand DCSS is a pure roguelike with permadeath so there's no other way to play the game except in very hardcore mode. CK2 has iron man mode and achievements but in "casual" mode you can literally switch a character at any moment without cheats, not to mention you can start as a ruler that nobody can ever beat. I can even understand EU4 balanced around making world conquest hard and boring, but in CK2 you're supposed to create an empire and die cause your dumb sone had pushed you from the balcony, throwing the realm into a civil war, it never was supposed to be balanced and challenging game.
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Nov 26, 2019 10:44
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ilitarist posted:In my perfect vision for CK2 you'd be allowed to switch to any of your inheritors maybe.
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Nov 26, 2019 18:23
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Coolguye posted:this is the correct take. there's no reason whatsoever to force the primary heir to be the person you play as all the time. i can think of numerous situations where this would be a lot more fun than always being emperor the instant you attain an empire. I think the fun part of a CK2 game is being a count of wherever, scheming and fighting these really limited wars as you try to climb the ladder. Once you hit emperor it just feels like work. I'd gladly jump from an emperor into, like, the fourth son with good stats who's getting a single county and start the cycle all over rather than the disappointing primary heir failson due to inherit the empire.
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Nov 26, 2019 18:45
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You guys know you can let go of your cheevos and then just use the console to switch over to whatever character you want, right?
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Nov 26, 2019 18:56
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Eric the Mauve posted:You guys know you can let go of your cheevos and then just use the console to switch over to whatever character you want, right? Yeah but I genuinely believe Ironman is more fun because if I'm allowed access to the console I am going to demonstrate a profound lack of self control with it.
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Nov 26, 2019 18:58
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Eric the Mauve posted:You guys know you can let go of your cheevos and then just use the console to switch over to whatever character you want, right? yes, thank you for that reminder that is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.
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Nov 26, 2019 18:59
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My bad, I thought the topic at hand was "I wish I could play as whichever character I want"
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Nov 26, 2019 19:01
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I'm sorry to hear about so many people who hate fun enough to play unmodded and ironman. I'd recommend Twilight of Empires if you want something to restrain the imperial snowball.
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Nov 26, 2019 19:11
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A game that requires the use of the console is a terrible game.
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Nov 26, 2019 19:22
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Airspace posted:A game that requires the use of the console is a terrible game. Strong PC Master Race sentiment here
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Nov 26, 2019 19:32
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I remember when the qtest came out and the immediate feedback from everyone was “keep the console available to players!”
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Nov 26, 2019 20:06
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if I allow myself use of the console I'll just create event troops and get rid of lovely traits. I have no interest in exercising self-control cuz it's a loving video game. ironman it is.
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Nov 26, 2019 20:11
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Are any other ATE players having issues with too many Host Armies running around? In my last game it got so bad that the game just crashes to desktop after a certain point.
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Nov 26, 2019 20:28
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You can just load up as any character when not on ironman, but it'd just be real nice to have the game give you that option with a little decoration and without the game calling you a dirty cheater for doing some mind hopping. In my first game after I learned the basics, I started out as Sicily, made a little progress until a Jihad kicked me out of my homelands and all I was left was a countess of Sardinia, who then married the prince of Castille, and I mind-hopped into him, formed Hispania, and won back southern Italy for the family. It was fun. I get that the way this works, it pushes players more towards historic things like continuing the family line, but it's also historic for some kings to be extremely short-sighted and kill off the bulk of their family to consolidate power. I think some of the early Karlings fell into that trap. Post the CK2 period, there's things like England swapping out its dynasty like 8 times. It's just weirdly struggling wanting the game to be more than it is, which doesn't sound that unreasonable when they're working on making a sequel to be more than what the game is now.
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Nov 26, 2019 21:08
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SlothfulCobra posted:You can just load up as any character when not on ironman, but it'd just be real nice to have the game give you that option with a little decoration and without the game calling you a dirty cheater for doing some mind hopping. To add to the discussion, there are circumstances where discontinuing your dynasty would in-character be the winning move. If I'm a one-county nobody and I marry my only child to the King of France, what do I care if all my grandkids will be Capets? I hit the Middle Ages jackpot.
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Nov 26, 2019 21:48
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Off topic but is there a thread for Imperator? Is it any good yet?
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Nov 27, 2019 01:32
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Armacham posted:Off topic but is there a thread for Imperator? Is it any good yet? https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3887704 I've enjoyed the current patch quite a bit. It's still a little all over the place but enough of the mechanics are interesting to play around with that I consider it pretty fun. And there's a big patch/free content pack coming out in a week.
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Nov 27, 2019 01:47
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Complications posted:I'm sorry to hear about so many people who hate fun enough to play unmodded and ironman. I'd recommend Twilight of Empires if you want something to restrain the imperial snowball. Every time I try a mod that promises to be tame and not to turn everything into a different world I get events with Skyrim references and Intrigue screen is filled with decisions like "Show/Hide all the decisions about genocide".
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Nov 27, 2019 09:58
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ilitarist posted:Every time I try a mod that promises to be tame and not to turn everything into a different world I get events with Skyrim references and Intrigue screen is filled with decisions like "Show/Hide all the decisions about genocide". lmao i’ve never seen a more correct post. is twilight of empires that bad, because man i hate how byz/umayyad/abbasid just straight up never lose territory
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Nov 27, 2019 10:05
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a fatguy baldspot posted:lmao i’ve never seen a more correct post. is twilight of empires that bad, because man i hate how byz/umayyad/abbasid just straight up never lose territory Nah, Twilight of Empires is fine, as far as I can tell, just makes empires a bit more unstable
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Nov 27, 2019 10:19
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I have Primogeniture, but my two King titles still go to two different sons. Is this just the way King titles work, or is there something I can do to prevent this? Edit: Im an idiot. Just realized that kingdoms have different royal laws. Is there a reason my grandson inherits instead of my son? DJ Dizzy fucked around with this message at 11:01 on Nov 27, 2019 |
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Nov 27, 2019 10:59
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DJ Dizzy posted:I have Primogeniture, but my two King titles still go to two different sons. Is this just the way King titles work, or is there something I can do to prevent this? He’s the son of your other dead son.
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Nov 27, 2019 11:08
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Oh well. Better off him then.
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Nov 27, 2019 11:28
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a fatguy baldspot posted:lmao i’ve never seen a more correct post. is twilight of empires that bad, because man i hate how byz/umayyad/abbasid just straight up never lose territory I'm using Twilight of Empires in my current AoE game, and it's definitely stopped the HCC from turning into the Grey Goo like it did in my previous games. And you yourself can still go on conquering sprees, as long as you regularly release tributaries. So if you want to blob yourself, you can. It's just a different flavor of blob.
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Nov 27, 2019 15:28
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What about choice of playable character on succession being tied to inheritance law? If you have gravelkind you can select to continue to play as any of the children inheriting. If the law is set to seniority then you have no choice. Other inheritance laws would be something in between I guess.
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Nov 27, 2019 16:25
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Captain Beans posted:What about choice of playable character on succession being tied to inheritance law? Seniority in particular stands out to me as annoying cuz I'd almost always really prefer to be my own kid and not some elderly jackass cousin, even if he gets the primary title.
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Nov 27, 2019 16:27
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SirPhoebos posted:I'm using Twilight of Empires in my current AoE game, and it's definitely stopped the HCC from turning into the Grey Goo like it did in my previous games. how does it discourage blobbing? Captain Beans posted:What about choice of playable character on succession being tied to inheritance law? yeah i’ve always wanted this, mostly to play as norse pagans and split off a younger sibling to rule in crimea or wherever
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Nov 27, 2019 16:30
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I'm curious about Twilight of Empires, too. I like playing Byzantines starting at the Alexiad point because it's a least a bit of a challenge, but in almost every game I play (starting as any character and any starting time that features them) the HRE just monoliths and blobs the entire length of the game.
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Nov 27, 2019 18:16
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a fatguy baldspot posted:how does it discourage blobbing? https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1840725833 To summarize, once you form an Empire you get Imperial inefficiency penalties to national taxes and levies. At their peak its a 50% penalty. A ruler with high stats can pass reforms to mitigate these, but they eventually revert back. There are some other mechanics, but that's the big one.
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Nov 27, 2019 18:19
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ilitarist posted:Every time I try a mod that promises to be tame and not to turn everything into a different world I get events with Skyrim references and Intrigue screen is filled with decisions like "Show/Hide all the decisions about genocide". Oh no, none of that. It adds exactly what the steam link SirPhoebos posted says it does with nothing weird waiting under the surface. Some penalties to empire income and levies are the first major measure and then some additional fuckery that vassals (and your imperial guard) can get up to, as well as possible counter fuckery with eunuchs that adds additional economic penalties if you don't stay on top of it. It's several more plates to spin, and there's no getting out of most of the penalties - the reforms can handle up to 10% of the penalties involved but that's 3000 prestige per ruler and 15 in Martial, Stewardship, and Diplomatic to keep them current.
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Nov 27, 2019 19:34
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Knuc U Kinte posted:He’s the son of your other dead son. DJ Dizzy posted:Oh well. Better off him then. To expand on this, the way that primogeniture succession works is that it assumes for the purposes of succession that everyone is alive at the point of succession. So if you have three sons, the first of whom is dead, then what will happen on your death is the title will first pass to the dead son, then it will immediately process who it should go to from him, which would be his firstborn if he has children, otherwise it would go to his brother. So basically depending on how your family tree is set up, the title could pass through multiple dead people before actually landing on a living relative, and following that algorithm is how it decides who ultimately inherits. Agnatic-Cognatic adds an extra complication in that daughters with sons are given preference over daughters without sons, even if the daughter without a son is older. I'm not sure if this still applies if they had a son but he died.
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Nov 28, 2019 00:23
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Complications posted:Oh no, none of that. It adds exactly what the steam link SirPhoebos posted says it does with nothing weird waiting under the surface. Some penalties to empire income and levies are the first major measure and then some additional fuckery that vassals (and your imperial guard) can get up to, as well as possible counter fuckery with eunuchs that adds additional economic penalties if you don't stay on top of it. It's several more plates to spin, and there's no getting out of most of the penalties - the reforms can handle up to 10% of the penalties involved but that's 3000 prestige per ruler and 15 in Martial, Stewardship, and Diplomatic to keep them current. I was probably unfair to that specific mod, but I'm not happy with modding in general. UI or graphics mods and maybe some specific fixes are fine sometimes, but it mostly turns into a game of building a slightly better experience with a lot of small mods (I run font mod, colors mod, bigger UI mod, some music mods and sometimes I try map graphics mods). Even the big famous mods like Fall from Heaven 2 for Civilization 4 turn out to have a lot of disjointed art and music, and add some juvenile stuff not to mention horrible feature creep. Things like that make me value boring design by committee, they still drop dumb comet or loot crates jokes on us but not Guybrush Treepwood with sing a song special ability.
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Nov 28, 2019 09:05
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Seniority in particular stands out to me as annoying cuz I'd almost always really prefer to be my own kid and not some elderly jackass cousin, even if he gets the primary title. If you're good at the marriage game seniority is fantastic because you're always inheriting another duchy or even kingdom with every change in ruler.
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Nov 28, 2019 09:36
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This is why I really like the change to crusades - it can be a really great change of pace, a challenge and just plain interesting to go from King of Whatever to single province duke in precarious crusader state. I’d like to see more options like that.
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Nov 28, 2019 11:07
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lenoon posted:This is why I really like the change to crusades - it can be a really great change of pace, a challenge and just plain interesting to go from King of Whatever to single province duke in precarious crusader state. I’d like to see more options like that. yeah, i especially like being able to create your own crusader state, though it’s often a race to see if you can get the whole duchy before the catholic swarm overwhelms it’s target
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Nov 28, 2019 11:35
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ilitarist posted:I was probably unfair to that specific mod, but I'm not happy with modding in general. UI or graphics mods and maybe some specific fixes are fine sometimes, but it mostly turns into a game of building a slightly better experience with a lot of small mods (I run font mod, colors mod, bigger UI mod, some music mods and sometimes I try map graphics mods). Even the big famous mods like Fall from Heaven 2 for Civilization 4 turn out to have a lot of disjointed art and music, and add some juvenile stuff not to mention horrible feature creep. Things like that make me value boring design by committee, they still drop dumb comet or loot crates jokes on us but not Guybrush Treepwood with sing a song special ability. Hmm. What's your opinion on Darth Vader loading screens in your medieval empire simulator?
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Nov 28, 2019 11:48
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I'm glad I don't know what are you alluding to.
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Nov 28, 2019 12:14
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I would have gone with "How do you feel about sexual toothbrushing and incest."
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Nov 28, 2019 18:39
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