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TACD posted:I’m no master debater ( Oh man there was one part where the libertarian dude (who I swear to god looked like he was 50 years old) said "Look at the difference in healthcare between the VA and the Kaiser Foundation." When I went to point out the class differences between the people who use those services, he literally shouted me down before I could say anything. Then after the debate me and another libertarian had an hours long political discussion where at the end he offered to sell me weed.
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Nov 29, 2019 02:02
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) but his comeback to you didn’t make any goddamn sense
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Nov 29, 2019 02:12
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JordanKai posted:
As a long time lurker who only really posts when I feel it's needed I have to say - why the gently caress are you all ignoring this? It seems to indicate a trend I've noticed in my rare postings that calls to actual action are ignored - I've posted a few times letting people know about good activist events that could use numbers, and been roundly ignored each time. I know this comes off as bitter but it's never bothered me - people are busy and may not have time for what I'm pushing. But it does bother me when someone is asking for help with something that this thread could be a huge resource for, with very little effort. You all really need to engage with this sort of thing more as it's one of the few things a (very solid, very good generally) online community is actually practically useful for. Anyway, off the top of my head: - The antisemitic mural - Association with Hamas and Hezbollah, calling them 'friends'. - Criticism of Israel, obviously. - That time he quoted a very famous book by someone or other that a million politicians have quoted but has an antisemitic bit in it (I'm sure someone can remind us of the title) - Mishandling of antisemitism in Labour itself. The best arguments here would, imo, be related to the change in process that he's brought about and the actually quite low levels of antisemitism in Labour compared to general society. There are also accusations of investigations into AS being interfered with by the leadership and people close to it (Milne et al.), but I don't know enough to help with that as of now. This is a really great idea and should be supported by people who engage properly in parliamentary politics far more than I do, like this thread. Good on you JordanKai, if you need any help with research or editing or anything, PM me, I'm not a terrible writer when I put my mind to it and quite like researching stuff.
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Nov 29, 2019 02:15
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RottenK posted:"muh soros money" is a nazi talking point with no relation to reality One of the axioms of Liberal foreign policy thought is that Western "Imperialism" (always in scare quotes directly or by tone) doesn't exist and is a fringe leftist conspiracy. Any explanation for events that uses in full or in part is ipso facto wrong. This is how liberals have been the most wrong political faction regarding all things for the past 150 years.
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Nov 29, 2019 02:18
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JordanKai posted:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vR-tiGv2w89fnqY1_cPygN8VlP4uROfF9ys8THXB1p0r-UTAPgmx5g3pgWfr-aeo3G3Ka1S-bbtmD1w/pub edit: Misread your question, the above link is evidence that he's not a racist/anti-semite, not what you asked for which was the things people are pointing to to paint him as one. I'll leave it though anyway as it might be useful to someone.
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Nov 29, 2019 02:23
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There turned out to be nothing in Corbyn's past conduct that was scandalous enough to oust him for so they had to manufacture something. They went with the anti-semitism smear machine imported wholesale from US politics 20 years ago 
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Nov 29, 2019 02:25
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Part of me feels like Corbyn should reprise his stunt from 2017 and come to tomorrows debate in person instead of sending RLB. Yes, sucks for her and a 7-way debate is a clusterfuck, but after Johnson's no-show today and his refusal to do Andrew Neil a narrative is starting to form that he's a coward. Having him be the only missing leader again would be nice, Corbyn gets a bit more exposure, and any comments from other parties about avoiding scrutiny can only be directed at Johnson. Probably won't happen, but it would be nice.
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Nov 29, 2019 02:28
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One thing I've seen but haven't heard anything about is how the brexit party, like UKIP, has completely crashed once the grift seems to be up.
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Nov 29, 2019 02:30
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That article is nonsense in every way. Not only is there little reason to trust the polling in the first place, but also, when you're not the largest party you by definition have to fight offensively in an election if you want to win it. You're not going to win anything by playing D. Like, maybe we're going to lose (We're not going to lose) but we're sure as poo poo not going to win if we don't target, you know, seats we need to win. And ultimately it doesn't make a difference once we're talking about 70~ seats anyway; if we're going to lose that badly we're not going to change anything significant by reducing it to a loss of 50 seats or something so we may as well give it our all and go for broke. Also some memory holing going on with how things happened in the 2017 GE, like claiming Johnson is more popular when May was "the most popular PM ever!" and the Tories started out polling higher.  Also, is it me or are there way more debates this time around? There's one every couple of days. Which is great because Corbyn, though not exactly a font of charisma, plays better when he gets to be seen directly, whilst Johnson is making GBS threads the bed in spectacular fashion.
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Nov 29, 2019 02:33
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Bardeh posted:https://twitter.com/michaelgove/status/1200166068741902337 lmao why would his staff post this? Not only does he come over as a pathetic idiot but the camera work makes it look like a bit from The Thick of It. You could just cut the bit to camera at the end, stick a Momentum outro there and post it as a Labour ad.
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Nov 29, 2019 02:40
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big scary monsters posted:lmao why would his staff post this? Not only does he come over as a pathetic idiot but the camera work makes it look like a bit from The Thick of It. You could just cut the bit to camera at the end, stick a Momentum outro there and post it as a Labour ad. The raucous booing on entrance and heckling on exit 
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Nov 29, 2019 02:43
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jabby posted:https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1200181142135197700 I read this tweet as a joke and laughed at it
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Nov 29, 2019 02:44
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big scary monsters posted:lmao why would his staff post this? Not only does he come over as a pathetic idiot but the camera work makes it look like a bit from The Thick of It. You could just cut the bit to camera at the end, stick a Momentum outro there and post it as a Labour ad. His way of addressing that Channel 4 editor and the cadence of his speech really made me think we were going to get a real-life; "I used to be a journalist. For The Times. I wrote two articles about trees...I can be the one to do the big debate." Alas not, but it felt like it came within a whisker
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Nov 29, 2019 02:45
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Thinking about it, and after him trying to take a pop at Stormzy the other day, maybe he runs his own Twitter account. I can absolutely believe that Gove would think he comes across as the calm, sensible adult in the room and this is a great burn on the other parties.
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Nov 29, 2019 02:45
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Did this Galaxy O'Brain stopped clock moment get shared? Cos it's not bad. 
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Nov 29, 2019 02:45
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Lord of the Llamas posted:So the same strategy as the Tory campaign then? Lmao God drat
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Nov 29, 2019 02:46
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TACD posted:This article goes into some detail about all the supposed offences, though to be honest I’d be surprised if most of the people who think he’s antisemitic can name even one specific allegation rather than just some general propaganda-driven feelings. Maybe this isn’t useful, I’d just add keep in mind how this narrative has shaped over time and why it sticks. The claim that there is antisemitism within the Labour party is true. That it’s endemic within Labour or as has been implied acceptable within the top ranks or that it’s not taken seriously is generally how it’s framed however, which is crap. That it’s also true for the tories and lib dems and the SNP is almost immaterial. Going forward the idea is that with Labour under Corbyn you have antisemitism and with the tories under Boris it’s islamophobia. So we get poo poo like, Labour are only bringing up this NHS to distract from their own problems etc; this also soften's Boris actions and obfuscates racism as an idealogical component within british society with some south park both parties are poo poo narrative, it’s absolute loving wank. Like, there's a perverse kind of hypocrisy in Andrew Neil interviewing Corbyn on the BBC about antisemitism within the Labour party, considering his role with The Spectator and Boris run as it’s editor.
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Nov 29, 2019 02:54
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Best area in the Manchester area to dramatically walk around while listening to Nick Drake? Asking for a friend.
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Nov 29, 2019 03:17
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Junior G-man posted:Seriously, we have no idea how we did this but the podcast just broke 10k downloads. I’m actually loving scunnered trying to understand why you lot actually listen to something that I participate in  Thank you every single one of you that’s listened, helped out behind the scenes, participated in the cooperative process, donated to the [ninja turtles theme]  Naptime Blairite Tory Trust Fund and everyone that’s just generally been awesome about getting a dumb goon project off the ground to the point where we’re actually in the process of scheduling a guest slot with loving Grace Blakely lmaoAlso, remember that it’s an open project of the UKMT and if you want to participate in any way just hit us up in the discord. Still to come Episode 18 (part 2) in which we talk a shitload more about the manifesto and then play a v good game of CoC Episode 19 which was recorded tonight where we talk a general news roundup and go into some details on the NHS trade leak and Polls using MRP (polls are bad) Episode 20 in which some of us will talk about all things gender, and where I’m looking forward to having my ignorant cis rear end schooled on trans & NB issues Episode 20 in which we have our first guest from another podcast, Trashfutures own Nate, where we’re going to discuss antisemitism and labour (making GBS threads myself for the edit on this one, ngl) Episode 21, more news and the last episode before the election, who knows what chaos Cum Tzu will have unleashed by this point, we’ll find out by reading his racist rear end blog roll (the blog roll is for wiping his racist rear end) (we will not read his loving blog, we came close once in readying by proxy and that was more than enough) And then we have the election livestream! After the livestream we’ll probably take a week off and then we’ll be looking at sorting out some guest spots in whatever the post election environment is, a tentative list of which is Grace Blakely, Riley from TF and likely one with maybe Jack or Geraint from Reel Politik (tbc). There’s a load of other maybes and a huge bank of topics we want to look at doing deep dives into, but for now we’re looking no further ahead than the livestream. I’ve just realised how many words I’ve written but I can’t sleep for this loving cold I’ve picked up, sorry! Tl;dr Thanks for the help, pod could well get better going forward!
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Nov 29, 2019 04:38
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They are shook as gently caress. Don't back down now, comrades. The only reason the melts in the party would be trying to get Corbyn to end the offensive is because it's working.
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Nov 29, 2019 06:04
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Impressed that David has managed to develop time manipulation powers so that the pod will be releasing two episode 20s, that'll really make us stand out from the crowd
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Nov 29, 2019 06:10
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Sanitary Naptime posted:I’m actually loving scunnered trying to understand why you lot actually listen to something that I participate in Ye've an accent that uses the word "scunnered" so that's enough for me to listen no matter what But also it's a show that both amuses and helps me understanding goings-on I may have missed or subjects I may not be read up on. And various people having breakdowns as they play Comment or Commentariat, or listen to Lib Dem policies that hinge on Labour forming a govenrment, are an endless source of hilarity.
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Nov 29, 2019 06:12
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Rarity posted:They are shook as gently caress. Don't back down now, comrades. The only reason the melts in the party would be trying to get Corbyn to end the offensive is because it's working. Can’t wait for the Labour PLP to call for Corbyn resignation because he didn’t make gains in the last election.
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Nov 29, 2019 07:20
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Genuinely in awe of "don't try to gain seats in an election" being presented as sane advice lol.
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Nov 29, 2019 07:25
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jabby posted:Part of me feels like Corbyn should reprise his stunt from 2017 and come to tomorrows debate in person instead of sending RLB. Yeah, this really should happen. I realise the risks involved, but he did well last night when there was no Tory – and this time the Tories are actually putting up a fall guy. I'm not in the "yeah the polls will tighten" gang. I think they can, but Labour need to be going all out at this point doing stuff like this. It might go wrong, but Corbyn could well be out in two weeks anyway at the current rate. People underestimate how ballsy the 2017 campaign was, in order to pull off the result it did.
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Nov 29, 2019 07:28
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OwlFancier posted:Genuinely in awe of "don't try to gain seats in an election" being presented as sane advice lol. My favourite is the melt who quit Labour to go and work for YouGov and then claim his company's output is good advice. Presumably he's a Blairite twat
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Nov 29, 2019 07:29
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JordanKai posted:
Part of the problem seems to be that there is no definite proof that Corbyn himself has intentionally said anything anti-semitic, and accusations of him are always vague, or along the lines of association i.e he was in various pro-Palestine groups among whose membership there were some antisemites (or who have said antisemitic things), but the most common one is that "he's allowed AS to fester in the party", either by inaction (he or his staff sitting on, or supressing investigations into AS), or by subversion - ("Momentum/Leftist thugs" making things difficult on twitter for Jewish MPs) - creating an atmosphere where Jewish members are not welcome. I know it's not really what you wanted, but here's some articles in regard to AS in Labour, where you might find some of the smears (debunked or printed outright): Opendemocracy Grazia Daily The Atlantic I mean, the ultimate crux of this is his pro-Palestine support, and the deliberate conflation of criticisms of the Israeli government policy with antisemitism - with purposely bad faith interpretations of everything he does. There's media complicity in this, also. Two Tories were suspended this week for AS, and Theresa May unveiled a statue of a literal goddamn fash. Barely a loving blip in the news. --- [e]: And congrats Pod people for hitting the 10k mark  Re: the polls, it is amusing to read that this is somehow both going to be a majority Tory victory where Labour make zero gains...but also Johnson and a few other major Tories are seriously at risk of losing their seats where there is a 5000+ vote gap to cover (in Johnson's case). Like, if the shifts are that drastic, then there's everything still to play for. Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 07:36 on Nov 29, 2019 |
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Nov 29, 2019 07:29
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I literally just woke up in a cold sweat from a nightmare about chuka umunna. He won his seat... But only by making a deal to remove his face.
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Nov 29, 2019 07:50
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Good username/post combo although you could do with stepping away from politics if you're dreaming about a non entity like Chuka.
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Nov 29, 2019 07:54
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Necrothatcher posted:I literally just woke up in a cold sweat from a nightmare about chuka umunna. He won his seat... But only by making a deal to remove his face. "Chuka Umana won not only the leadership of the labour party in a surprise coup against Comrade Corbyn, but the election" how's that?
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Nov 29, 2019 07:59
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You are right. Man, even my dreams are square.
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Nov 29, 2019 07:59
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Necrothatcher posted:I literally just woke up in a cold sweat from a nightmare about chuka umunna. He won his seat... But only by making a deal to remove his face. I would also awaken in a cold sweat, god in heaven  OwlFancier posted:Genuinely in awe of "don't try to gain seats in an election" being presented as sane advice lol. It's honestly got powerful Cum Tzu energy about it, did he infiltrate? Friend of mine came home to find he got robbed yesterday, they cleared them out. Fortunately everyone including the cats are physically fine, but it's well poo poo. 
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Nov 29, 2019 08:00
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Necrothatcher posted:I literally just woke up in a cold sweat from a nightmare about chuka umunna. He won his seat... But only by making a deal to remove his face.  Have you tou̥̼͕̠̠͠g̯̪̫̞͚̮ͅht͉̖ ͇̩̤͎͓̺a҉b̥̘̟̝͍o͚̹̳̠̖̙ṵ͇̜̞t͚̯ ̮̙̣͟a̩̬̦͇̥͚ ̣̙͚̖̳s̸̻̩̱͓͓̠k̪̹̥͓i͉͎̞̠l̮ḽ̹͇̺̭s̢ ̗̰̲̼͉w̗͇͞ą͙l̸̼̘͔̞l̗̫e̡̩͈͇̰̝t̸͈̞͕̪͉̬̗?̧̹̜̳̠̼̮̠ It̹͉̝̠̝ͅ'͖ļ͈̠̲̥l̡̰̗̩̱̰̭ ̤̤̖o̭n͈̹͙̪͠l̦y̨̰̱͇̫ ̼͙̳̮̳̼͕c̼o͙̙̝̫͙̣şṯ͡ ͈̮̤̰͟ͅy̯o̖͖͙̫ͅų̹͓͖̪r̪͚̹͙̠ ̨͎̙f̪͈̟̩ͅac͈̜̭̩͍̯̀e̟͔̫̪͢
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Nov 29, 2019 08:14
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Michael Gove not knowing the difference between a definite article and a proposition has gone down well with the teaching fraternity, who have suffered since his stint as Education Secretary and have to teach that specific example to 6 and 7 year olds, in spite of evidence that it is a loving stupid idea
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Nov 29, 2019 08:17
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Pesky Splinter posted:("Momentum/Leftist thugs" making things difficult on twitter for Jewish MPs) - creating an atmosphere where Jewish members are not welcome. Pesky Splinter posted:a statue of a literal goddamn fash. Barely a loving blip in the news.
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Nov 29, 2019 08:56
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The kind of ego death that Chuka is going to get when he finds out that people didn’t vote for him, but for the party, is going to be something
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Nov 29, 2019 09:02
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JordanKai posted:
Phone posting so links are hard but the pinned tweet on Rachel Riley's Twitter is a bunch of links to the "evidence" of Corbyn's antisemitism.
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Nov 29, 2019 09:03
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Kind of off topic but on twitter mobile in the 'For You' tab it used to be that when I scrolled down I'd get a bunch of recommended accounts to follow under the 'because you follow' section under things like 'comedians' and 'video games' etc but for the last week or so that whole part isn't there anymore. Has anyone else noticed this? I mean it's reduced the amount of Emma Kennedy tweets I'm exposed to to 0 which is a good thing but I did use that feature quite a lot.
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Nov 29, 2019 09:05
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Jakabite posted:As a long time lurker who only really posts when I feel it's needed I have to say - why the gently caress are you all ignoring this? because it's a dumb idea but no-one wants to call well-intentioned people dumb until you forced the issue. the corbyn antisemitism thing has not become this big of a thing through lack of rebuttals also because any forum selects heavily for people who want to talk rather than do. sometimes it feels like one step up from putting a semi-transparent flag on your facebook profile pic, but that's what open forums are for. coffeetable fucked around with this message at 09:19 on Nov 29, 2019 |
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Nov 29, 2019 09:08
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Quite amazing that they're crying about impartiality in the media after the propaganda poo poo show we're witness to from the BBC every day. It's quite delicious actually and it's gonna be a red goddamn Christmas
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Nov 29, 2019 09:10
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