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GoGoGadgetChris posted:It's actually good to portray non-heterosexual characters without making that their Defining Trait If there's no previous indication that the cheating person was unsatisfied or whatever, yes. I mean if Angela just casually hooked up with someone else out of the blue (get it??) I'd be asking the same thing.
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Dec 5, 2019 01:35
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I assumed the relationship with Captain Metropolis was a nod to the rumors in the comics, but tbh yeah I do think it could have been explored further since identity and the hiding of identities is a pretty huge thing in this show.
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Dec 5, 2019 01:39
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What more is there to explore? It was there literally to show that he hides his identity in multiple ways and grapples with multitudes. It also establishes that he has loose morals, adds characterization, and of course is a reference to the source material. It was also a PG-tier "rolling over in bed, post-coitus" segue, not a sex scene, so it's not like it was there for shock factor.
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Dec 5, 2019 01:44
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MelancholyMark posted:A terrorist organization full of college basketball fans? Truly scary. My God...it is a conspiracy of the whites... GoGoGadgetChris posted:What more is there to explore? It was there literally to show that he hides his identity in multiple ways and grapples with multitudes. It also establishes that he has loose morals, adds characterization, and of course is a reference to the source material. Pretty much this. -OR - Gee...I wonder why so many people are disturbed by a masculine figure also being gay... 
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Dec 5, 2019 01:56
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! https://variety.com/2019/tv/news/hbo-watchmen-ratings-1203425067/ HBO needs a draw for the streaming wars, my guess it's now only when, not if, Watchmen gets renewed for a second season. Again, don't know WTF that would even look like. I think the Fargo route would be great. Disparate stories within a cohesive universe. MaoistBanker fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Dec 5, 2019 |
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Dec 5, 2019 02:06
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:What more is there to explore? It was there literally to show that he hides his identity in multiple ways and grapples with multitudes. It also establishes that he has loose morals, adds characterization, and of course is a reference to the source material. Like you would think there would be more open homophobes among the 7th Kavalry and such that already would have hated Hooded Justice and his legacy when they thought he was a white guy. IOW its the broader implications of HJ being LGBT I think there should be more on, not necessarily HJ’s relationship with Metropolis itself. Raxivace fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Dec 5, 2019 |
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Dec 5, 2019 02:45
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MaoistBanker posted:! I'd be down for 60s Rorschach and Nite Owl.
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Dec 5, 2019 03:14
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Okay but bring in Bokeem Woodbine and Mary Elizabeth Winstead if you're going to go the Fargo route
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Dec 5, 2019 03:35
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WHY BONER NOW posted:If there's no previous indication that the cheating person was unsatisfied or whatever, yes. I mean if Angela just casually hooked up with someone else out of the blue (get it??) I'd be asking the same thing. Unsatisfied, like being a closet gay man who got married to a woman due to societal pressure? I mean...
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Dec 5, 2019 03:41
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Raxivace posted:Just to be clear, its not that specific scene I take issue with as much as for all that white supremacy gets skewered in this show, homophobia seems fairly absent despite America also having an ugly history with that. And maybe it should come up more when “The first super hero was a guy into dudes” is a key part of this setting. They only have so much screentime. Trying to handle lgbt politics would mean having to cut lots of the racism message, which would completely ruin it. Just because HJ is gay/bi doesn't mean that has to become a focus of the show.
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Dec 5, 2019 03:43
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It's also possible that HJ has never addressed his sexuality in his own mind and isn't really up to the task because his life is so dominated by other forces. He's a guy who messed up his life in multiple ways because he, for understandable reasons, couldn't cope with his feelings and his trauma... it makes sense for a guy like him to not have much extra emotional bandwidth to figure out his love life. If you choose to look at it through a lens of homosexuality being inherently dangerous or something, I could see how it would take on a different tone. But the show isn't saying that gayness had anything to do with his life being tragic. The cheating isn't even what ruined his marriage, and it's not inconceivable that his wife might have known about his feelings. Martman fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Dec 5, 2019 |
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Dec 5, 2019 03:58
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I rewatched the episode and was taking notes and realized alot of my notes highlighted how woman heavy the cast and characters is. As opposed to the comic, where Laurie was just there to date people, instead in the show there's a lot of women with their own character independent of men. Including Laurie, giving character a stronger role
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Dec 5, 2019 06:12
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MaoistBanker posted:! RELEASE THE LINDELOF CUT OF AMERICAN HERO STORY
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Dec 5, 2019 06:14
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Just watched..... episode...
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Dec 5, 2019 06:52
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Nail Rat posted:I'd be down for 60s Rorschach and Nite Owl. OH poo poo now that's an idea!
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Dec 5, 2019 07:08
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Remember that the first HJ/Metropolis scene actually takes place onscreen in an episode of the Ryan Murphy pastiche. There, it's portrayed as this taboo act of dominance and sexual aggression, a dramatic and bombastic explosion of conflict and, being somewhat familiar with the man's body of work, also probably implied jism In the second scene, their lovemaking, as noted in another post, isn't portrayed and instead we focus on aftercare and nestling amid talk of business. Sexuality is so natural to the reality of these characters that it's presented without comment yet arguably, tastefully and artfully. Their queerness when compared to their roles as adventurers is so incidental to the point that the "When did you know?" question is subverted from one to the other This could be a brushing aside of queer text in the show, intentionally or not. It would seem odd for the creators to dismiss it as a topic but still include it as an obscure reference to the material they're already recanonizing. The incidental nature of Reeves' sexuality, compared to it's popular, salacious, depiction, might also serve a greater thematic purpose by the show's end. There's a lot being said in the show (and the duology as a whole, really) about truth, representation, and authenticity (masks, Blake's "joke" philosophy, rorschach's identity/face evolution, Juspeczyk/Jupiter/Blake, Veidt's Grand lie, America facing and owning up to its racist past, Dr. Manhattan hiding in a human she'll apparently?). Consider that one scene was watched by a disengaged LG, projected from a tv against his mask, with the beans directly aping Rorschach in a really blunt and clumsy way. The other scene was lived in, experienced by Angela in a way that's made explicitly clear to be intense and authentic, through a storytelling format somewhat evocative of Jon's flashbacks but still invented wholesale by the show, itself.
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Dec 5, 2019 08:34
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MoaM posted:Just watched.....
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Dec 5, 2019 09:21
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MaoistBanker posted:OH poo poo now that's an idea! Good news!!
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Dec 5, 2019 11:15
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tin can made man posted:Remember that the first HJ/Metropolis scene actually takes place onscreen in an episode of the Ryan Murphy pastiche. There, it's portrayed as this taboo act of dominance and sexual aggression, a dramatic and bombastic explosion of conflict and, being somewhat familiar with the man's body of work, also probably implied jism I think it's also worthwhile to think about what the sexuality-related drama is in the two versions of the HJ story In the AHS scene, the main conflict is "I can't believe Captain Metropolis is cheating on me with Herbert Hoover." In the HJ flashbacks, the main conflict is "I can't believe Captain Metropolis views me as simply means to sexual and financial ends, and doesn't care about what matters to me."
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Dec 5, 2019 13:22
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Xanderkish posted:In the AHS scene, the main conflict is "I can't believe Captain Metropolis is cheating on me with Herbert Hoover." Wrong Hoover, buddy.
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Dec 5, 2019 13:55
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You know how Dr Manhattan has the power to create duplicates of himself? Maybe Cal isn’t the only one.
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Dec 5, 2019 14:03
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Goddammit, I thought I stopped making that mistake in grade school.
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Dec 5, 2019 14:07
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Xanderkish posted:Goddammit, I thought I stopped making that mistake in grade school. You learned about J. Edgar Hoover in grade school?
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Dec 5, 2019 14:10
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“J Edgar Hoover was a transvestite!” was a gag for a while in the mid 90s, thanks to some biography that didn’t fully understand that he was gay and also a horrible monster. Both Naked Gun sequels have bits about him. Learning anything more about him would disrupt the classic narrative about how MLK vanquished racism forever by being so polite and loving to the poor white people who knew not what they did.
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Dec 5, 2019 14:23
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:You learned about J. Edgar Hoover in grade school? Eh, I read a lot of wikipedia in grade school.
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Dec 5, 2019 14:32
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Man we didn’t even have Wikipedia when I was in grade school...
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Dec 5, 2019 14:36
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I haven't seen anyone talk about one of the most important character developments in this episode: Red Scare eats Cheetos out of the bag with a fork.
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Dec 5, 2019 14:55
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I don't think they need to "explain" HJ's gay affair considering that scene where Metropolis stops at his apartment unannounced and talks to HJ in front of his wife was full of massive amounts of sexual tension.
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Dec 5, 2019 15:40
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duck trucker posted:I don't think they need to "explain" HJ's gay affair considering that scene where Metropolis stops at his apartment unannounced and talks to HJ in front of his wife was full of massive amounts of sexual tension. That's how I felt, too. Even if I wasn't watching for it due to the AHS version showing their relationship it would have definitely been palpable. Which makes sense considering they're already playfully sparring about knowing each others' secret alter egos in front of June. Also I'd have a harder time believing a bunch of people who regularly meet up in secret locations dressed up in silly masks and costumes weren't also banging the poo poo out of each other, because people are gonna be people.
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Dec 5, 2019 15:48
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Would we want a second season set in the 40s/50s with more of the dumb heroes from that group, or a story that cuts back and forth between that period and the modern day? I feel like the key to the show is trying out completely new timely and relevant themes within the bananas universe of the book.
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Dec 5, 2019 16:20
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Wait a year, see how the next election goes, then take it from there.
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Dec 5, 2019 16:24
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The Sean posted:I haven't seen anyone talk about one of the most important character developments in this episode: Red Scare eats Cheetos out of the bag with a fork. Hes doing it in Episode 5 too, during the walk and talk with Panda when theyre discussing HJs possible identity.
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Dec 5, 2019 16:30
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Yes the Cheeto with a fork thing was definitely noticed and discussed. drat this show is so funny stupid sometimes. Is it a racist depiction of red scare tho? Have we seen his slav squat? gently caress he's on a mask, it's part of the costume, the point is that red scare is doing it on purpose so it must so it's a little less racist of a depiction
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Dec 5, 2019 16:35
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Will this show age as badly as something like Battlestar Galactica, which isn’t bad by any means but is extremely of the Bush era? Is that ok given that we’re living through an exceptionally terrible historical moment?
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Dec 5, 2019 16:41
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KoRMaK posted:Yes the Cheeto with a fork thing was definitely noticed and discussed. Red Scare feels like an explicit reference to superheroes whose entire gimmick was their ethnic/national origin. But instead of embodying all the orientalizing, patronizing elements, it's all the weird modern stereotypes. Slavic people? Oh yea, tracksuits and poo poo.
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Dec 5, 2019 16:43
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Nieuw Amsterdam posted:You know how Dr Manhattan has the power to create duplicates of himself? That's a good thought. Although if there were multiple human manhattans I don't think killing Cal would "spawn" blue manhattan, and if there was always a blue manhattan then why kill Cal at all? Seems like he was trapped in Cal.
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Dec 5, 2019 16:49
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Red Scare is a former professional wrestler who changed careers when the WWE was disbanded by Redford.
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Dec 5, 2019 16:50
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:Will this show age as badly as something like Battlestar Galactica, which isn’t bad by any means but is extremely of the Bush era? Is that ok given that we’re living through an exceptionally terrible historical moment? BSG aged poorly because the ending sucked. If the ending to watchmen sucks, sure.
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Dec 5, 2019 16:52
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Oh Cal, like Kal-el. Nice.
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Dec 5, 2019 16:54
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The Wire hasn't aged poorly. Am I saying this show is like The Wire? No Am I saying there should be a Watchmen/The Wire crossover series? Yes.
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Dec 5, 2019 16:55
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