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My hot take is shaking and stirring the same drink gives a very similar result. I always shook everything including my Sazerac knowing it's not technically advised. Recently I repurposed a small french press I did not want into a nice mixing glass. Stirring is very similar. There was actually a recent Punch article about the topic. https://punchdrink.com/articles/go-ahead-shake-your-martini-negroni-manhattan-cocktail-recipe/ Also rinsing a glass has got to be bullshit. Like with absinthe or Herbsaint in a Sazerac. Just mix the equivalent volume directly in. Comb Your Beard fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Nov 27, 2019 |
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Nov 27, 2019 21:26
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Comb Your Beard posted:My hot take is shaking and stirring the same drink gives a very similar result. I always shook everything including my Sazerac knowing it's not technically advised. Recently I repurposed a small french press I did not want into a nice mixing glass. Stirring is very similar. Dave Arnold scientifically examined this in Liquid Intelligence. Assuming all other factors are the same, shaking will result in greater dilution than stirring and a cloudier drink. While you can obviously drink what you prefer, many recipes that specify stirring or shaking are balanced for that method of mixing. Shaking a stirred drink can give you an uglier, more watery cocktail while stirring a shaken drink can result in uncomfortably strong flavors.
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Nov 27, 2019 21:41
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The Maestro posted:I agree, don’t go crazy with bitters, except for one: Scrappy’s cardamom bitters. A few dashes takes a Negroni to the next level. I was just about to recommend this one. I often reach for it when trying to make drinks with a wintery flavor profile.
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Nov 27, 2019 22:01
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I really like having xocolatl mole bitters on hand too
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Nov 27, 2019 22:28
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Comb Your Beard posted:My hot take is shaking and stirring the same drink gives a very similar result. I always shook everything including my Sazerac knowing it's not technically advised. Recently I repurposed a small french press I did not want into a nice mixing glass. Stirring is very similar. I, too, shake my rum and cokes.
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Nov 27, 2019 22:39
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Sandwich Anarchist posted:I really like having xocolatl mole bitters on hand too Mm, yea, good call. I love the cardamom with Negronis, and the chocolate with Boulevardiers
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Nov 27, 2019 22:54
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I've actually seen recipes where the shaken ingredients include a carbonated thing. Not on a really legit site but still.
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Nov 27, 2019 22:55
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Sandwich Anarchist posted:I really like having xocolatl mole bitters on hand too
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Nov 27, 2019 23:04
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Comb Your Beard posted:Also rinsing a glass has got to be bullshit. Like with absinthe or Herbsaint in a Sazerac. Just mix the equivalent volume directly in. It isn't, and no.
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Nov 28, 2019 02:41
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Please buy this if you're starting out: Scrappy's Bitters Exotic Sampler Pack, 4 ml https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00N1EQI5I/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_yOY3Db61YA1HV Small size, so you'll use before they go off. Don't get the "classic" sampler*, since aromatic, orange, and Orleans you should just get a full size and get your money's worth. Idk about celery. My philosophy is this: "new weird ingredient? Try at a bar first to see if it's worth the investment" *classic sampler may make sense if storage is a premium.
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Nov 28, 2019 03:04
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Celery bitters are excellent and open the door to the Fourth Regiment cocktail, which is 1.5oz rye, 1.5 sweet vermouth, and 1-1-1 ango/orange/celery. It is the best version of a Manhattan, imo. Gimlets with celery bitters are also excellent. There's a strong argument to be made for celery bitters being the first bitters you should pick up after the Holy Trinity of ango/orange/peychauds.
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Nov 28, 2019 05:39
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Comb Your Beard posted:My hot take is shaking and stirring the same drink gives a very similar result. I always shook everything including my Sazerac knowing it's not technically advised. Recently I repurposed a small french press I did not want into a nice mixing glass. Stirring is very similar. Did you read the article you linked? In every test the shaken cocktails were found to be inferior to the usual stirred spec. Like, pretty conclusively. How in the world could you have such an insane, unjustifiable, intentionally-contradictory preference and as your only justification link to a very hastily-written, gotta-pay-rent-somehow article that actually completely countermands your post and think "ha, got 'em"? I don't normally get like this on the internet but I genuinely think you're stupid and wish to come to your house to beat your rear end about this.
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Nov 28, 2019 08:15
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Thanks so much for all the suggestions re: building up my home bar. Currently I'm using a cheapish cobbler shaker set that included a bar spoon and a strainer. I've been making both stirred and mixed drinks in it, but thinking about it I will start using one of the heavier pint glasses I have for stirred drinks. I think I'll upgrade to a boston shaker sometime but I'm not really in a hurry. I picked up some orange bitters and an oversized ice cube tray today, as well as the mixel app. I'll pick up some campari and some chambord next time I'm at the bottle shop! I made a Manhattan this afternoon (2:1 Jim Beam rye: Cinzano Rosse sweet vermouth with a couple dashes of orange bitters, in a rocks glass with a lemon twist) and I think it was my favourite cocktail I've made yet. Will try the 'perfect' variation tomorrow, but any suggestions for mods or tweaks to the classic Manhattan? My partner is loving gin sours and southsides, any ideas for variations? I think chambord sounds like it would go well, and i might get some grapefruits to try soon too.
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Nov 28, 2019 09:54
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Make them a gimlet, and pick up some creme de mure (blackberry liqueur) and make a Bramble
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Nov 28, 2019 12:57
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Just pour turkey bits into a cup of whiskey. Happy holidays
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Nov 28, 2019 16:45
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field balm posted:I made a Manhattan this afternoon (2:1 Jim Beam rye: Cinzano Rosse sweet vermouth with a couple dashes of orange bitters, in a rocks glass with a lemon twist) and I think it was my favourite cocktail I've made yet. Will try the 'perfect' variation tomorrow, but any suggestions for mods or tweaks to the classic Manhattan? First thing is augment your bitters situation. Two dashes each Angostura and orange is how I make my Manhattan; try that. Also upgrade your bottles! Rittenhouse rye whiskey is the gold standard for cocktails, and it's barely more expensive than Jim Beam rye. And you could do a lot better with your vermouth, too. Most people will point to Carpano Antica Formula as the best vermouth for a Manhattan (and honestly I agree with them) but that's a $30 bottle, albeit for a liter versus the usual 750mL size. If you want less of a financial commitment you could go for Lustau Vermut Rojo for around $22 or Cocchi Vermouth di Torino at around the same price. Casa Mariol makes what I would describe as a Spanish black vermouth at $24/1L that I love as well. Basically my point is: spend a little more on your home bar and you'll be getting exponentially better drinks out of it. Also keep your vermouth cold. People will tell you that it has a shelf life of about a month once opened and if kept refrigerated but I honestly think it's more like two months. Either way, keep it cold and it'll last a lot longer. Same goes for any other fortified/aromatized wines (sherry, madeira, etc.)
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Nov 29, 2019 06:48
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Unfortunately I'm Australian so Rittenhouse is something like almost twice the price of the Jim Beam. I will definitely invest in a nicer bottle next time though, this was my first time trying rye whiskey so i skimped a bit just in case i didn't like it! I will probably buy nicer sweet vermouth next time as well, that spanish one sounds amazing. I've got it mine in the fridge but I don't really see myself getting through a liter even in 2 months. I'll whip up your version this afternoon for sure! field balm fucked around with this message at 07:23 on Nov 29, 2019 |
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Nov 29, 2019 07:20
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field balm posted:Unfortunately I'm Australian ah, goondolences
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Nov 29, 2019 17:34
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One way you can test the flavors of different liquors is mini bottles, like the kind you see on airlines or at the rack near the liquor store register. You can get what would be $700 worth of whiskey in full size bottles for only $70, enough to pour into a Glencairn or something and sample. The flavor and alcohol content of the base liquor can easily make a noticeable difference and price doesn't necessarily equal quality (see: Johnnie Walker Blue).
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Nov 29, 2019 19:24
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I was actually quite happy with the price of $0.99 dragonberry vodka 1.5 oz bottles when I was on a business trip. I also bought two other flavored liquors of various types I didn't tuck into, but they were carry-on friendly so I have them to enjoy later!
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Nov 30, 2019 04:43
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Uhh so apparently if you infuse 80 proof rum with cocoa nibs it can freeze now?  Either that or Costco chest freezers are colder than normal!
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Dec 1, 2019 15:34
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BrianBoitano posted:Uhh so apparently if you infuse 80 proof rum with cocoa nibs it can freeze now? Mine won’t freeze. But I used 151. On another note I started making a drink with 1.5 oz reposado tequila, 1.5 oz cardamaro, 1/4 oz Demerara and 3 dashes of barrel aged bitters. Good god this thing is like herbal dark chocolate. Hell of a cocktail.
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Dec 2, 2019 01:39
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BrianBoitano posted:Uhh so apparently if you infuse 80 proof rum with cocoa nibs it can freeze now? The freezing point of 80 proof liquor is around -16 Fahrenheit and freezers are often at 0 normally, so it's theoretically possible for it to at least partially freeze if your freezer is that cold anything that lowers the ABV would increase the propensity for freezing by adding more stuff that can freeze around the ethanol. chitoryu12 fucked around with this message at 02:00 on Dec 2, 2019 |
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Dec 2, 2019 01:55
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Comb Your Beard posted:My hot take is shaking and stirring the same drink gives a very similar result. I always shook everything including my Sazerac knowing it's not technically advised. Recently I repurposed a small french press I did not want into a nice mixing glass. Stirring is very similar. chitoryu12 posted:Dave Arnold scientifically examined this in Liquid Intelligence. Assuming all other factors are the same, shaking will result in greater dilution than stirring and a cloudier drink. While you can obviously drink what you prefer, many recipes that specify stirring or shaking are balanced for that method of mixing. Shaking a stirred drink can give you an uglier, more watery cocktail while stirring a shaken drink can result in uncomfortably strong flavors. I will add that rinsing is less about incorporating flavor directly into the drink and more about aromatics and mouthfeel. Also, anyone have experience with Clarified Milk Punch? Thinking about giving the linked recipe a go (or some spin thereof) and wanted to consult the hivemind on must-avoids. one more e- MistressMeeps posted:I'm really interested in recommendations! Still making whiskey sours in a protein shaker bottle...it's a bit sad. Lokee fucked around with this message at 09:28 on Dec 2, 2019 |
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Dec 2, 2019 08:45
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After several days of rigorous scientific testing, i can confirm that the best manhattan recipe is 2oz rye 1oz sweet vermouth, one dash orange bitters, one dash angostura bitters and orange twist garnish. These are so drat delicious its ridiculous! Didn't care for the version with both vermouths to be honest. Wanna try a red hook or a black manhattan asap.
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Dec 2, 2019 09:45
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ShortyMR.CAT posted:Juniper is my least favorite type of flavor. Personal opinion here. I prefer darker liquors as well, or maybe not since I like gin, any cheap old gin. I do like juniper, the local smokers do a nice juniper smoked ham too. I have never liked vodka, except this polish vodka, this stuff was actually quite tolerable, Żubrówka but without the grass. I need to try the grass version some time since apparently that's what it's famous for. edit: in retrospect this post seems mostly to say "I don't like X, actually wait I do". His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 14:24 on Dec 2, 2019 |
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Dec 2, 2019 14:16
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tequila. Idk why
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Bison grass vodka is actually quite good. It has a sort of grassy vanilla flavor that you don't expect.
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Dec 2, 2019 15:44
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Lokee posted:
Milk wash everything.
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Dec 2, 2019 15:48
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Ok I guess I'm owned on shaken vs. stirred, it worked fine for James Bond. Gotta do a side by side compare. I try to mix with 100 proof rye or bourbon so often a bit of additional dilution is ok. Sextro posted:Milk wash everything. Not sure if you're being flippant but that's not good advice for making milk clarified punch.
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Dec 2, 2019 16:50
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Comb Your Beard posted:Ok I guess I'm owned on shaken vs. stirred, it worked fine for James Bond. Gotta do a side by side compare. I try to mix with 100 proof rye or bourbon so often a bit of additional dilution is ok. It worked for Bond because the original book recipe was a Vesper using 100 proof vodka and 95 proof gin, so extra dilution made sense to avoid an unreasonably boozy cocktail.
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Dec 2, 2019 17:02
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chitoryu12 posted:an unreasonably boozy cocktail. ?????
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Dec 2, 2019 17:47
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Shaking vs stirring absolutely makes a difference. It effects what the finished product look like. You control the temperature and dilution of the finished product when you shake, and when you stir. Extra dilution from shaking makes no sense.
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Dec 2, 2019 17:52
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Klauser posted:Shaking vs stirring absolutely makes a difference. It effects what the finished product look like. Shaking and stirring for the same time will give different levels of dilution. Dave Arnold found that at about 6 seconds you've shaken it enough unless you're doing an extremely lazy shake, whereas stirring really has to be done for over twice that long to get it to the right level (usually around 20 seconds). The chilling effect specifically comes from incorporated melted ice water into the drink and shaking does it faster; this is also why if you want to pre-chill a glass you want to use ice water rather than plain ice, as the ice won't effectively cool the glass unless you leave it for an unreasonably long time. Seriously, pick up his book. It's actual scientific study of how cocktail mixing works. You can't argue with numbers.
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Dec 2, 2019 18:03
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chitoryu12 posted:You can't argue with numbers. You can't argue with thermodynamics.
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Dec 2, 2019 18:14
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The Hebug posted:You can't argue with thermodynamics. Okay I actually pulled up the book so I can directly quote him on this. quote:Every gram of ice melted provides 80 calories of chilling power. To put that power in perspective, an average 3.5-ounce (90-ml) daiquiri will melt between 55 and 65 grams of ice when you shake it for 10 seconds. That averages 2000 watts of chilling power . . . per drink. Shake four of those bad boys at once and you are blasting 8000 watts of chilling power. All ice has the same 80 calories per gram of chilling power, regardless of how big it is or how fancy it is, but how that chilling power is delivered depends on the ice’s size and shape. The difference between big ice cubes and small ones is their surface area. Smaller pieces of ice have more surface area for a given weight than larger pieces. These smaller pieces can therefore chill faster, which is good, but they also have more liquid water stuck to their surfaces, which is often bad. The surface of ice can also trap some of your cocktail so that it never makes it into your glass. Let’s look at these three issues—surface area and chilling rate, surface area and trapped water, surface area and trapped cocktail—one at a time. This goes on for far longer (it's a very long book), but he was able to accurately measure the temperature and sugar, acid, liquor, and water content of the drinks he made and their final volume. It's a simple, testable fact that shaking will chill and dilute faster than stirring for the same length of time. He also provides many experiment setups that you can do to test this for yourself. The one mistake I made is that he says to shake for at least 10 seconds, not 6. When I say to read this book if you want to truly know about mixing drinks, read this book. There are so many myths and half-baked thoughts that "seem right" that get thrown around and argued over, but he actually sat down and used science to figure poo poo out. He's done seminars at Tales of the Cocktail specifically for debunking myths about things like shaking technique. There's a lot of cool information on doing clarification, fat washing, using liquid nitrogen and hot pokers, etc. as well but at its absolute most basic you're learning exactly what you're doing when you mix and you can save yourself a lot of headaches figuring things out.
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Dec 2, 2019 18:30
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chitoryu12 posted:Shaking and stirring for the same time will give different levels of dilution I'm not arguing that, just stir longer.
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Dec 2, 2019 19:12
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Comb Your Beard posted:Ok I guess I'm owned on shaken vs. stirred, it worked fine for James Bond. Gotta do a side by side compare. I try to mix with 100 proof rye or bourbon so often a bit of additional dilution is ok. It worked fine for James Bond because Ian Flemming was trying to make a point to the reader that Bond was a brutish spywho came from a common upbringing where people don't know how to order martinis. The entire point of "shaken not stirred" is that Bond is ordering it the wrong way 
Fart Car '97 fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Dec 2, 2019 |
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Dec 2, 2019 19:21
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Fart Car '97 posted:It worked fine for James Bond because Ian Flemming was trying to make a point to the reader that Bond was a brutish spywho came from a common upbringing where people don't know how to order martinis. This never occurred to me, and I love it.
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Dec 2, 2019 20:29
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Fart Car '97 posted:It worked fine for James Bond because Ian Flemming was trying to make a point to the reader that Bond was a brutish spywho came from a common upbringing where people don't know how to order martinis. This is a common theory but Fleming really did like the idea of the cocktail. These are his instructions he wrote for ordering a Martini: quote:“It is extremely difficult to get a good Martini anywhere in England. . . . The way I get one to suit me in any pub is to walk calmly and confidently up to the bar and, speaking very distinctly, ask the man or girl behind it to put plenty of ice in the shaker (they nearly all have a shaker), pour in six gins and one dry vermouth (enunciate ‘dry’ carefully) and shake until I tell them to stop. Much of Bond’s drinking and eating habits came directly from Fleming, along with his dress and some of his past. He had a lot of quirks.
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Dec 2, 2019 23:32
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I agree holding all other variables equal, including drink volume, ice quantity, length of time, shaking will both chill more and dilute more. But if you stir long enough you can get equal chilling power and less dilution. The pros will say if it doesn't contain dairy or citrus stir it just long enough to reach a full chill. Basically my original point is I know that and I'm ok with that for home use, but perhaps I should reassess.
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Dec 2, 2019 23:49
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