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I use PPCs all day errey day, if you have enough of them the accuracy penalties really start to make a difference. Putting a -25% chance to hit on the AC20 mech or whichever other dude is the nastiest threat at the moment saves me a lot of limbs that might otherwise get blown off. Also I like the weapon effect. Conspiratiorist posted:You're free to play however you want, but it's thoroughly unhelpful for people who might actually wish to play the game better (for whatever reason) if discussion is dominated by poo poo like "well PPCs/80 damage alpha/heat neutral/bracket build mechs work with *my* playstyle". You're wrong. Teaching people to play a game is about teaching them to think. The important information about a bracket build isn't that bracket builds are superior, it's that I can use it on a tank mech with multitarget/breaching for aggro management against multiple enemies. The thing you never ever respond to in a "This is what works for me" post is the why. IMHO the srm/mlas only is about the most mindless way to play the game possible, and your insistence that other people's builds only work because bad AI builds is suspect. Your build only works because the AI is a video game AI. The smart thing to do against srm/mlas is stay back and use range superiority. But that's incredibly annoying & tedious to fight against if the AI will force you into a 2 hour chase around the map while it tries to whittle you down. So most game designers don't let their AI even think about it. So there. Klyith fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Dec 3, 2019 |
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Dec 3, 2019 03:37
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Klyith posted:I use PPCs all day errey day, if you have enough of them the accuracy penalties really start to make a difference. Putting a -25% chance to hit on the AC20 mech or whichever other dude is the nastiest threat at the moment saves me a lot of limbs that might otherwise get blown off. It's inferior to the MW4 PPC effect therefore all PPCs are bad don't @ me
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Dec 3, 2019 03:40
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Mechwarrior 4 felt so grungy and gritty, like you were getting bogged down in some real bullshit to get your payday.
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Dec 3, 2019 03:48
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Conspiratiorist posted:People don't need anyone's permission to point out the dissemination of misleading information in the thread. The ERML is a fairly fine weapon by the cost/heat ratio. A ML is 25(35)/12 = 2.08 or 2.92 damage per heat An ERML is 35(45)/20 = 1.75 or 2.25 damage per heat Overall the ML is obviously better in most circumstances, but the ERML has a bunch of benefits. Better optimal and max range, better single location damage, and higher damage per ton/crit space usage, though depending on the heat usage of a build, a ML might be better if it doesn't need the extra heatsinks. Getting snippy at someone for correctly pointing out that the ER varients are better than they were, and that they have a niche now is sort of dumb.
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Dec 3, 2019 03:50
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personally i am very happy to be able to read this thread without reading for the fiftieth time that loading up a few select mechs with the most SRMs and MLs humanly possible is the only way worth playing and any other build or mech is Wrong so god bless the heavy metal expansion for actually giving us some poo poo worth talking about
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Dec 3, 2019 03:55
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RBA Starblade posted:Mechwarrior 4 felt so grungy and gritty, like you were getting bogged down in some real bullshit to get your payday. That one cappy double agent mission was a real  moment for younger mePornographic Memory posted:personally i am very happy to be able to read this thread without reading for the fiftieth time that loading up a few select mechs with the most SRMs and MLs humanly possible is the only way worth playing and any other build or mech is Wrong so god bless the heavy metal expansion for actually giving us some poo poo worth talking about 
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Dec 3, 2019 03:57
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Klyith posted:You're wrong. Teaching people to play a game is about teaching them to think. The important information about a bracket build isn't that bracket builds are superior, it's that I can use it on a tank mech with multitarget/breaching for aggro management against multiple enemies. The thing you never ever respond to in a "This is what works for me" post is the why. Short-range high damage efficiency builds are the opposite of mindless: it's about the ability to both exert pressure to keep the opponent honest and to exploit mistakes. It rewards positioning, it rewards heat management, it rewards knowing when to go all-in, and it's punished by carelessness. Yes, naturally it's going to be highly effective against the AI, which lacks mobility and the general ability to intelligently punish the player's errors, while capitalizing on the advantages of a human. OTOH long-range, low damage lance compositions are taxing on a human's most valuable resource: time. I've seen it again and again, both in this thread and out, people that take an hour, two hours on missions because they want to make mechs with different 'roles' and one of those 'roles' is long range sniper or backline skirmisher or scout or all of these together and then their resulting lance only has half or less the damage per round of a more effective composition. And if this is the way they want to play and are happy with it that's fine, but more often than not it is certainly the way they wish to play but not one they're finding particularly rewarding. And no, you're wrong about how to deal with close range comps, because this is a paradigm born from the rules of the game and not from inherent flaws in the way the AI behaves - the maps are small, LoS blocking is ubiquitous, mechs can be highly mobile with Jump Jets, and resilient through use of Cover and the Guard action and Bulwark. If a brawler wants to close the distance, they will close the distance, and with minimal damage. It's just how it is, and you can see it in skirmish mode against humans where fights will always degenerate into a melee.
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Dec 3, 2019 04:04
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Keltar posted:Stuck between two legendary mech warriors? That takes some ingenuity and creative thinking since their mechs are going to be even crazier than your OPed machines. My 395t lance took a tiny bit of armor loss during that engagement, nothing else. I didn't even move from that forested spot you mention. Endgame feels insanely overpowered now. I have 3 x Atlas, 2 x King Crab, and the Bull Shark, all fully kitted out in murder setups.
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Dec 3, 2019 04:12
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Conspiratiorist posted:Being Conspiratiorist again. If you're not playing this game with the ultimate intent of punching robomans then you're playing the game wrong. The truest way is of course the holy DFA. Legs are for the weak and cowardly.
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Dec 3, 2019 04:17
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If it bothers you that much guys just mute best girl and be done with it.
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Dec 3, 2019 04:23
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Psycho Landlord posted:That one cappy double agent mission was a real I did that one in an Atlas I'm very stealthy  quote:Short-range high damage efficiency builds are the opposite of mindless: it's about the ability to both exert pressure to keep the opponent honest and to exploit mistakes. I Move to cover > Alpha strike / Precision Shot the ammo really isn't that hard RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Dec 3, 2019 |
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Dec 3, 2019 04:59
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I shelled out all the cash I had to buy a gauss rifle and refit my Marauder with it and it was worth every penny to watch it single handedly take apart an Orion by critting out all its weapons through the armor. Thank god opfor mechs don't get gauss rifles because getting a ++ lostech gun that cost like 3 million c-bills destroyed in the first shot of a fight would make me put my fist through the monitor.
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Dec 3, 2019 05:14
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Cyrano4747 posted:It's a loving monster in TT at the 3025 tech level. PPCs do good damage at that era and it has enough heat sinks to keep up a regular routine of firing 3 a bit then firing 2 to cool off. To add to this in TT the weapons you got are the weapons you got. There's no stripping everything out of a shadowhawk and dumping SRM's in. A lot of 3025 mechs have these dumbfuck "I can shoot something at any range lol" builds. Hell when looking at stock mechs if even "MOST" of the weapons fell into two brackets that touched eachother (Short and Med) it was generally considered a good robot. Take something like the Awesome where all of it's weapons (Save the dinky small laser nobody cares about) are in the same bracket? OP as gently caress. Now if the visual range in this game opened up to say 5-600M or longer and they unfucked the PPC's heat, and forced you back into stock configs, the awesome would be OP as hell again. Granted the shadow hawk would be completely loving useless again, and the usable assault mechs would drop down to like... two, maybe three tops. Also TTK is fast as gently caress in this game. Core drilling mechs I view as "Dangerous even in stock configs" to get them off the field isn't really a thing in tabletop.
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Dec 3, 2019 05:17
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RBA Starblade posted:Do you get the payload if you buy one with the option that gives you naked mechs on? My Atlas 1 was empty Nope you get a nice empty mech, no DHS
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Dec 3, 2019 05:37
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This game is not currently set up for long range builds to be really good but the cool thing about Battletech: The Video Game is that I could see it being very simple to change that in future DLC/sequels
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Dec 3, 2019 05:44
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Before Urban Warfare dropped I had modded my game to increase the base view range to 450 or maybe 600 and I found that it really didn't change too much how the pre-combat stage of the game played out. But combine that with medium range brackets and it really makes 270 range weapons less powerful.
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Dec 3, 2019 05:56
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Taerkar posted:If you're not playing this game with the ultimate intent of punching robomans then you're playing the game wrong. The truest way is of course the holy DFA. Legs are for the weak and cowardly.
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Dec 3, 2019 06:13
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Pattonesque posted:This game is not currently set up for long range builds to be really good This is false in the Era of the Ultra-Autocannon.
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Dec 3, 2019 06:19
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The ultimate lance is four King Crabs, each carrying a pair of UAC20s. Anyone trying to make me feel differently can go suck it.
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Dec 3, 2019 06:35
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I just finished the target acquisition in Unwelcome Guests with no injuries, no structure damage, and all enemies killed, with a Shadow Hawk, Griffin, Thunderbolt, and Zeus. They were supposed to be a suicide squad lol, they annihilated themGroetgaffel posted:The ultimate lance is four King Crabs, each carrying a pair of UAC20s. Tournament of Champions 2
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Dec 3, 2019 06:37
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You know, the Awesome might be a sack of poo poo, but it's my sack of poo poo now, after seeing it pop up in the Joint Venture flashpoint and deciding it was time to get me an assault mech in this particular career game. I probably took a bit more damage than I should have stripping the thing of weapons and finally killing the pilot, but picking the whole thing up after one deployment was very satisfying.
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Dec 3, 2019 07:37
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Alchenar posted:Rule of thumb: any weapon that delivers its damage in multiple elements demands that you take a good hard look at the math when you see a ++damage version, because that multiplier can take you into fantastic places for the tonnage you are using. Can confirm. A +10 snub PPC turned my Quickdraw into a viable heavy.
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Dec 3, 2019 08:14
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Q_res posted:This is an excellent point and the fact that longer range weapons are so deprecated, by design, is one of my biggest frustrations with this game. However, I think that ER would still be quite useful on a Mech that's somewhat limited on hardpoints. Modding can fix it fairly easily though. I added range brackets + Sandwich Anarchists tweaks (+ a little bit of weapon rebalance) and having a big zone of no penalty or even mild/strong to-hit bonus makes long range guns very nice to have. To-hit penalties at long range also hurt brawling weapons in most situations, which is only right considering how efficient they are damage per heat per ton wise.
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Dec 3, 2019 10:54
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I set-up a Thunderbolt with jumpjets, two UAC/5, MGs, and a couple 60+ melee damage arm mods. Something this wrong shouldn’t feel so right. God this was a good update.
Back Hack fucked around with this message at 11:31 on Dec 3, 2019 |
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Dec 3, 2019 10:57
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Is there an easy way to tweak faction reputation? I fought the Davions for awhile before realizing I'd want to ally with them for those UACs and frankly grinding low-skull victories for max rep isn't worth my time and I'm very willing to cheat about it. I'd almost want an autoresolve function for some things.
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Dec 3, 2019 11:12
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Ravenfood posted:Is there an easy way to tweak faction reputation? I fought the Davions for awhile before realizing I'd want to ally with them for those UACs and frankly grinding low-skull victories for max rep isn't worth my time and I'm very willing to cheat about it. I'd almost want an autoresolve function for some things. Flashpoints aren't rep-locked (or at least not as much?), which can help if the right ones are available.
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Dec 3, 2019 11:33
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Ravenfood posted:Is there an easy way to tweak faction reputation? I fought the Davions for awhile before realizing I'd want to ally with them for those UACs and frankly grinding low-skull victories for max rep isn't worth my time and I'm very willing to cheat about it. I'd almost want an autoresolve function for some things. This here has a number of ways you can tweak reputation gain and contract availability: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/suggestion-reputation-problem-1-low-reputation.1134610/ I went with just upping all the negative reputation skull limits (LoathedMaxContractDifficulty etc.) by 1, still requires some effort to fix reputation but way less of a grind to find the missions for it.
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Dec 3, 2019 11:37
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Ravenfood posted:Is there an easy way to tweak faction reputation? I fought the Davions for awhile before realizing I'd want to ally with them for those UACs and frankly grinding low-skull victories for max rep isn't worth my time and I'm very willing to cheat about it. I'd almost want an autoresolve function for some things. When battletech save editor gets updated you can just set your faction/black market standing
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Dec 3, 2019 11:52
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Back Hack posted:I set-up a Thunderbolt with jumpjets, two UAC/5, MGs, and a couple 60+ melee damage arm mods. Something this wrong shouldn’t feel so right. God this was a good update. I think theres something in builds that use the high heat low weight weapons to create tonnage for arm mods and then fighting on the basis on one or two alpha strikes and then punching for 200 damage.
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Dec 3, 2019 13:28
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Alchenar posted:I think theres something in builds that use the high heat low weight weapons to create tonnage for arm mods and then fighting on the basis on one or two alpha strikes and then punching for 200 damage. The problem with arm mods is buying up enough of them to make a real difference, most shops that sell them only have one or two on offer so accumulating enough to make a legitimate punch-bot can take months. Then you lose them all to an arm being shot off. There are 0 tonnage, +10 damage mods out there and I managed to get six on a firestarter however. This was hilarious and highly effective right up until it got an arm shot off.
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Dec 3, 2019 13:34
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Rhymenoserous posted:To add to this in TT the weapons you got are the weapons you got. There's no stripping everything out of a shadowhawk and dumping SRM's in. A lot of 3025 mechs have these dumbfuck "I can shoot something at any range lol" builds. Hell when looking at stock mechs if even "MOST" of the weapons fell into two brackets that touched eachother (Short and Med) it was generally considered a good robot. Take something like the Awesome where all of it's weapons (Save the dinky small laser nobody cares about) are in the same bracket? OP as gently caress. The Awesome has a bunch of advantages in tabletop that don't translate in this game. Specifically: Ammo explosions are certain death in tabletop. They don't just destroy the section; the damage transfers toward the center and will usually wreck the whole mech. (If you're playing with salvage rules, death from ammo explosion blows the mech to shrapnel, usually killing the pilot and almost always making it unrecoverable.) Ammo explosions are also much more likely, as any crit on a ammo bin sets it off 100% of the time, and it's possible to get criticals on a section with armor still remaining. The Awesome is one of the few stock mechs with no ammo bins to light up. Every part of the Awesome is padded out with heat sinks. Every hit that hits internal (and some that don't) is going to crit and destroy something unless that section is just empty. Some sections, like the center torso, are never empty; crits can gently caress up the engine or gyro, permanently weakening the mech. Sinks are low-value padding that soaks crits harmlessly, and the Awesome has a ton of sinks. PPCs (and long range weapons in general) are better because they are generally more accurate. Because accuracy is a bell curve in tabletop, it's very important to avoid range penalties. Conversely, brawl meta isn't as much of a thing for a variety of reasons. The Awesome is a zombie and naturally fairly deadsided. It can put its left side towards the enemy, and even if you destroy everything on that side but the CT, it still has 2/3 if it's weapons left. Even if you take out the RT, it's still a threat with the remaining PPC. The Awesome has a ton of armor, reasonably well-arranged, stock. Basically, any mech with more than about 80% max armor for the weight class is going to be pretty decent in a stock match. This is obviously the first thing you're going to fix any time you can customize mechs but most people don't play with heavy customization in TT.
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Dec 3, 2019 14:58
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Reasonably well-arranged outside of the inexplicable 19 points of rear CT armor.
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Dec 3, 2019 15:06
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From my messing around with MekHQ, I remember the black knight being particularly great in 3025 as well. Solid armour, a good selection of all energy armament and tons of heat sinks. It can take a huge beating as well and continue fighting to near utter destruction as well as being really solid logistically - no worrying about running out of ammunition mid contract. The Flashman also, basically unless you are using something like an AC-20 or a heavy missile build it is really not worth messing around with ammo using weapons because of the risk of ammo explosions. SRMs do ruin tank tracks if you flank them though and you can make a fortune out of salvage if you mobility kill a bunch of tanks then run away from them before finishing the fight elsewhere.
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Dec 3, 2019 15:18
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Any idea why I'm suddenly only doing 3 points of damage with LRMs per missile against non-braced, non-cover, non-bulwark Mechs? Its in an urban environment if that means anything; I'll check if its doing the same in normal? I tagged a different mech with a Narc and it only brought them up to 4, so something is making my LRMs less murderous than they should be. e: Enemies had a Marauder on the field. Never mind. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 15:35 on Dec 3, 2019 |
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Dec 3, 2019 15:27
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TotalLossBrain posted:My 395t lance took a tiny bit of armor loss during that engagement, nothing else. I didn't even move from that forested spot you mention. I didn't even take a shot from that spot. I have so many mechs now I got to keep a few in storage. No matter the tonnage I can field anything depending on what is needed and every one gets a drat good loadout if used.
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Dec 3, 2019 15:56
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What's the story with getting access to the black market if you're at rock bottom rep with the pirates? Still 2.5M? Is it even possible now?
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Dec 3, 2019 16:44
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Cyrano4747 posted:What's the story with getting access to the black market if you're at rock bottom rep with the pirates? Still 2.5M? Is it even possible now? I think it's 5 mil though be prepared for everything to be expensive as gently caress anyway
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Dec 3, 2019 16:49
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Is there a good break point with the pirates? I'm just a hair above bottoming out with them and have been avoiding missions, but. . . . gently caress. It's just so easy to tool on them when I want some extra change.
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Dec 3, 2019 16:53
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Caros posted:...better single location damage... I don't think this gets enough attention when discussing the various weapon effectiveness theories. Just because 2 medium lasers puts out 50 damage, and a LL++/PPC puts out 50 damage that 50 damage is going to one spot and not being distributed around over the aggregate of armor. I had a really visceral experience with this phenomenon in my current career game. I've got a vulcan, and with the special ability I loaded up that sucker with 4 machine guns. That outputs 60 damage for zero heat and with the range of a medium laser. Fuckin' sweet! But. That damage is distributed around in little chunks of 3, so even though I'm throwing around PPC weight damage, it's so spread out that it's not good for actually incapacitating mechs. I burned up over half my ammo on back shots to a vindicator and didn't remove a single hit location! The damned mech stayed operational because a hit location with 1 hp is as effective as a hit location with 100hp! So single location damage matters. Sure, 4 medium lasers hits with the same weight as an AC20, but an AC20 is waaaay more effective at disabling mechs. Having high total damage matters, but being able to put an effective amount of damage in one spot also matters. I think that's where the niche for things like the PPC and AC10, and to a lesser extent the LL, is that heavy hit to one location damage. Preemptive counterpoint: The Hunchback 4P and SRM carrier, because enough fire volume can overcome the odds especially for side shots (RIP COIL-L vindicator).
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Dec 3, 2019 16:56
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Is allying with pirates a good idea or a will it ruin my career?
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