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They were menaced, by a phantom. No wait
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Nov 28, 2019 06:37
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Schwarzwald posted:"I thought the story was bad until someone explained it to me very simple terms" is a hell of a take. It’s the exact same story except they replaced Jake Lloyd with a frowning emoji.
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Nov 28, 2019 06:37
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Nov 28, 2019 06:55
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DeimosRising posted:People totally unfamiliar with cults, monasteries, religious orders, military orders etc. just no sense of history, or of human culture beyond snide, detached affluent America Affluent America is the worst culture ever, aside from all the other ones. Also it's kind of weird Anakin never bothered to spring his mom. He had no problem breaking Jedi rules.
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Nov 28, 2019 07:06
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Pollyanna posted:What I’m hearing here is that it’s good that the Jedi fell. But also, This line of thinking is, in all honesty, terrifying to me.
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Nov 28, 2019 07:20
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theblackw0lf posted:This simultaneously impressed me (for how tragic Anakin’s story is in TPM) and angered me in how poorly it was told). Reading this makes me more sympathetic to Anakin saying “gently caress the jedi” That certainly is the story of the prequels, yes.
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Nov 28, 2019 07:26
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porfiria posted:Affluent America is the worst culture ever, aside from all the other ones. Anakin did go to spring his mom at what was reasonably implied to be his first possible opportunity. It ended badly.
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Nov 28, 2019 07:47
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Shiroc posted:Anakin did go to spring his mom at what was reasonably implied to be his first possible opportunity. It ended badly. Years after the Naboo situation was resolved is not the "first possible opportunity" by any same definition.
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Nov 28, 2019 07:50
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kidkissinger posted:Years after the Naboo situation was resolved is not the "first possible opportunity" by any same definition. Padawans don't get vacations.
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Nov 28, 2019 07:53
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He would have been tied to Obi-Wan for those 10 years and being the consummate end of the Old Republic Jedi, Obi-Wan never would have let him. It was the first possible opportunity where Anakin alone could decide to do it and he still was hesitating because of the Jedi indoctrination not to do anything about it.
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Nov 28, 2019 07:54
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Bongo Bill posted:Padawans don't get vacations. Child slaves abducted by a religious cult*
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Nov 28, 2019 07:56
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You're proving his point.
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Nov 28, 2019 09:29
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Pollyanna posted:The iron faked me out. I really thought that was a fuckin' ship. You aren't helping my dementia.
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Nov 28, 2019 10:54
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C-Bangin' it 
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Shiroc posted:He would have been tied to Obi-Wan for those 10 years and being the consummate end of the Old Republic Jedi, Obi-Wan never would have let him. It was the first possible opportunity where Anakin alone could decide to do it and he still was hesitating because of the Jedi indoctrination not to do anything about it. You know, a failure of the PT that I hadn't really considered before now is that Obi-Wan is supposed to come across as an inflexible, controlling, cultish handler that's actually hurting Anakin but because Anakin keeps doing stupid boneheaded stuff like leaping hundreds of yards down through traffic, and the fact that Ewan McGregor is just inherently likable and hams up some of the doofier bits of the material ("Hello there!") and you end up agreeing with Obi-Wan over angry, impulsive, emolord Anakin most of the time. If they had played up Obi-Wan's dickishness, and maybe even explored the "is he making moves on Padme" angle a bit more, Anakin's characterization and turn maybe wouldn't have come across as poorly as it did. Ah well.
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Nov 28, 2019 12:27
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Anakin: Please help, I think someone close to me is gonna suffer and die soon. Yoda: Dying is good, actually.
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Nov 28, 2019 12:48
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Mooey Cow posted:Anakin: Please help, I think someone close to me is gonna suffer and die soon. Well, 900 years of experiencing real world poo poo I'd look forward to it too.
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Nov 28, 2019 13:02
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Mooey Cow posted:Anakin: Please help, I think someone close to me is gonna suffer and die soon. The visions are used to convey that Anakin is afraid of any sort of personal loss, so Yoda was actually on topic here. It's not like Palpatine convinces Anakin by telling him the story of Darth Plagueis discovering the occult arts of quality midwifery. That's the problem with Star Wars using quick dramatic shifts (Han going back to the Death Star, Vader's redemption, Anakin joining Palaptine and immediately starting to kill younglings, etc.) as a substitute for what would in real life be much slower affairs, you end up with a part of the audience not buying into it because they can't accept the intended storytelling method. They could have used the same plot beat by having Padme have her first gray hair or whatever, but that's obviously too pedestrian for what is supposed to be a big fantasy epic. YaketySass fucked around with this message at 13:22 on Nov 28, 2019 |
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Nov 28, 2019 13:19
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Yoda talks a lot about fear but is himself so afraid of the Dark Side that he forgets all about that whole "compassion" thing, both for Anakin, and the subject of Anakin's premonitions supposedly about suffer horribly, thus helping the Dark Side win. It's self-fulfilling prophecies all the way down.
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Nov 28, 2019 14:05
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anakin is afraid of any personal loss because of what happened to his mother and the 'no attachments' nonsense the cult that kidnapped him preach means he's unable to deal with it in any kind of healthy way, yoda might be 'on topic' but all he's dishing out are detached platitudes
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Nov 28, 2019 14:30
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I kinda interpreted it as Yoda and Anakin talking past each other - Anakin can't just come out and say "Hey, I'm worried about my secret wife dying in childbirth" because, hey, secret wife, but because of that, Yoda doesn't recognize that he's worried about something specific or that he's not just dealing with general trauma caused by being a frontline soldier, and so can't offer him any real advice. Now, that's not excusing Yoda - he's the face of the Jedi orthodoxy that's created this situation where Anakin has to hide his family from the people he's supposed to trust - but he's only offering detached platitudes because Anakin's only asking vague questions.
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Nov 28, 2019 14:42
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oh yeah, that's 100% what's going on
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Nov 28, 2019 14:44
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theblackw0lf posted:This simultaneously impressed me (for how tragic Anakin’s story is in TPM) and angered me in how poorly it was told). Reading this makes me more sympathetic to Anakin saying “gently caress the jedi” All of this is literally text in the films
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Nov 28, 2019 15:05
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asecondduck posted:You know, a failure of the PT that I hadn't really considered before now is that Obi-Wan is supposed to come across as an inflexible, controlling, cultish handler that's actually hurting Anakin but because Anakin keeps doing stupid boneheaded stuff like leaping hundreds of yards down through traffic, and the fact that Ewan McGregor is just inherently likable and hams up some of the doofier bits of the material ("Hello there!") and you end up agreeing with Obi-Wan over angry, impulsive, emolord Anakin most of the time. But that’s not the story. The idea isn’t that Obi-Wan or the other Jedi are personally cruel or abusive. Rather, they’re all working within a rotten system, and it is so familiar and normal to them that they don’t question it and don’t understand why anyone would. Obi-Wan's a decent dude who's doing his best to live up to the expectations set for him. So are Mace and Yoda and Padmé (the arch-liberal). The point being made in the prequels is that, by making the decision to protect the world they know, all these people nevertheless produce evil. Mace turns the Jedi into the warriors he swore they could never be. Yoda puts them in charge of a slave army. Padmé betrays her anti-war convictions once she can convince herself that defeating the separatists is just like liberating her home planet. Obi-Wan strives to be the consummate Jedi as a reaction to his father figure's death, and he succeeds, but that only leads to tragedy because it's completely inappropriate for Anakin's needs.
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Nov 28, 2019 15:24
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That twitter thread does raise the interesting possibility that the prequel trilogy would have been better as a picture book than as movies.
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Nov 28, 2019 15:54
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Zoran posted:But that’s not the story. The idea isn’t that Obi-Wan or the other Jedi are personally cruel or abusive. Rather, they’re all working within a rotten system, and it is so familiar and normal to them that they don’t question it and don’t understand why anyone would. Obi-Wan's a decent dude who's doing his best to live up to the expectations set for him. So are Mace and Yoda and Padmé (the arch-liberal). So the Jedi are like the Catholic priests of the universe and they train up impressionable little boys?
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Nov 28, 2019 15:57
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pospysyl posted:That twitter thread does raise the interesting possibility that the prequel trilogy would have been better as a picture book than as movies. I disagree heavily, if for no other reason then duel of the fates is one of my favorite pieces of music
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Nov 28, 2019 16:09
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asecondduck posted:You know, a failure of the PT that I hadn't really considered before now is that Obi-Wan is supposed to come across as an inflexible, controlling, cultish handler that's actually hurting Anakin but because Anakin keeps doing stupid boneheaded stuff like leaping hundreds of yards down through traffic, and the fact that Ewan McGregor is just inherently likable and hams up some of the doofier bits of the material ("Hello there!") and you end up agreeing with Obi-Wan over angry, impulsive, emolord Anakin most of the time. That's the thing, though, Anakin isn't naturally impulsive or boneheaded. He's typically quite reticent, and has to be goaded at several points. Obi-Wan is the one who jumps out a 100+ story window to Anakin's objections, and when Anakin does something similar soon after, it's because he's following Obi-Wan example. YaketySass posted:The visions are used to convey that Anakin is afraid of any sort of personal loss, so Yoda was actually on topic here. It's not like Palpatine convinces Anakin by telling him the story of Darth Plagueis discovering the occult arts of quality midwifery. The best part of that scene is that Palpatine starts out telling that fable with the intention of portraying the Jedi as (unnaturally) clinging to power out of cowardice, but effortless switches tracks to "uh, sure the force can keep people from dying..." as soon as he sees that's what has Anakin's interest. I can imagine him trying to explain the value of hard work through the story of the three little pigs only to end with, "the force could absolutely blow a house down. But you wouldn't learn that from a Jedi." Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Nov 28, 2019 |
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Nov 28, 2019 16:25
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Yeah, Obi-Wan is the one doing all kinds of stupid poo poo and then telling Anakin not to do it. It's great.
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Nov 28, 2019 17:29
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Just to join the Last Jedi hate-in... Any proper Star Wars movie should be able to be retold as a medieval fantasy and still function on a basic plot level. ANH is the epitome of this - farmboy, rogue, black knight, princess in a castle, etc etc. TLJ had none of this. Aside from the Luke-Rey stuff (which was still handled poorly), the main plot had no archetypes or mythos to speak of. Like a previous poster said, it was closer to Battlestar Galactica. Lightspeed, for example, should never have been a plot point in a SW movie. It's a plot device shorthand for "...And then our heroes traveled for many days and nights." Something like the hyperdrive being sabotaged in Empire, for example, is analogous to a wagon's wheels being broken. The whole "hyperspeed tracking" plot of TLJ makes no sense in that context, it's far too techy. Same with the "Holdo maneuver."
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Nov 28, 2019 18:03
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The Holdo maneuver is roughly analogous to a ship ramming an opposing fleet and setting its powder aflame to protect it's flotilla. Like the defeat of the Spanish Armada in Elizabeth
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Nov 28, 2019 18:29
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pospysyl posted:That twitter thread does raise the interesting possibility that the prequel trilogy would have been better as a picture book than as movies. There are undoubtedly picture books for the PT in existence. iamsosmrt posted:So the Jedi are like the Catholic priests of the universe and they train up impressionable little boys? More Templars mixed with Shaolin, but yes.
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Nov 28, 2019 20:49
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Can we all at least agree that the shot of the ship going light speed through the destroyer was cool as gently caress? Also the more I go through Thanksgiving this year, the more Ren’s “let it all die” viewpoint appeals to me. Captain Jesus posted:This line of thinking is, in all honesty, terrifying to me. 
Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Nov 28, 2019 |
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Nov 28, 2019 21:35
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John Wick of Dogs posted:All of this is literally text in the films "Here's a bunch of mannequins walking through the plot, any emotional content is left as an exercise for the Pollyanna posted:Can we all at least agree that the shot of the ship going light speed through the destroyer was cool as gently caress? It's easily the best shot in all of Star Wars, and it's my firm (  ) belief that Johnson nicked it from Shane Carruth's never-made A TOPIARY script. quote:ANOTHER WORLD Johnson definitely read A TOPIARY so 
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Nov 28, 2019 21:51
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It felt very anime, in a good way.
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Nov 28, 2019 22:00
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Pollyanna posted:Also the more I go through Thanksgiving this year, the more Ren’s “let it all die” viewpoint appeals to me. Same but It's a shame that was all bs and he goes back to being an evil dark lord 5 minutes later
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Nov 28, 2019 22:48
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Shiroc posted:Anakin did go to spring his mom at what was reasonably implied to be his first possible opportunity. It ended badly. Why did the tusken raiders torture her anyway?
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Nov 28, 2019 23:16
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Hatter106 posted:Just to join the Last Jedi hate-in... Why do you believe a "proper" star wars has to do this? Seems to me itd be boring to constrain a sci-fi universe to only having shiny looking medieval tropes in it
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Nov 28, 2019 23:34
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Clipperton posted:"Here's a bunch of mannequins walking through the plot, any emotional content is left as an exercise for the All the characters are very emotional. They just aren’t displaying the emotions you want them to. Like, the twitter comic is arguing that 10-years-old Anakin should be furious at the idea of becoming a superhero astronaut, instead of a slave with a bomb in his head. What you and the comic are demanding is for someone to step in and tell you how you are, officially, supposed to feel. In other words, you expected Anakin to be George Lucas’ omniscient self-insert character - screaming morality at the audience. But, instead, Anakin gets a rad spaceship and happily kills 3 million people. After blowing up the enemy mothership, yellow becomes his favorite colour of fighter jet. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Nov 29, 2019 |
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Nov 28, 2019 23:43
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Anakin is like, 11, right? I would assume he wouldn't really start questioning his life, his mom's treatment, and how he got to be a jedi until his teens which huh, is exactly what happens in the movies
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Nov 28, 2019 23:46
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Freakazoid_ posted:Why did the tusken raiders torture her anyway? Something something white woman something something "sand people" something Lucas something jar jar something something killed them all
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Nov 29, 2019 00:14
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