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The main issues Beagle has with the free aiming are: - Inability to quickly assess what the best move is. In his words "when you play thousands of hours of (xcom or similar game), having to take 5-10 more second for each soldier to see what their best shot is on every target adds up fast." - This is compounded with the fact that aliens move around while you're not free aiming. This means that you may have to wait for the animation cycle to get to the sweet spot before shooting. So when you are evaluating your shots with each soldier x each monster, you also have to evaluate several extra individual shots. - In the end it boils down to "obscuring" the player choice, making it more difficult to evaluate the best options without spending a ton of extra time each round. - On top of that, you have to add the (kinda standard for the genre) jank/bugs with inconsistent LOS, weapons clipping through bodyparts, etc. It's probably not an issue unless you are going to maniacally mod the game to have a turbo hard difficulty the way Beagle mods XCOM, to be honest...but it's a more legitimate critique than "FPS mode lol". That said, the video was very difficult to watch due to the general abrasiveness, which he himself kinda explains at the start with "Unless this is a completely different game from the latest backer build, it's a game that I already know I won't like because of X, Y and Z reasons; I have for a long time provided feedback on this during the early access and these problems were never addressed". Which is a bit of an egotistical thing to say, even if some of his criticism is well founded imo, but when you have the pull Beagle has on the modern XCOM community, you should probably know that it's going to be bad for your game if he really dislikes it (or really good if he really likes it). That Italian Guy fucked around with this message at 12:48 on Dec 7, 2019 |
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Dec 7, 2019 12:40
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How do I get more soldiers on a map? Are there later upgrades to the manticore or can I send several transports to the same location?
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Dec 7, 2019 12:45
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Hammerstein posted:How do I get more soldiers on a map? Are there later upgrades to the manticore or can I send several transports to the same location? You can send several transports to the same location. The specific mission decides the unity limit but afaik, there are even certain missions with a unit cap high enough for you to send 3 transports to.
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Dec 7, 2019 13:08
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pedro0930 posted:I haven't try to do heavy sniper yet, but I imagine with +accuracy gear and master marksman perhaps the HEL cannon can be fairly serviceable at even long range. Heavy-Sniper also gets Quick Aim, so you can do two 3-action shots in one turn. It might even combine with the Boom skill in heavy to give you 1-action grenade launcher shots (at ridiculous willpower costs).
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Dec 7, 2019 13:11
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Jack Trades posted:You can send several transports to the same location. The specific mission decides the unity limit but afaik, there are even certain missions with a unit cap high enough for you to send 3 transports to. Thanks, time to steal some transports from the Hippie faction.
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Dec 7, 2019 13:18
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talking about beagle should be an automatic sixer, posting the vids should be a perma. in console command news I still haven't found a way to spawn the silly hats or cool dude jackets. they do exsist and if you manage to grab more than one recruit spawn of the geoscape you can research them, but there's no bodypart/itemdef to just add them to your inventory. I can get the weapons to spawn, but they can't be reverse engineered so they eventually run out of ammo. crying shame, there's an iphone duct-taped to the assault rifle which I think is supposed to be a ghetto rangefinder or motion tracker. cool detail.
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Dec 7, 2019 15:10
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Sylphosaurus posted:Sometimes it feels like Beagle has gone of the deep end since he barely seems to enjoy what he does anymore. I tried to watch him play his own heavily modded XCOM2 game but it was tuned in such a ridiculous fashion that pretty much only Beagle would like it. Shame really, since I had a lot of fun watching Beagle play vanilla XCOM so many years ago. reminds me of a guys website i found while looking for Xcom Apocalypse trainers to unfuck my starting base. He had modded the game so that every alien started with massive resistance to all but one randomly determined damage type, so that every time he encountered a new alien he had to experiment to figure out how to kill it and he had to bring like laser sniper rifles in the late game just to kill brainsuckers.. quote:e; Christ almighty I wish I had some way to deal with Fury launchers though, space marines are tough enough but once they start firing those off all my poo poo gets wrecked in a hurry. Other than popping the launchers themselves I mean, can't always get the angle/hit/damage needed.
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Dec 7, 2019 15:15
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Let's be real beagle put an ungodly amount of hours into long war he was never entirely quite on the plot to begin with, but the dude does deep dives into games and knows his tastes are niche and an extreme that doesn't really speak to the gaming public at large. He doesn't like XCOM2 but has come around to accepting why it's design is the way it is and respects it, even if he knows it's nothing at all like what he wants in a game. Meanwhile he tore into Outer Worlds and I kinda wish I'd watched him stream it before I got caught up in the hype for that game, because it was a real disappointment going into TOW blind. His issues with free aim probably wouldn't be mine should I pick PP up on steam somewhere down the line, I've played valkyria chronicles games and know what's up. But VC doesn't have the kind of idle animations that would require having to wait for them to cycle to get an optimal shot. And VC free aim feels less artificial/gimmicky in practice since you also directly control units like they were action game avatars during their turn, so it's less tacked on and more an expression of it's weird broader design in general.
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Dec 7, 2019 15:19
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Goodchild posted:That's not how it is in PP, soldiers heal just fine while assigned to their aircraft. My bad, must have misread the tutorial popup that happened explaining the transfer mechanic.
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Dec 7, 2019 15:43
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Man they nerfed the hell out of grenades. I have no idea what to do with my heavy since the cannon is so inaccurate it's borderline useless and the grenade launcher doesn't do much against anything bigger than a crabman. [e] When does the sniper get some options for vertical movement? The sniper rifle is great but my sniper can never get into a good position.
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Dec 7, 2019 17:01
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His rant about enemies all having return fire for ability and being able to chain it is legit though, I am absolutely shocked they ever thought that was a good idea, on any level. Especially in a game where yours and your enemy ability to miss is almost negligible.
Back Hack fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Dec 7, 2019 |
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Dec 7, 2019 17:03
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Return fire would be fine if there was some sort of restriction on it so it wasnt god tier up close, and also if crabman machineguns didnt do insane damage at point blank. Crab mans do in fact miss a lot at longer ranges otherwise everything would be sooo dead. A bit mystified as to why its an assault skill and not an assault rifle property though Crab man insane damage on the machinegun irritates me on several levels since it makes the pincer literally pointless. Machinegun already queen of CQB. DrManiac posted:Man they nerfed the hell out of grenades. I have no idea what to do with my heavy since the cannon is so inaccurate it's borderline useless and the grenade launcher doesn't do much against anything bigger than a crabman. #1 tip for using hellcannon: Shoot walls that enemies are standing behind. You destroy the cover and you will hit them anyway. It really seems aimed at dealing with big bugs though, they shoulda put it in the research tree and started you off with an MG. TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Dec 7, 2019 |
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Dec 7, 2019 17:05
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DrManiac posted:I have no idea what to do with my heavy since the cannon is so inaccurate it's borderline useless.... You are doing it wrong - Heavy in Banshee armor and with Marksman skill from secondary sniper tree...the cannon is monstrous.... 
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Dec 7, 2019 17:15
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The cannon isn't inaccurate, the heavy's armor is. So you can swap his armor out to make it more accurate, keep his armor and make liberal use of the jet pack to get close to enemies and knock them out of their boots, or use it mostly as a cover destroyer.
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Dec 7, 2019 17:17
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DrManiac posted:I have no idea what to do with my heavy since the cannon is so inaccurate it's borderline useless Take off their heavy helmet and heavy pants. Enjoy one-shotting everything.
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Dec 7, 2019 17:20
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The crabmen MG doesn't hit that hard per-shot - it's just that phoenix project assault armor isn't very tough (and guess who's most likely to be next to a crabman - it's the dashing assaults). MG Crabmen suck against NJ Armor, especially NJ Heavy Armor. Also gotta keep in mind Crabmen arms and the Crab MG itself are very fragile - it's pretty easy to pop them from far away (or if it's a single crabman, from up close) negating the return fire. It's a huge newbie trap and big punishment for not paying attention and checking the crab loadouts the moment you spot one though - probably too much of one.
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Dec 7, 2019 17:29
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Is there a way to tell if an enemy unit has return fire before shooting at them?
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Dec 7, 2019 17:45
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Why did the designers make heavy armor reduce accuracy? I can see how being encumbered can slow you down or reduce your fire rate, but don't see how it would make someone less accurate. Seems like an imposed trade-off of less protection = better accuracy?
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Dec 7, 2019 18:02
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There’s a tiny little 180 degree white arrow on the enemy portrait at the bottom center of the screen when you’re aiming at an enemy That will shoot you back, not sure if it will display for all enemies that will return fire on a certain shot. I’m confused if overwatch triggers on step out from full cover or if there was a hidden perk for the enemy to overwatch on shooting?
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Dec 7, 2019 18:17
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nnnotime posted:Why did the designers make heavy armor reduce accuracy? I can see how being encumbered can slow you down or reduce your fire rate, but don't see how it would make someone less accurate. Seems like an imposed trade-off of less protection = better accuracy? It's probably just a game design decision. However from a practical standpoint it seems weird to have it on the legs but chest (or more specifically arm) armor being bulky for extra defense makes sense that it would be harder to finely aim at a target just for lack of motion and a helmet that has reduced vision for extra armor or a thick transparent plastic shield around the face making it harder to aim down a sight seems reasonable.
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Dec 7, 2019 19:15
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nnnotime posted:Why did the designers make heavy armor reduce accuracy? I can see how being encumbered can slow you down or reduce your fire rate, but don't see how it would make someone less accurate. Seems like an imposed trade-off of less protection = better accuracy? See recently: The Outer World's flaws system. "Would you like to take a crippling to absolutely devastating flaw in exchange for +1 perk point? Wait! Come back! Don't you want to disable sprinting in exchange for a perk?" For a softer example where the devs did eventually budge on it and fix it. Rogue Galaxy outlaw (A very nice space game) started out with various ships having little to zero upgrades for how big a shield/generator you could put in. So you ended up with stuff like a fighter craft with +2 guns compared to the garbage truck, but still stuck with the same max shield/generator (which meant it couldn't handle more/bigger guns unless you went for Yet More Autocannons). "But it's faster! Trade offs! Just don't get shot in the first place! Trade offs!" etc etc. Now their mid range ship options are more meaningful and they have added more ships on top. Section Z fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Dec 7, 2019 |
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Dec 7, 2019 19:37
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Since people are praising the enemy design in this, anyone got some good screenshots of designs other than the crabmen? I love deep sea horror stuff so I'd like to see what this game has to offer but info is pretty scarce.
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Dec 7, 2019 19:59
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Pharmaskittle posted:Is there a way to tell if an enemy unit has return fire before shooting at them? There's theoretically an indicator (a tiny white return fire symbol overlaid over the enemy indicator on the bottom row) but I'm pretty sure it doesn't always show up when return fire is in play. However, which enemies have return fire is very consistent so far (Arthrons have return if they have an MG arm, enemy soldiers have return fire, if they're assaults, etc.) The Overwatch thing I wish I knew - I've had someone die because of an overwatch triggering on the step-out before a shot (take shot -> character plays step around corner animation -> overwatch -> dead -> no shot occurs) and I don't know if it's because Overwatch interrupts shots or because the step-out counts as movement and overwatch only cares about movement.
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Dec 7, 2019 20:00
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Hope they allow mods for this game (how easy is it to make a Unity game support that?) because I feel like there is a kernel of something great buried in all this. Also I wish recruiting was easier. Infinite reaction shots? Who cares, drown in a sea of rookie blood
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Dec 7, 2019 20:50
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I don't get how people are playing on the hardest difficulties. Even on the normal difficulty the ramp up for raids is insane. Maybe if you got super lucky with the right drops you could research yourself on normal missions it wouldn't matter.
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Dec 7, 2019 21:00
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would you kill a man for his hat and his coat? I would and I have. the anu introduction mission is perfect for cleaning up your roster. give_soldier neu_heavy/assault/sniper all three have excellent jackets, but the assault is hatless. I repeat, hatless. the pants are hot garbage.
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Dec 7, 2019 21:00
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I'm researching guns but I need BIGGER guns to penetrate all this armor. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH69ZrCmgm8 Mr.Pibbleton fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Dec 7, 2019 |
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Dec 7, 2019 21:28
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Pick one human faction and kick the poo poo out of them for big resource/relations gains with the other factions, which gives you their tech. Once you get high enough it also gives you access to researching their tech trees. I tried playing mostly fighting pandorans and scavenging, but mulching through one of the factions makes your progress much, much faster. Especially since you can also steal their aircraft so you can deploy more and bigger teams. High speed/willpower assaults are also busted when you get a frenzy on them. You can just clear entire human enemy maps in a single round by having them sprint from cluster to cluster of soldiers one-shotting them.
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Dec 7, 2019 21:33
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game good?
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Dec 7, 2019 21:37
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Not sure if true, but I heard enemy progress is gated by doing special mission. So it might be a good idea to have your soldiers leveled a bit?
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Dec 7, 2019 21:38
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Commoners posted:Pick one human faction and kick the poo poo out of them for big resource/relations gains with the other factions, which gives you their tech. Once you get high enough it also gives you access to researching their tech trees. Just be careful with what faction you pick on depending on how you want to play. Synderion aircraft suck (capacity 5) and specialize in range. New Jericho (capacity 7 craft) focus on damage and armor. Also the New Jericho special class (Technician) is great if you like vehicles. Can't speak much for Anu, haven't gotten one of their craft and their special gear/class is mutation and melee. Anu are a super bitch to fight too, high health, decent armor, and health regen. Edit: Also someone asked earlier about stealth. The Infiltrator class (Synderion) works like stealth in general under XCOM, only you can do some actions (including shooting enemies) without alerting them, at least with the crossbow. Haven't fully explored what you can do with them but you definitely need the class to really engage with stealth as a mechanic. nessin fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Dec 7, 2019 |
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Dec 7, 2019 21:41
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I have literally never seen armor drop. Rarely a gun will drop. 90% of the time it's just ammo for weapons I've never seen, usually for a different faction then the one I'm fighting/helping. On research stealing missions: An assault with max speed and dash can complete the mission in one turn. You don't need to kill the enemy and as it's the first turn they haven't set up overwatch. The only goal is to activate the objective points and after the third point the mission just ends (which is dumb). Rinse and repeat until you stop getting research from that faction. Anyway, they could fix this by nerfing dash so you can only use it once a turn. And then change the missions so that at the very least you need to extract all your troops before the mission will end. As it stands now a bunch of assault troops with maxed speed and willpower can dunk on most missions in the first turn. Sure they only get two shots each, but when every shot is a point blank shotgun blast to the face and you can dash between targets it really doesn't matter. Add in the last teir skill that gets your dudes 2 extra actions for every kill and you could basically kill everything but the biggest aliens on the first turn then have everyone setup for an easy cleanup on turn two.
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Dec 7, 2019 21:46
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Lexorin posted:I have literally never seen armor drop. Rarely a gun will drop. 90% of the time it's just ammo for weapons I've never seen, usually for a different faction then the one I'm fighting/helping. An Assault/Infiltrator with dash could do it in two I'd suspect, without alerting. And you can probably do it with two assaults in one turn with a single dash, at least with the New Jericho maps.
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Dec 7, 2019 22:36
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Yeah but you can just grab two synedrion craft and fly them together for a squad of ten. Pretty sure armor and damage don't even remotely matter on the aircraft too? Synedrion ones are also the fastest and have the longest range, so you can get your squads to haven defenses a lot faster. Someone was saying that if you get your stealth to 100% via armor and that one random perk you can just run around blasting enemies without getting spotted and it's kind of busted. I can imagine that being the case like most of the other things in the game being broken on certain character combinations.
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Dec 7, 2019 22:37
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Lexorin posted:As it stands now a bunch of assault troops with maxed speed and willpower can dunk on most missions in the first turn. Sure they only get two shots each, but when every shot is a point blank shotgun blast to the face and you can dash between targets it really doesn't matter. Add in the last teir skill that gets your dudes 2 extra actions for every kill and you could basically kill everything but the biggest aliens on the first turn then have everyone setup for an easy cleanup on turn two. An assault with max willpower, speed, and the armor that gives them +speed combined with a single anu priest with the frenzy head can wipe a map almost immediately. Make a few other combinations like giving one berserker w/ armor shred and other stuff like that for small utility means you can can even roll a squad into lairs, rocket across the map, and shotgun the lair in one to two turns. Berserker also makes them immune to panic and mind control, so Sirens (which are the only real road bump right now in lair assaults) can't MC or panic them. Assault/zerkers with shotguns are pretty busted.
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Dec 7, 2019 22:41
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dyzzy posted:Hope they allow mods for this game (how easy is it to make a Unity game support that?) because I feel like there is a kernel of something great buried in all this. Considering how very uncommon and extremely expensive recruits are, that’s not an option.
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Dec 8, 2019 00:10
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At some point I got a message on the screen about insufficient energy at one of my bases. That base is now inaccessible, and its map icon is grey now. I'm not sure why this happened. Did I get attacked without knowing?
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Dec 8, 2019 00:12
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Also there's almost no reason to use raw recruits (besides the very start) in this unless you're taking massive losses for some reason. Smash them into a base with four or five training centers and they'll be max level in no time. I can't confirm recruiting costs, but someone said they were playing legendary and the recruits were much cheaper because you don't have to buy the armor and weapons that come with them, compared normal where you get both armor and weapons. Can anyone confirm this?
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Dec 8, 2019 00:16
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I kinda had hope for vehicles being useful or interesting in the long term but I can safely say they're poo poo. The initial Scrapper (or whatever the name is) that you can build is semi-useful, especially for filling slots early on and blowing up packs before they upgrade. Honestly it actually can be useful even later on just for wall destruction and packs on easier missions or raids (as either a target or blowing up factories). Basically if you can accomplish the mission without killing enemies, it's not a terrible option to bring along. The New Jericho vehicle is basically the same, only with a gun. More overall damage potential (both dealing and soaking) but without quite as much destruction potential. Synderion has a melee paralysis attack, very useful if you're trying to capture aliens, and a heal effect. Basically useless outside of capturing. Mutogs, the Anu "vehicle", are basically just damage soaks who might occasionally give you a status effect hit if you get them into melee. Absolutely terrible damage numbers although they would probably make a decent base defender if you can spare the points to manufacture them.
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Dec 8, 2019 00:18
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Commoners posted:Also there's almost no reason to use raw recruits (besides the very start) in this unless you're taking massive losses for some reason. Smash them into a base with four or five training centers and they'll be max level in no time. On legendary you don't get any extra equipment, so you only pay for the food cost. Which is better because you don't need the extra stuff if you just keep switching the equipment before every mission so you only need 8 sets of armor and weapons for your guys.
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Dec 8, 2019 00:35
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