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Addamere
Jan 3, 2010

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Europe is a beautiful country, but it's in a completely different time zone last I heard.

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Crowsbeak
Oct 9, 2012

by Azathoth
Lipstick Apathy

Ardennes posted:

No, not as a whole, the entire reason Germany lacked a minimum wage was because unions controlled wages...but that to happen you actually still need unions. Likewise, most European countries still have much larger state sectors, and usually free/low cost higher education and publically regulated medical care. Some European countries have to some extreme lengths to liberalize (especially in Eastern Europe) but are almost always given those recommendations by Ivy League graduates (and even then they usually still have larger public sector). The one European country that would be close to rivaling us is the UK, but that isn't saying much.

There was forced privatization but guess who was recommeding that... the IMF. It isn't that there aren't European right-wing liberals but they are usually emboldened and radicalized further by the US.

Ah. So now. If only the us didn’t exist the perky European right libs would not be loving over the third world as well as uing the sun to gently caress up Europe. Right....
All capitalists are subhumans who need to be thrown in gulags to earn their humanity back.

Kurnugia
Sep 2, 2014

by Nyc_Tattoo
i've heard rumors of a sea in between. what i really would like to hear about is how did leaonardoe di'caprie start the brazil fires

Atrocious Joe
Sep 2, 2011

Lightning Knight posted:

I love Mexico’s socialist grandpa. :3:

I'm pretty sure he's explicitly not a socialist. Which shows how bloodthirsty the US ruling class is towards Latin America, they despise not just socialists but any leader that's left wing or independent of the US at all.

Lightning Knight
Feb 24, 2012

Pray for Answer

Atrocious Joe posted:

I'm pretty sure he's explicitly not a socialist. Which shows how bloodthirsty the US ruling class is towards Latin America, they despise not just socialists but any leader that's left wing or independent of the US at all.

just let me have this, don’t kill all of my dreams pls

got any sevens
Feb 9, 2013

by Cyrano4747

unwantedplatypus posted:

amlo should arm the workers imo

then invade texas

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

lol norway still doesn't have a minimum wage. sectoral bargaining is directly hurt by reducing the incentive to unionise, such as via a legal minimum wage

THS
Sep 15, 2017

Crowsbeak posted:

Ah. So now. If only the us didn’t exist the perky European right libs would not be loving over the third world as well as uing the sun to gently caress up Europe. Right....
All capitalists are subhumans who need to be thrown in gulags to earn their humanity back.

i think you’re grinding a weird axe here. no one is saying the european capitalists arent awful or wouldnt try to fill any void left by the US, but the US is the primary nerve center of global capital, and its military enforcer as well - and has been for over 50 years. with that power and influence theyve cleared the field as much as they can and itd be easier to deal with an isolated neoliberal EU if the enforcement aspect of the US security apparatus were out of the equation

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

(and can't post for 21 days!)

The EU isn’t really any less capable of the sort of regime change the US has been engaging in since the Obama administration.

What would make things easier is a revolutionary US actively opposing imperialism.

Kurnugia
Sep 2, 2014

by Nyc_Tattoo
The EU is more incompetent, and theres also an ocaen in the way, and the euros have no way to get to latin america with that ocean in the way so youll be safe from imperialism if you just put more ocaen in between your buttcheecks

Addamere
Jan 3, 2010

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Kurnugia posted:

The EU is more incompetent, and theres also an ocaen in the way, and the euros have no way to get to latin america with that ocean in the way so youll be safe from imperialism if you just put more ocaen in between your buttcheecks

I have flushed more saltwater than most humans have been across, yet I feel the insidious gnawing of imperialism every day. :ohdear:

Kurnugia
Sep 2, 2014

by Nyc_Tattoo
hmmm.... have you tried euro brand ocean crossing for your cheecks yet? i put a huge COG up my butt and exported all my misery across a multicontinental imperialismo!

Kurnugia
Sep 2, 2014

by Nyc_Tattoo
now all my chafing is gone and ive got this huge COG to cross my ocean with

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

(and can't post for 21 days!)

Kurnugia posted:

The EU is more incompetent, and theres also an ocaen in the way, and the euros have no way to get to latin america with that ocean in the way so youll be safe from imperialism if you just put more ocaen in between your buttcheecks

The United States hasn't even invaded a Latin American country since Panama in 89. And no, Haiti does not count.

That's not going to stop lawfare or financial starvation, which is the immediate problem facing the latin american left.

Percelus
Sep 9, 2012

My command, your wish is

Kurnugia posted:

i've heard rumors of a sea in between. what i really would like to hear about is how did leaonardoe di'caprie start the brazil fires

using astral projection and pyromancy you could start fires anywhere globally from the comfort of your wizard tower

CAPS LOCK BROKEN
Feb 1, 2006

by Fluffdaddy

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

The United States hasn't even invaded a Latin American country since Panama in 89. And no, Haiti does not count.

That's not going to stop lawfare or financial starvation, which is the immediate problem facing the latin american left.

The issue here is even if the US became the USSA overnight global capital is just going to migrate to Canada/UK and then use the exact same lawfare/financial starvation/separatist tactics that the US uses on other countries.

Crowsbeak
Oct 9, 2012

by Azathoth
Lipstick Apathy

CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:

The issue here is even if the US became the USSA overnight global capital is just going to migrate to Canada/UK and then use the exact same lawfare/financial starvation/separatist tactics that the US uses on other countries.

A good USSA would “liberate” Canada.

Cerebral Bore
Apr 21, 2010


Fun Shoe
Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun, and capital ain't gonna migrate the US military or the world's biggest spook industry anywhere. A socialist (or even just an anti-imperialist) US would literally knock the supports out from under imperialism as we know it, and it would take a long-rear end time for the rest of the first world to pick up the slack.

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

(and can't post for 21 days!)

Cerebral Bore posted:

Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun, and capital ain't gonna migrate the US military or the world's biggest spook industry anywhere. A socialist (or even just an anti-imperialist) US would literally knock the supports out from under imperialism as we know it, and it would take a long-rear end time for the rest of the first world to pick up the slack.

EU member states are still some of the world's biggest suppliers of weapons. You don't have to go around invading all of these countries in the 3rd world when you can just arm the compradors to overthrow them for you. That's why it's not enough to just have a weakened United States.


CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:

The issue here is even if the US became the USSA overnight global capital is just going to migrate to Canada/UK and then use the exact same lawfare/financial starvation/separatist tactics that the US uses on other countries.

But a revolutionary United States would also act as a financial counterbalance to the capital of the global north. The US right now is just a massive sink of value, and flipping it all isn't something that the rest of the global north could easily recover from.

Addamere
Jan 3, 2010

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
And the leftist carrier battle groups will be launching leftist bombing campaigns against chud countries and chud supporters, and the leftist Navy SEALs will be doing leftist assassinations of billionaires and their collaborators, and the leftist marines will ride around in leftist ospreys that don't kill them or six year old American girls who like Minnie Mouse.

Crowsbeak
Oct 9, 2012

by Azathoth
Lipstick Apathy

Addamere posted:

And the leftist carrier battle groups will be launching leftist bombing campaigns against chud countries and chud supporters, and the leftist Navy SEALs will be doing leftist assassinations of billionaires and their collaborators, and the leftist marines will ride around in leftist ospreys that don't kill them or six year old American girls who like Minnie Mouse.

My God, it will be beautiful.

THS
Sep 15, 2017

too bad there’s no south american nation with a competent independent intelligence apparatus capable of countering outside influence IE iran in the mideast - not that i love the islamic republic’s secret police, but it’s extremely funny when they consistently goof on western and israeli interests in the mideast

Ardent Communist
Oct 17, 2010

ALLAH! MU'AMMAR! LIBYA WA BAS!

THS posted:

too bad there’s no south american nation with a competent independent intelligence apparatus capable of countering outside influence IE iran in the mideast - not that i love the islamic republic’s secret police, but it’s extremely funny when they consistently goof on western and israeli interests in the mideast

Cuba is technically not South America, I guess.

EDIT: The first foreign policy thing I would do as my revolution gathers steam would be to contact Cuba and arrange support from their intelligence services.

BEAR GRYLLZ
Jul 30, 2006

I have strong erections for Israel.
Strong, pathetic erections.

lol remember when those CIA spooks posing as diplomats got so tilted by noisy crickets that they started imagining cuba was blasting their brains with sound waves?

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

(and can't post for 21 days!)

Ardent Communist posted:

Cuba is technically not South America, I guess.

EDIT: The first foreign policy thing I would do as my revolution gathers steam would be to contact Cuba and arrange support from their intelligence services.

Anybody accused of being in league with "Cuban agents" is doing something right, even if they're not.

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004


:911:
:wookie: :thermidor: :wookie:
:dehumanize:

:pirate::hf::tinfoil:

Ardent Communist posted:

Cuba is technically not South America, I guess.

EDIT: The first foreign policy thing I would do as my revolution gathers steam would be to contact Cuba and arrange support from their intelligence services.

Venceremos Brigade!

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

i mean there's no loving way that even in fantasy communist usa land that anyone would trust us for decades, and rightly so

Frijolero
Jan 24, 2009

by Nyc_Tattoo
So about AMLO...

One of his campaign promises was a popular referendum on his presidency. That is, in about two years he will hold an election and if he loses he will step down.

I am absolutely certain the right-wing is preparing to coup him when the times comes.

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

The EU isn’t really any less capable of the sort of regime change the US has been engaging in since the Obama administration.

What would make things easier is a revolutionary US actively opposing imperialism.

I mean, the EU as such is pretty dysfunctional and really can't. Even when they were crushing Greece, where the ECB only had to press a button they got the US dominated Bretton Woods organizations on board to hide behind and help with the technical details of the crushing. The prospect that they could force the desperate Eurobanks to skip out on earning a quick buck seems remote to me, absent the strong US pressure. Individual European countries on the other hand are still going strong with the warcrimeing. France is somewhat of a standout, they still run half of Africa's monetary policy, even though they themselves switched currency.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1201137584925229057

Spice World War II
Jul 12, 2004
So, appearantly it wasn't just a regular coup in Bolivia, but also a military insurrection/mutiny/whatever it is called? Also explains why Añez got rid of Kaliman etc. right away:

https://www.paginasiete.bo/segurida..._medium=twitter

The article, which is of course like all Bolivian media right now very pro coup, and only calls it "the military deploying to the streets to protect the Bolivian people", is a very dramatized write up of the coup day, and basically states that General Kaliman, the commander of the army, was threatened by General Rojas, that the "colonels will come and arrest the high command" if he didn't deploy the military for the coup. The article then of course claims that Morales nevertheless stepped down voluntarily, and not under threat, but goes on to describe that the lion Rojas was ready to arrest Kaliman on the spot in front of the tv cameras if he didn't call for Morales to step down during the press conference, because they thought he might try to double cross them.

It ends with a bunch of quotes from Kaliman in 2018 all the way up to the elections in 2019 that are supposed to drive home that he was loyal to the horrible MAS policies until the end.

It's kind of hilarious how the article tries to make that Rojas guy be the hero of the story, and talks about the officers were about to start arresting generals, and at the same time tries to say that none of this makes it a coup

Spice World War II has issued a correction as of 23:55 on Dec 1, 2019

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy
anyone who made it to the rank of general under the morales dictatorial regime is clearly compromised, duhhh.

RIP Syndrome
Feb 24, 2016

V. Illych L. posted:

one can make a solid case that the necessity of rebuilding their countries after the most devestating war in history drove them, though. certainly this was a very big part of the norwegian labour party's turn away from socialism

Related fun fact: The guy who set the tone for what Norway would become after WWII was in power for 17 years total. Or as we say when it's one of ours, in office. Tbf though, a lot of good there even after he steered away from Communism.

Cao Ni Ma
May 25, 2010



Latin american countries the entire world need to just abolish their armies

Atrocious Joe
Sep 2, 2011

https://twitter.com/SecPompeo/status/1201309046210547712?s=20
ghouls

cool dance moves
Aug 27, 2018


Cao Ni Ma posted:

Latin american countries the entire world need to just abolish their armies

Costa Rica hasn't had a coup ever since they abolished theirs iirc :thunk:

Addamere
Jan 3, 2010

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

cool dance moves posted:

Costa Rica hasn't had a coup ever since they abolished theirs iirc :thunk:

Costa Rica is careful to run everything past the US and maintain US support for their social programs.

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

https://twitter.com/OliviaArigho/status/1200893793224052737
Big ups to Jhanisse Daza and her StandingRivers environmentalists on their victory.

Plutonis posted:

Morales is a socdem like Lula he was well meaning but still wanted to play by the rules of the wealthy and compromise without knowing they wouldn't settle for anyrhing but complete domination
yes he was on the soft side (although more left than lula). The risk with how Evo ran Bolivia is of course what we just saw: the right hung around and waited until they could violently attack even while Evo governed successfully. But he also ruled for 13 years and had just won another election; he was doing pretty well before the fall. If he was more aggressive in rooting out right wing press, fighting the for-profit industries, purging potentially disloyal generals, that's a possible path too except then maybe he suffers blowback sooner and loses an earlier election or gets couped even earlier when a general he tries to remove refuses to go and calls the army down on him. And that's not to mention Evo succeeding in purging the right and the US just saying gently caress it and recognizing a parallel government just because, or whatever else they may try. That's not to say attempting a harder left path is wrong. I only mean to say navigating a left movement through either end of hostile local compradors and looming imperialist aggression is not easy. It's a lot easier to second guess everything after the fact.

Mister Bates posted:

I'm honestly fuckin baffled as to what MAS's game is here, there has got to be some kind of strategy behind this but from the outside this deal seems to fly in the face of, like, basic human self-preservation instincts.

some of the people who voted in favor of this deal are on the literal loving kill-lists the government has been spreading around
if they continue to resist recognizing the coup government they will continue to be slaughtered. There were no defections coming, there were no friendly police or military security forces. They're agreeing to this with guns to their heads the same way Morales "resigned." Whatever they choose to do they already lost

Fast Luck has issued a correction as of 19:43 on Dec 2, 2019

Lightning Knight
Feb 24, 2012

Pray for Answer

Fast Luck posted:

https://twitter.com/OliviaArigho/status/1200893793224052737
Big ups to Jhanisse Daza and her StandingRivers environmentalists on their victory.

gently caress

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Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

https://twitter.com/kevinmcashman/status/1201571082353991681

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