|
Groovelord Neato posted:People saying "don't go crazy" isn't foreshadowing when the show itself frames things that are supposed to be clues to her degeneration as triumphant. Like what?
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2019 17:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 20:12 |
|
|
Everything she did was treated as triumphant what do you mean "Like what?"
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2019 17:20
|
|
|
I think you're all forgetting the wonderful way they wrapped up the Hound in this series. I mean, he got to die the way he would have wanted. In a fire.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2019 17:31
|
|
|
Groovelord Neato posted:Everything she did was treated as triumphant what do you mean "Like what?" You can't even name one?
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2019 17:31
|
|
|
Crucifying the masters would be an early one. Burning the Tarlys would be another. What a weird thing to put this on me.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2019 17:33
|
|
|
Groovelord Neato posted:Crucifying the masters would be an early one. Burning the Tarlys would be another. What a weird thing to put this on me. ...and you saw those as triumphant moments instead of troubling ones, huh They both had characters outright talking about how hosed up those moments were. What makes them "triumphant" to you?
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2019 17:34
|
|
|
Weird you'd quote a post and respond to it without reading it but I guess that explains this discussion.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2019 17:36
|
|
|
thexerox123 posted:...and you saw those as triumphant moments instead of troubling ones, huh The dipshits in charge of running the show sure did
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2019 17:36
|
|
|
Groovelord Neato posted:Weird you'd quote a post and respond to it without reading it but I guess that explains this discussion. Those moments were both clearly portrayed as her going too far. Edit: I will say that crucifying the slave masters is portrayed as triumphant at first, but mostly so that whatshisname could come in and tell her how hosed up, hypocritical, and indiscriminate she was being. The Tarly moment was just flat-out horrific, though. thexerox123 fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Nov 29, 2019 |
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2019 17:37
|
|
|
The Dark Project posted:I think you're all forgetting the wonderful way they wrapped up the Hound in this series. I mean, he got to die the way he would have wanted. I still can't believe they gave us Clegane Bowl just because it was a popular joke on the internet. edit: Also that I predicted exactly how they'd write it like two years before it happened.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2019 18:10
|
|
|
All her moments in Essos were her going too far and then learning that her actions had serious consequences that she hadn't foreseen, taking those consequences to heart, and thereafter taking a more measured, compromising stance in those matters. Like locking up her dragons when they murder a child, figuring out a compromise that lets a former slave re-enter a bondage status (with more rights and protections than he'd had before), and re-opening the fighting pits so that people can make names for themselves. Then when Tyrion the Ruling Wonderboy shows up he takes actions that are designed to be clearly more measured and less tyrannical and they detonate and explode in his face and it takes Daenerys laying down some fire and blood to actually make the changes she's made in Slaver's Bay stick for good. And despite the fact that every one of Tyrion's clever schemes to put Daenerys on the Iron Throne wind up backfiring and costing Daenerys severely (sailing up Reach and Dornish forces getting taken out by Allegedly Competent Euron, taking Casterly Rock being pre-anticipated by Jaime and him maneuvering his army to eliminate the Tyrells, and trusting Cersei to adhere to her word about marching forces north to save Westeros), she's still portrayed as being unreasonable for getting angry at Tyrion, who in the last few seasons does pretty much literally nothing right.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2019 18:30
|
|
|
She should've killed all the masters imo.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2019 18:49
|
|
|
The Dark Project posted:I think you're all forgetting the wonderful way they wrapped up the Hound in this series. I mean, he got to die the way he would have wanted.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2019 19:34
|
|
|
Groovelord Neato posted:She should've killed all the masters imo. Yeah, if she made a mistake there it was this.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2019 20:50
|
|
|
You think if Strong Belwas was in the show would he have been killed off or gone full evil with Dany?
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2019 20:59
|
|
|
Well I can't imagine GRRM ever said "by the way, Strong Belwas..." so I imagine that he'd have died from the poisoned locusts so D&D wouldn't have to make any further decisions
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2019 21:04
|
|
thexerox123 posted:The Tarly moment was just flat-out horrific, though. Keep in mind that the Tarly's were Tyrell bannermen, who betrayed Dany to the Lannisters. She wasn't just killing random POWs; she executed traitors. Ned Stark would have cut off their heads without a second thought.
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2019 21:05
|
|
|
SimonChris posted:Keep in mind that the Tarly's were Tyrell bannermen, who betrayed Dany to the Lannisters. Yea that's just how the Targs executed traitors and criminals for thousands of years, same way that the other houses would either hang or behead you. Also I feel like getting hit by a direct 1000 degree blast of flame would be over quicker than hanging. If she'd done that to regular surrendered infantry that would have been much more of an effective sign that she was on the road to burning a million innocent people in King's Landing.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2019 21:14
|
|
|
I mean the lead up to that was bad writing - the houses should've all turned against the Lannisters after the sept thing.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2019 21:22
|
|
|
punk rebel ecks posted:It was stupid because her breaking wasn't built at all. "But she executed people!", so what? That's literally how the main characters are introduced.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2019 21:44
|
|
|
Just Chamber posted:Yea that's just how the Targs executed traitors and criminals for thousands of years, same way that the other houses would either hang or behead you. Also I feel like getting hit by a direct 1000 degree blast of flame would be over quicker than hanging. Wasn't the Tarly's thing more of a "better the devil you know" reasoning to back the Lannisters after the Reach fell? edit: Not like it matters, but the Tarly's backed the Targs during Robert's Rebellion as well, including Randyl dishing out one of Robert's major defeats. In short, the Tarly's are a house of contrasts. Solice Kirsk fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Nov 29, 2019 |
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2019 22:34
|
|
|
The thing is the slavers were objectively evil people who probably deserved worse. They literally crucified innocent children for shits and giggles and for all that guys protestations about his dad being "against" it he was still perfectly fine going along with it and continuing his life as a rich slave lord while opposing Dany up until the moment she won. Likewise killing the Tarlys was one of those dumb things where suddenly everyone cares about the Dany and Dany alone following the Geneva Conventions despite Jon Snow beheading mutineers a season ago. Plus really, the Tarly's? The man had just committed high treason against his lord not two minutes ago and was refusing to surrender. If anything it's nonsensical that everyone wasn't badgering Dany to kill him faster.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2019 00:28
|
|
|
galagazombie posted:Plus really, the Tarly's? The man had just committed high treason against his lord not two minutes ago and was refusing to surrender. If anything it's nonsensical that everyone wasn't badgering Dany to kill him faster. But you see, this would require the showrunners to remember that there was political intrigue and ramifications like in the book series, Game of Thrones.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2019 00:45
|
|
|
Groovelord Neato posted:I mean the lead up to that was bad writing - the houses should've all turned against the Lannisters after the sept thing. yea which is why fake aegon can swoop in, if you're not just trying to get to your civil war retcon project
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2019 00:55
|
|
|
The Tarlys were defending their country against a foreign invader after their Lord had rebelled against the ruler of the 7 kingdoms. Execute them for refusing to bend the knee sure, but it's not an act that can be justified. We don't see many hostages taken in the story, and the ones that are taken tend to get murdered or released nonsensically, but that would be the most sensible route. It worked with Edmure (but maybe because he was so weak spirited).
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2019 01:04
|
|
|
Marmaduke! posted:The Tarlys were defending their country against a foreign invader after their Lord had rebelled against the ruler of the 7 kingdoms. Execute them for refusing to bend the knee sure, but it's not an act that can be justified. We don't see many hostages taken in the story, and the ones that are taken tend to get murdered or released nonsensically, but that would be the most sensible route. It worked with Edmure (but maybe because he was so weak spirited). This is the same universe where Cersei blew up their world's Vatican and all of her enemies with 0 consequences and 100% of the spoils.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2019 01:14
|
|
|
Dany's morality was made up at the end of Season 6, when she chose to take her new power base and use it to conquer Westeros instead of supporting her fledgling anti-slavery movement in Essos. She had a choice between the life and name she had built for herself fighting for the people who legitimately loved her or a land she had no connection to except her feudal inheritance. Westeros held nothing for her, but she chose to turn her forces towards the Iron Throne and ditch her revolution in the hands of some mercenary captain, leaving them without their main forces and still surrounded by hostile slaving powers (the formerly conquered cities in the Bay, but also city states like Braavos who profited from slave trading) who were already pulling the CIA deal. But that was her dad's chair, so... priorities. It's actually a perfect take down on her own, earlier White Savior depiction--she loves the poor and downtrodden, when they give her adoration and soldiers, but that relationship is always tilted towards her own goals. Sidenote: I really can't get past how little of a poo poo the show gave for the Dothraki. In Season 1, Dany learns that if she doesn't appreciate their culture as a force and learn to work within it, her attempts to impose her own mortality is only going to destroy her and her loved ones. In Season 8, she sacrifices tens of thousands of them, who she had personally pledged that they were all her blood riders (an action with enormous social ramifications!) and she does not give a poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2019 01:39
|
|
|
galagazombie posted:The thing is the slavers were objectively evil people who probably deserved worse. They literally crucified innocent children for shits and giggles and for all that guys protestations about his dad being "against" it he was still perfectly fine going along with it and continuing his life as a rich slave lord while opposing Dany up until the moment she won. Likewise killing the Tarlys was one of those dumb things where suddenly everyone cares about the Dany and Dany alone following the Geneva Conventions despite Jon Snow beheading mutineers a season ago. Plus really, the Tarly's? The man had just committed high treason against his lord not two minutes ago and was refusing to surrender. If anything it's nonsensical that everyone wasn't badgering Dany to kill him faster. This was my take -- it wasn't framed in the show as Dany going way over the top, it was framed as brutal measures for ruling a brutal country. I find it hard to judge her too harshly based on her treatment of literal billionaire slavers who did the exact same thing to a bunch of children a week before. And the Tarlys kinda had an execution coming, I can see basically any of the other rulers, even Ned, hanging or beheading a rebel lord who refuses to kneel. Stannis would have burned them alive too, probably, and it wouldn't be the relatively quick dragonfire burning, which doesn't honestly seem much worse than the traditional executions. Marmaduke! posted:The Tarlys were defending their country against a foreign invader after their Lord had rebelled against the ruler of the 7 kingdoms. Execute them for refusing to bend the knee sure, but it's not an act that can be justified. We don't see many hostages taken in the story, and the ones that are taken tend to get murdered or released nonsensically, but that would be the most sensible route. It worked with Edmure (but maybe because he was so weak spirited). I dunno, what exactly do you mean by "justified"? Like yeah, it's obviously a lovely thing to do to them, but under the feudal morality thing going on in Westeros it seems pretty "justifiable." She's the queen, she's the ruler of everything, it seems like it's her prerogative whether to keep them hostage or kill them for what amounts to treason against the "rightful" authority. At least she's not carving pieces off of them, or poisoning their family, or stabbing them in the middle of dinner.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2019 02:51
|
|
|
Also, and I realize I'm being a huge hypocrite because I just got sucked into it again and made another post: Can we stop talking about Game of Thrones forever? It's over and we don't have to think about it anymore. It ended so poorly that it retroactively made the rest of the show not worth talking about either. All we have to do is let this horrible thread slip down the subforum until it eventually gets closed.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2019 03:35
|
|
|
Nah talking about how badly they hosed it up will never get old.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2019 03:38
|
|
|
Groovelord Neato posted:Nah talking about how badly they hosed it up will never get old.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2019 03:48
|
|
|
Daenerys didn't choose to invade Westeros by herself, Tyrion and Varys, who were presented as being intelligent and just beyond reproach, literally sailed over and begged her to invade because they felt she was the best choice. If the story made any sense it should have been agreed by Jon and Team Dany that killing the known Evil Tyrant Queen and putting Dany on the Iron Throne, and using a little Fire and Blood to cement her position, so she could order the forces of the South to fight the White Walkers. Especially given that the show explicitly portrayed that taking the city with minimal civilian casualties was extremely possible, even before she had to deal with the threat of Super Scorpions. Instead the show cut the person who will be Dany's true enemy, fAegon, and had her oppose Cersei, and then wasted that by wasting Lena Heady and having her do nothing more than look out at King's Landing drinking wine.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2019 04:16
|
|
|
Groovelord Neato posted:Nah talking about how badly they hosed it up will never get old. Much like Melisandre! You know, up until she got super old and blew away. Because her prophecy came true....of Arya being Azor Ahai.....
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2019 04:17
|
|
|
Groovelord Neato posted:Nah talking about how badly they hosed it up will never get old.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2019 04:21
|
|
|
It is honestly kind of impressive how terrible Season 8 is. Like, to the point where I almost wanna buy the blu-rays just to hear the commentary from D&D. I need more of them in my life. Their Netflix deal should be a bigger budget version of Windy City Heat.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2019 04:50
|
|
|
Groovelord Neato posted:Nah talking about how badly they hosed it up will never get old.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2019 04:52
|
|
|
First they came for the slavers, and I did not speak out Because seriously, they were loving slavers, gently caress them
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2019 04:57
|
|
|
An insane mind posted:This show is dead, let it lie. Better go tell the threads for Twin Peaks, The Wire, The Sopranos, Babylon 5, etc that they have to stop posting too, some of those shows died years ago
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2019 05:03
|
|
|
Wafflecopper posted:Better go tell the threads for Twin Peaks, The Wire, The Sopranos, Babylon 5, etc that they have to stop posting too, some of those shows died years ago Those shows just stopped They aren’t actually dead
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2019 05:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 20:12 |
|
|
Box of Bunnies posted:First they came for the slavers, and I did not speak out I seriously let out a little groan when Tyrion pulled this bullshit with Jon. It's amazing how often people don't understand the quote is literally about how you should fight back against assholes like the literal slave lords, not some call to sit back and never try to hold anyone accountable for anything ever.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2019 06:38
|
|