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Origami Dali posted:Episode was the same quality as the rest of the series, for better or worse, and does no disservice to the comic or the lovely movie. These complainers are tripping rear end. It's pretty funny that everyone saying that surely the cops versus racists thing was gonna be more than it is ended up being wrong because it really was just set dressing for a kooky comic plot about villains using their tachyon cannon to steal Manhattan's god powers with science. Like taking away the clunky connections to the comic and whatever arguments we could have about mischaracterization/etc its unfortunate that a show which had some really strong racial themes going is kind of pushing that aside to make the climax "what if you dated a god with amnesia and then used bad time travel to kill your boss by mistake" So I guess its accurate that this episode was the same quality as the others in that it retroactively made them dumber? The looking glass episode was a definite high point though!
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Dec 9, 2019 08:51
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Lord Krangdar posted:Another example is how Rorschach pretends to see the world in black and white, and says he will never compromise on lies, crimes, and perversion. But when confronted with the fact that Comedian tried to rape Sally Jupiter, he just kinda shrugs and makes an excuse for him. Or the comedian being a nihilist until he realizes there are acts that even he won't stoop to
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Dec 9, 2019 08:52
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ElNarez posted:considering the subject matter, this is the episode that's gonna make or break the show, because you can't say "oh yeah so Jon Osterman decided to live as Cal Abar" without raising some serious questions I was reading backwards in the thread to see if my hot take was in fact ice cold and got to this post from before it aired and  that the show really did just kinda go "oh yeah so Jon Osterman decided to live as Cal Abar"
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Dec 9, 2019 09:05
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Okay episode but I viscerally reject the idea of anyone becoming the Jon-sanctioned "new Dr. Manhattan".
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Dec 9, 2019 09:08
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Overall I really liked the episode, and thought the romance was really sweet. Surprised to see so many goons hating on it. I agree the "did I do that?" was a bit overdone, and I thought the music choice for the big 7K fight was terrible. It was so sad and somber, it left ZERO doubt that Manhattan was about to die. You already knew he was gonna die because he said it was going to be tragic, but if they'd just used more action-scene music, it would have let you get more into Angela's mentality of "we can win this!" and make it more of a gut punch when Cal/John gets vaporized. Then you cue the somber music. I'm glad Manhattan did warp around and blow up a few 7K members, would have been lame if he just let her do everything. I kinda love how we were all obsessing over how Ozymandias got "trapped" or "imprisoned" on Europa, and it ends up that John built it not for him at all, got bored of it, and Veidt got talked into it, and then massively regretted it. Honestly.... I love that way better than any scheme of him being "imprisoned" for his crimes or whatever. He's a victim of his own hubris. Much more appropriate. E: I assume the whole talking about Manhattan putting his powers in an egg thing was a clear chekov's gun and somebody (Angela?) is going to get Manhattan'd
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Dec 9, 2019 09:11
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Remember the first episode, where it seemed it was going to be about a bunch of new interesting characters exploring masks and identity and authority and culpability in 2019, with a few little references here and there to the original comic? Nah, it was just all about Veidt and Dr. Manhattan and wacky elephants all along.
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Dec 9, 2019 09:41
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i am the bird posted:50 minutes of a completely unearned romance that doesn't land whatsoever. I'd say this was the worst episode of the show but it's been an absolute mess from the start. Every review praises the show by spending 5% of the article talking about what happened on screen and 95% to all of the easter eggs and references and Peteypedia poo poo. They're so wrapped up in mystery box poo poo that they forgot to tell a coherent story. Lindelof writes shows for reviewers.
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Dec 9, 2019 09:56
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i am the bird posted:An affectless god who can no longer relate to humans This is not dr manhattans character, he finds it difficult to relate to humans but he isn't an affectless robot. He has opinions on things. He fucks.
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Dec 9, 2019 09:56
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just another posted:Okay episode but I viscerally reject the idea of anyone becoming the Jon-sanctioned "new Dr. Manhattan". Must there be a Calhattan? quote:E: I assume the whole talking about Manhattan putting his powers in an egg thing was a clear chekov's gun and somebody (Angela?) is going to get Manhattan'd Swear to god, if the end scene is someone dropping a carton with a Manhattan egg in it and we don't know if it breaks or not...
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Dec 9, 2019 10:28
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With the way he perceives time, wouldn't he simultaneously be in a relationship with Laurie?
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Dec 9, 2019 10:37
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A couple of pages back someone said this was on par with Twin Peaks and implied that Twin Peaks was also imperfect and I just wanted to say that these are the two worst opinions in the entire thread. Possibly the worst opinions in the history of mankind.
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Dec 9, 2019 10:38
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I'm really surprised at how strong some of the negative reactions are in this thread, I thought the episode was pretty good!
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Dec 9, 2019 10:42
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amped AF for next ep when Calhattan and Veidt do the fusion dance
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Dec 9, 2019 10:46
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Cool, this show is Bioshock Infinite now. Luckily I enjoyed Bioshock Infinite, but lol.
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Dec 9, 2019 11:25
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My favourite part was when the guy that destroyed the entire NVA in a day gets taken out by a by a bunch of hicks with shotguns
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Dec 9, 2019 11:43
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Wolfsheim posted:I was reading backwards in the thread to see if my hot take was in fact ice cold and got to this post from before it aired and incidentally everything about the episode worked for me EXCEPT for that, they have that one scene with Veidt where they acknowledge how hosed up the whole thing is, but they don't really do anything with it beyond "OKAY SO WE KNOW IT'S hosed UP BUT IT WORKS FOR US, IT'S THE STORY WE'RE TELLING, DON'T WORRY TOO MUCH ABOUT IT, OKAY CAN WE MOVE ON", and to be fair at least they have the decency to have that discussion happen in the main show rather than the extracurricular material this time look maybe it's the whole point of the show, maybe there's something to the irony of white supremacists trying to usurp godlike power from a black man, while that black man is actually a white man posing as a black corpse; If I'm to deal with the show on its own terms, this is the story, and this is where I look at the interviews Lindelof did to promote the show, and this is where I don't see how they pull a satisfying conclusion to all of that, maybe because there was none in the first place, or maybe because the show handled one of its most important questions in a super clumsy way
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Dec 9, 2019 11:44
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And a tachyon device which is basically his kryptonite. Also Cal is Jon without the H (Hydrogen atom).
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Dec 9, 2019 11:44
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massive spider posted:And a tachyon device which is basically his kryptonite. As soon as Angela's literal first bullet wasn't at the canon I was pretty over the show
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Dec 9, 2019 11:49
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A Typical Goon posted:As soon as Angela's literal first bullet wasn't at the canon I was pretty over the show wHy ArEn'T tHe ChArActErS aS bIg BrAiNeD aS mE? 
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Dec 9, 2019 11:53
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they actually do the mgs time paradox, show rules
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Dec 9, 2019 11:56
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stev posted:wHy ArEn'T tHe ChArActErS aS bIg BrAiNeD aS mE? when otherwise competent characters suddenly become conveniently dumb simply to advance the plot it's bad writing
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Dec 9, 2019 11:59
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A Typical Goon posted:when otherwise competent characters suddenly become conveniently dumb simply to advance the plot it's bad writing It's not like she was a sniper deciding which target to take out though, she was running a gauntlet.
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Dec 9, 2019 12:01
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Also the "You still look like Cal" thing was dumb. It's just them calling attention to the fact that there's no reason for him to be played by the same actor. Coupled with Adrian's (hilarious if a bit too meta) line about problematic appropriation means they're trying to have their cake and eat it, too. There's absolutely no in-universe reason for Jon to stick with Cal's appearance and it just calls more attention to itself as a cheap TV production issue or something they didn't want to have to deal justifying in the writer's room. Like, there would be no issue had her changed his appearance before he went into the dead dude's body, but he didn't. Unless I'm missing and he didn't literally use the body's meat and just took on his appearance. But even if so it just seems super cheap and they clearly recognize it by labeling it.
feedmyleg fucked around with this message at 12:08 on Dec 9, 2019 |
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Dec 9, 2019 12:03
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Time for online takes, folks. https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1203877601040883712?s=12
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Dec 9, 2019 12:27
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Mandrel posted:if you take issue with deterministic universe hijinks watchmen may not be your bag baby I enjoyed the episode despite the determinism. I don't believe fate or destiny makes for good entertainment, though it worked fantastically in the original comic due to how it was part and parcel how the comic was built. In a show, it's too much of a leap of faith, especially when it's planned fate or destiny. You can see exactly where and when someone can knowingly make a choice to change things and they refuse to do it. It's dumb. Unplanned fate can be found in the amazing Netflix show "Dark" and I highly recommend you watch it if you like time travel bullshit that doesn't do destiny dirty like Doc Man does. In any case, though I had fun with the episode (and especially Veidt) I did have 2 qualms. 1: Why is Veidt planning his escape only 1 year into what seems to be a rather enjoyable time. 2: I thought not showing Doc Man's face was the wrong choice to make. The least selfish reason I can give is the fact that this show is supposed to stand on its own. However, if that were true, not showing non-Cal-ified Doc's face doesn't make sense. It's only cute to those of us who know what he's supposed to look like. Those of us who have read the books or seen the movie. It's cute because they don't want to ruin our perceptions that we have, that Crudup was and will be the best actor for the job or that making the comic version would mean fully CGing someone to life. It's not cute to someone who doesn't know this stuff, it's just confusing. The more selfish reason I have to dislike this maneuver is the fact that there are at least half a dozen other more interesting, more entertaining things they could have done. Hell, let me pull some out of my rear end here... 1: Lindeloff or a producer or even Trent Reznor, someone connected to the show as a cute self-insert 2: Some actor from the movie (let's face it, they needed Crudup) 3: Any other famous actor ever 4: Someone important's relative, like Moore's daughter's husband or something. Did Gibbons have kids? Get one of them! 5: A literal nobody 6: gently caress it, CG the comic version to life. I would have enjoyed any of these instead of hearing "You kept Cal's face" towards the end of the episode. Looking forward to "the tragedy" being Treiu's clock, Doc Man giving his powers to Angela and leaving Doc Man cuz she has no interest anymore, and confirmation that Veidt is encased in that gold statue. Also paradoxical loops that aren't solved suck. Edit: I could write another couple paragraphs about Judd but instead the result of my conversation with a friend about it is the possible twist that Judd's wife was the supremacist mastermind and Judd was none the wiser about poo poo. He kept the cloak as a reminder of what he was fighting against.
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Dec 9, 2019 12:57
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feedmyleg posted:Also the "You still look like Cal" thing was dumb. It's just them calling attention to the fact that there's no reason for him to be played by the same actor. Coupled with Adrian's (hilarious if a bit too meta) line about problematic appropriation means they're trying to have their cake and eat it, too. There's absolutely no in-universe reason for Jon to stick with Cal's appearance and it just calls more attention to itself as a cheap TV production issue or something they didn't want to have to deal justifying in the writer's room. Like, there would be no issue had her changed his appearance before he went into the dead dude's body, but he didn't. Unless I'm missing and he didn't literally use the body's meat and just took on his appearance. But even if so it just seems super cheap and they clearly recognize it by labeling it. There is no in-universe logical reason for him to revert either, there are however pretty clear emotional reasons for why this demi god who is clearly putting efforts and sacrifice into 'remaining human' would in his presumably final moments stick to the form which he occupied for the past decade, the form he occupied when having a very strong relationship with a woman he loves who's standing right next to him. He's also pretty discombobulated during that whole segment, so I guess I just don't get why this stuck out with people.
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Dec 9, 2019 13:10
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Klungar posted:I just rewatched in case I misheard, but both he and the captions say Million. Billion would mean the answer you gave, obviously, but Million is something else. He just loves New York City. Thirty years in Antarctica but he’s still never truly left it behind.
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Dec 9, 2019 13:12
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A Typical Goon posted:when otherwise competent characters suddenly become conveniently dumb simply to advance the plot it's bad writing Shout out to Game of Thrones seasons 6-8 A Typical Goon posted:when otherwise competent characters suddenly become conveniently dumb simply to advance the plot it's bad writing All she took with her were some handguns and a black windbreaker. She's an incredible fighter, but it's not like she's a crack shot. I thought the guy who played Cal did OK as Dr. M. Yeah, he's no Cruddup, but I thought the tone he delivered his lines in were fine. It's like the tone of a accomplished, but bored professor giving a 100 level course to hungover students. Didn't care for the makeup. I know, TV budgets, but he looked like an extra for the Blue Man group to me.
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Dec 9, 2019 13:26
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Angela creating a paradox where Will knows about Judd because of her is the exact same paradox the main characters on Lost cause when they tell Richard about Locke and summarize the show to him.
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Dec 9, 2019 13:38
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I liked the episode just fine, but Manhattan's determinism was always stupid to me. Things happen because Dr M can see them happening, but Dr M can see them happening only because etc. The whole chicken-egg thing is a fun walkaround about that which is also stupid (it was the egg, because that's how evolution works).
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Dec 9, 2019 13:39
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:Angela creating a paradox where Will knows about Judd because of her is the exact same paradox the main characters on Lost cause when they tell Richard about Locke and summarize the show to him.
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Dec 9, 2019 13:41
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:I can’t hate their take on Manhattan because it’s something all right but Billy Crudup did such a drat good job playing him I can’t fully get on board. "I feel fear for the last time" is a great line but seems like such a fundamental misunderstanding of the character now that I've re-read the novel again. e: I like this show's true depiction of DM being an entity completely enslaved by fate/determinism but making him a black guy seems a bit  considering he starts out as a white jew.
breadshaped fucked around with this message at 13:55 on Dec 9, 2019 |
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Dec 9, 2019 13:44
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Why do people who hate this show watch it and post about it every week?
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Dec 9, 2019 13:54
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blue squares posted:Why do people who hate this show watch it and post about it every week? Is this your first TVIV thread?
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Dec 9, 2019 13:58
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Niwrad posted:With the way he perceives time, wouldn't he simultaneously be in a relationship with Laurie? Yes. Seemed like a throwaway line but it isn’t: he is being disintegrated right now. He is always being disintegrated. It hurts. Boy is Senator Keene gonna be surprised. I liked this episode a lot. Sorry so many people missed the painfully obvious Christian allegory about a guy named Jon Easter Man who is also God but also a (Black) man who will die soon and takes his leave but not before making reference to how special food lets you be of his nature. For fucks sake he literally creates a Garden of Eden. Hey guys- who in the Bible rebels against God and gets booted out of Heaven and falls?
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Dec 9, 2019 13:58
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A Typical Goon posted:My favourite part was when the guy that destroyed the entire NVA in a day gets taken out by a by a bunch of hicks with shotguns He nonchalantly swept them aside as well after sauntering out. Plus I don't think the Vietcong had a fancy tachyon laser cannon to scoop him up with or years of planning for the express purpose of doing so. A Typical Goon posted:As soon as Angela's literal first bullet wasn't at the canon I was pretty over the show You mean when she was still sneaking around the house and that 7k dude rounded the corner and levelled his gun at her? Or when she was being sprayed by automatic fire from the two-dozen others?
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Dec 9, 2019 14:19
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So this episode confirmed the theory that Veidt's story is taking place before the rest of the story. The Dr put him in paradise right before he put in the memory chip. That was 10 years before the current story. The cakes that Veidt gets to celebrate his anniversary have not counted up to 10 yet. I think the one in this episode was only 6 or 7 candles. That gives him a few years to dig his way out, find a way to get back to earth, and crash land in the lady's field.
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Dec 9, 2019 14:22
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Eau de MacGowan posted:Remember the first episode, where it seemed it was going to be about a bunch of new interesting characters exploring masks and identity and authority and culpability in 2019, with a few little references here and there to the original comic? This is the best take. Save for "Dong of the Year" of course. That was like three pages ago and it's still not the thread title. 
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Dec 9, 2019 14:27
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blue squares posted:Why do people who hate this show watch it and post about it every week? [Insert Dr. Manhattan line about how it is always already going to have happened]
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Dec 9, 2019 14:28
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everydayfalls posted:So maybe I am off my rocker... My guess is the imperialist, white supremacist power structure running the US/the world. Although I'll be disappointed if this show Solves Racism.
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Dec 9, 2019 14:42
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