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SystemLogoff posted:I thought Russ T. Told you in one of his hints?
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Nov 26, 2019 21:34
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Quackles posted:
I feel like something is missing or out of order here. You are talking about fighting the green shy guy to get a level, suddenly you are fighting the spy guy then you go for the green shy guy. (also holy poo poo that is a long update, I really feel this should have been split into two at some point)
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Nov 27, 2019 07:42
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mateo360 posted:I feel like something is missing or out of order here. You are talking about fighting the green shy guy to get a level, suddenly you are fighting the spy guy then you go for the green shy guy. Read the middle bit; it says he was gonna go after the green one, but got sniped. Also I'm good with long updates; follow your heart, Quackles.
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Nov 27, 2019 08:13
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mateo360 posted:I feel like something is missing or out of order here. You are talking about fighting the green shy guy to get a level, suddenly you are fighting the spy guy then you go for the green shy guy. Something is actually missing, mostly because I had a hard time capturing it. I couldn't get a screenshot of Mario getting sniped on the field. Sorry about that. Yapping Eevee posted:Also I'm good with long updates; follow your heart, Quackles. Yeah, that update hit the character limit while making it and I had to shorten some filenames. I only extended it to the length it did so I could end with the Anti Crew opening, to give the thread extra talking points.
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Nov 27, 2019 08:56
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Well, the game does at least look like it's arming you reasonably well for this overall. There's nothing it could possibly do to prepare you for that Anti-Guy clusterfuck, though. Mother of god. 
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Nov 27, 2019 13:34
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I'll give the game that making the Power Plus badge locked behind a superboss is at least better than keeping it behind a normal Shy Guy and then designing the rest of the game behind it.
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Nov 27, 2019 15:23
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Feels kinda eh to hide it until the point where one point of damage won't mean much aside from the optional super bosses.
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Nov 27, 2019 15:32
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ChaseSP posted:Feels kinda eh to hide it until the point where one point of damage won't mean much aside from the optional super bosses. This is where it's placed in the base game, at least. So it's not like they moved it here out of spite, it was always behind one of the most ridiculous enemies in the game. The definition of "most ridiculous enemy in the game" has just gone up incredibly.
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Nov 27, 2019 15:48
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Yapping Eevee posted:Read the middle bit; it says he was gonna go after the green one, but got sniped. I did read the middle bit: Quackles posted:That Shy Guy with the calculator is who we’re going after, but the Spy Guy in the center will try to attack us if we get close. Instead, we’re going to fight one of the other Shy Guys first, to get the level. How about… the green one with the Fire Flower? It is saying that that Spy will snipe if he goes after the calculator, which is why he want to go after green. Also just cause you are good with it, doesn't mean everyone is good with an update that is suddenly double the length. I was reading it at work on my break because I was confident at how long they usually are and I would finish before I had to return. I wasn't able to finish reading it till I got home cause I had to stop and end my break. At the very least a warning about the length at the start would be nice. Quackles posted:Something is actually missing, mostly because I had a hard time capturing it. I couldn't get a screenshot of Mario getting sniped on the field. Sorry about that. Yeah it was just a bit confusing to go from "I'll fight green" to "I'm fighting spy" mateo360 fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Nov 27, 2019 |
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Nov 27, 2019 16:05
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mateo360 posted:I did read the middle bit: Did you read the very next sentence? "The Spy Guy puts a dent in that idea by slingshotting rocks at us - we get hit!" You even quoted it.
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Nov 27, 2019 16:21
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Sorites posted:Did you read the very next sentence? "The Spy Guy puts a dent in that idea by slingshotting rocks at us - we get hit!" That reads as part of the battle commentary since the screenshot is of Mario being hit.
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Nov 27, 2019 16:26
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gourdcaptain posted:This is where it's placed in the base game, at least. So it's not like they moved it here out of spite, it was always behind one of the most ridiculous enemies in the game. The problem here is that damage bloat means this group is very likely impossible to kill right now, while in the original it's a totally feasible feat. Outside of a lucky couple of shrinks or somesuch they will likely kill quackles in one round right now regardless of what our host does.
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Nov 27, 2019 16:32
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Yeah you can easily kill them just abusing Bow or a Repel Gel or just brute force it with healing or a bunch of different strats. Also I imagine power plus wouldn't be nearly as strong as the base game anyway given how much more hp all the enemies has compared to your own offense.
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Nov 27, 2019 16:49
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The thing is, when you're making a challenge hack in a game like Paper Mario where even one point of damage is a huge, huge difference you kinda need to know at what power level the player is going to be at every point. So in that sense it actually makes sense to gate the damage and defense buffing badges to the endgame, and as such I'd argue that this is a legit solution and a better one than just assuming that everybody will have gotten and is using the power plus badge for the rest of the game. E: To expand on this point, if a player's power level fluctuates then it's very possible that the difficulty level get way too hard, or possibly too easy depending on your point of view. Though the far bigger problem with the difficulty here is the obtuse gently caress you setups that you have to know in order to even stand a chance in some fights. Cerebral Bore fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Nov 27, 2019 |
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Nov 27, 2019 16:51
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FoolyCharged posted:The problem here is that damage bloat means this group is very likely impossible to kill right now, while in the original it's a totally feasible feat. Outside of a lucky couple of shrinks or somesuch they will likely kill quackles in one round right now regardless of what our host does. Totally feasible, yes. Things new players would actually do, almost certainly not. I know I certainly bashed my head against it for a while to no avail when I first played Paper Mario.
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Nov 27, 2019 16:52
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I imagine you could probably do it if you expend all your limited resources -- the 2x turn drinks and repel gels and a bunch of AoE damage items with Double Dip? The question is if that's worth it.
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Nov 27, 2019 21:41
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MarquiseMindfang posted:I imagine you could probably do it if you expend all your limited resources -- the 2x turn drinks and repel gels and a bunch of AoE damage items with Double Dip? I'm like 110% sure I could not do it, even then. You'll see. mateo360 posted:Also just cause you are good with it, doesn't mean everyone is good with an update that is suddenly double the length. I was reading it at work on my break because I was confident at how long they usually are and I would finish before I had to return. I wasn't able to finish reading it till I got home cause I had to stop and end my break. At the very least a warning about the length at the start would be nice. That was kind of a one-off, don't worry. Think of it as a grand re-opening. quote:Yeah it was just a bit confusing to go from "I'll fight green" to "I'm fighting spy". Oof. This is why I go back and recapture screenshots... I might patch in a shot of Mario getting hit. EDIT: Three new images have been added of Spy Guy's sniping behavior. Thanks to everyone who complained. XD Quackles fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Nov 27, 2019 |
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Nov 27, 2019 23:24
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Cerebral Bore posted:The thing is, when you're making a challenge hack in a game like Paper Mario where even one point of damage is a huge, huge difference you kinda need to know at what power level the player is going to be at every point. So in that sense it actually makes sense to gate the damage and defense buffing badges to the endgame, and as such I'd argue that this is a legit solution and a better one than just assuming that everybody will have gotten and is using the power plus badge for the rest of the game. It might be reasonable to argue that locking the badge away is good because of balance reasons, but that's more because limiting the player's options also limits the developer's ability to gently caress you over by "requiring" more and more obtuse setups.
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Nov 28, 2019 01:06
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bio347 posted:On the other hand, the entire point of hardmode hacks is that the people playing them are quite experienced with the base game. It's 1000% reasonable to assume that anyone playing this game would both want and be able to get the Power Plus from a regularly-guarded chest. If the players have a reasonable chance of getting the badge here, then every encounter from this point forward will have to be designed on the assumption that the player has it equipped. The kind of optimization the hack requires basically makes something like a this mandatory if you can get it. That doesn't really eliminate options, it just becomes bp that gets locked up from that point on.
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Nov 28, 2019 03:37
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Oh boy. Is this what endgame looks like? I’m wondering if a set up even exists that lets you get this badge right here right now. I guess this is one of the reasons life shrooms (and other items) are limited, so you can’t buy extra turns against these guys. Man, I’m both happy and upset that I didn’t install this romhack, since I’d probably just slam my head against this fight for a week to see if it’s possible.
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Nov 29, 2019 05:06
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Random_Username posted:Oh boy. Is this what endgame looks like? I’m wondering if a set up even exists that lets you get this badge right here right now. I guess this is one of the reasons life shrooms (and other items) are limited, so you can’t buy extra turns against these guys. After my next installment, I'm going to add in a bonus post detailing the history of the Anti Crew. At least one thing in the game (the Li'l Oink machine) has become locked off until later as a result of the Crew being cheesed.
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Nov 29, 2019 05:47
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   By the way, while the next installment is in production, this may amuse you: apparently, the free-roaming Anti Guy in the first wing of the Toy Box gives a decreased yield of Star Points - 5 Star Points when Mario's at Level 14 - compared to the ~30 a boss-level Anti Guy gives.
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Nov 29, 2019 23:57
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Quackles posted:
Ah, yes. In the course of our somewhat actual difficulty, which is often hosed up anyway What we need is fake difficulty stacked on top.
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Nov 30, 2019 00:06
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Does that Anti Guy respawn? If so, I kinda get it.
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Nov 30, 2019 00:20
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Sorites posted:Does that Anti Guy respawn? If so, I kinda get it. I believe he does, yes.
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Nov 30, 2019 00:25
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Tbh I think amping up antiguy like this is overkill even for master quest
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Nov 30, 2019 01:07
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Gross. That's gross. I mean, I was a proponent for locking off Power Plus because otherwise it'd probably become mandatory to do, but gross.
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Nov 30, 2019 01:11
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Quackles posted:I believe he does, yes. Yeah a respawning 30 exp fight would be, abusable. Especially because as I understand it it’s very hard to put nuance into the Star point system, there’s a base amount and it gets reduced by Mario’s level.
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Nov 30, 2019 03:14
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Lord_Magmar posted:Yeah a respawning 30 exp fight would be, abusable. Especially because as I understand it it’s very hard to put nuance into the Star point system, there’s a base amount and it gets reduced by Mario’s level. I think it might still be our best option for grinding right now, though.
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Nov 30, 2019 03:38
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Was that Anti-Guy there in the base game?
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Nov 30, 2019 04:06
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Omnicrom posted:Was that Anti-Guy there in the base game? No. Anti Guys could only be fought twice period. Only one guarded the Power Plus chest there. And you fought 3 of them at once later on if you failed one of the quizzes in Bowser's castle. (Oddly enough they counted as different enemies internally from the Shy Guy Toy Box version, as they were slightly more resistant to the Shock status there.)
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Nov 30, 2019 04:13
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Quackles posted:I think it might still be our best option for grinding right now, though. This might be the first game I've seen that's completely against grinding.
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Nov 30, 2019 04:25
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Araxxor posted:(Oddly enough they counted as different enemies internally from the Shy Guy Toy Box version, as they were slightly more resistant to the Shock status there.) They still do! I think this has to do with how each map area has a set of enemy formation 'slots' that can be attached to it... or something. Paper Mario is a complex beast.
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Nov 30, 2019 04:26
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chitoryu12 posted:This might be the first game I've seen that's completely against grinding. Final Fantasy Tactics 1.3. Grinding will actively gently caress you over. Unless you grind in a specific way
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Nov 30, 2019 04:33
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chitoryu12 posted:This might be the first game I've seen that's completely against grinding. FFVIII punishes grinding severely. Everything becomes massive mountains of HP above level 40.
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Nov 30, 2019 04:36
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The Elder Scrolls games, I'm not sure if it's all or just some of them but enemies scale with level. The problem is that they scale to keep pace with someone pumping combat stats so if you spread your focus around you start falling behind.
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Nov 30, 2019 05:33
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Quackles posted:I think it might still be our best option for grinding right now, though. Considering the tone of the game I suspect they feel grinding to be a crutch that those who the full version is aimed at don’t need. Kind of funny though to realise this.
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Nov 30, 2019 05:58
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I mean the point of the romhack is that every fight should be very difficult but basically completable. If you want to grind an antiguy for a bunch of tedious hours until the rest of the game is trivial, why are you even playing a romhack like this? This hack has a bunch of bad decisions but the thread immediately jumps down its throat even on quite reasonable ones
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Nov 30, 2019 08:00
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That Anti-Guy battlion is so intimidating that I can't see how that could be beaten without boo sheets and like, 30 damage jumps or something.
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Nov 30, 2019 08:41
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RareAcumen posted:That Anti-Guy battlion is so intimidating that I can't see how that could be beaten without boo sheets and like, 30 damage jumps or something. Boo's Sheet wasn't introduced until the next game, and its PM64 equivalent (Repel Gel) has had its duration nerfed - and also we can't buy them anywhere yet. But yes. We won't be getting that particular badge for a while. Interestingly, the member of the Anti Crew that is likely to be the most trouble to deal with is the Anti Medi Guy in the back. You'll see why when I detail the Crew's stats in the next episode.
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Nov 30, 2019 08:51
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