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Hope the finale opens with Trieu recording her own secret tape explaining her plan and it's consequences for a future President Lubeman.
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Dec 9, 2019 16:54
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Tender Bender posted:He explains exactly why he comes back to earth, in the episode. He created life from scratch and it was boring. Well he failed the first time I guess that's it! He doesn't have time or energy to try again. Time for a beer. In Vietnam. How about the whole leaving the galaxy part?
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Dec 9, 2019 16:55
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AccountSupervisor posted:The first masked vigilante was a gay black man whose origin story was the Tulsa Massacre and disguised himself as a white man because he knew the racist world wouldnt accept him otherwise. He discovers the police is a secret KKK surrogate attempting to brainwash African Americans into killing each other. His grandaughter relives this and now carries his racial trauma with her for the rest of her life. Despite all these experiences, Hooded Justice fell in love with a white supremacist and his granddaughter became a colonial cop who conflates the Viet Cong with the KKK then falls in love with a nuclear weapon that murdered countless Vietnamese to expand the American empire and inspired a man to kill her parents -- a nuclear weapon who was once a Jewish holocaust survivor but is now hiding from white supremacists in Tulsa in a black body that he didn't choose. Those are all interesting things on the surface but that's all we're given. We don't really dig into the meat of any of that poo poo. It's just a series of pitch meeting what-ifs.
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Dec 9, 2019 16:55
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Nail Rat posted:How about the whole leaving the galaxy part? How do you know he didn't?
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Dec 9, 2019 16:58
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Xanderkish posted:That whole episode was giving me serious Arrival vibes and I bet a lot of that was at least semi-intentional. It was cool, but I don't like how neatly it all came together because I didn't think this was fundamentally a time travel story. Angela having a conversation with Will across time was neat, but it seeming to be like the fourth instance of "this happened because we knew it would happen and we knew it would happen because it happened" was unsatisfying for me. Nail Rat posted:Well he failed the first time I guess that's it! He doesn't have time or energy to try again. Time for a beer. In Vietnam. I mean I dunno dude you're wandering into "it's a plot hole because I wouldn't have made that choice" territory. He makes life from scratch, finds it boring, goes back to earth to make life in a messier, less boring context. The context of an existing world and people who weren't created by him or for him. Someone who's skeptical of him when they meet, and who says they hate him. I don't know about the leaving the galaxy part.
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Dec 9, 2019 17:00
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Tender Bender posted:He explains exactly why he comes back to earth, in the episode. He created life from scratch and it was boring. "if at first you don't succeed, eh whatever.." - A god.
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Dec 9, 2019 17:05
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i am the bird posted:Despite all these experiences, Hooded Justice fell in love with a white supremacist and his granddaughter became a colonial cop who conflates the Viet Cong with the KKK then falls in love with a nuclear weapon that murdered countless Vietnamese to expand the American empire and inspired a man to kill her parents -- a nuclear weapon who was once a Jewish holocaust survivor but is now hiding from white supremacists in Tulsa in a black body that he didn't choose. Those are all interesting things on the surface but that's all we're given. We don't really dig into the meat of any of that poo poo. It's just a series of pitch meeting what-ifs. The entire show is about America's sick relationship with its white supremacist core, how it lures people in and how feel-good liberalism is a bandaid on a decapitation in terms of fixing the problem. My biggest beef with this episode is that I don't think the Dr Manhattan story vibes well with everything else in Watchmen 2019, but again there's an episode left with a ton of concluding to do. Started listening to the official podcast and Damon immediately says what he loves about the graphic novel is there were twenty points where he thought "this is going to fall apart, there's no way they stick the landing", but they did, and he wants to create that kind of story here. I've felt that as well after almost every episode except for 5 and 6, so we'll see. It's very possible they don't stick the landing after all.
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Dec 9, 2019 17:06
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ozmunkeh posted:"if at first you don't succeed, eh whatever.." 1) He's not a God. He's very pointedly a man with incredible powers. He says this in the text. 2) He's constantly changing his mind. In the book he gives up on humanity and then a week later comes back because he remembers Laurie's mom was raped by her father. 3) He's trying again, differently. That's what he's doing. Making life. Making a life for himself, in a way that he doesn't have all power and all knowledge. He explicitly says "we're making love" when they meet. I'm not even a fan, at all, of this particular thread but cmon people.
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Dec 9, 2019 17:09
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Dr Manhattan came to see Angela because then this season of tv wouldn’t exist you guys duh 
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Dec 9, 2019 17:09
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HBO has a long standing tradition of having shows start really good then absolutely gently caress up the ending so this won’t surprise me when they gently caress it up eight at the finish line.
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Dec 9, 2019 17:09
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i am the bird posted:Despite all these experiences, Hooded Justice fell in love with a white supremacist and his granddaughter became a colonial cop who conflates the Viet Cong with the KKK then falls in love with a nuclear weapon that murdered countless Vietnamese to expand the American empire and inspired a man to kill her parents -- a nuclear weapon who was once a Jewish holocaust survivor but is now hiding from white supremacists in Tulsa in a black body that he didn't choose. Those are all interesting things on the surface but that's all we're given. We don't really dig into the meat of any of that poo poo. It's just a series of pitch meeting what-ifs. I honest to god cannot possibly comprehend how you can read both my post and yours and then say "thats all we have gotten" as if all of that isnt an interesting tapestry of events to weave together. To me that is meaty as gently caress and gives me a ton to contemplate and ruminate on. I dont consider those "what ifs?", thats some fascinatingly complex plotting and character development to chew on. If you need the show to spend more time talking about those things with intent to derive definitive meaning from it, cool, but Ive spent almost every day between epsiodes diving into this stuff beyond the surface with friends and colleagues. I dont need the show to do it for me. Theres a gently caress load of meaning already present for me and I personally enjoy a story that presents themes as this does, allowing for self discovery upon reflections of the text, especially as the context continually evolves as the mystery unravels.
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Dec 9, 2019 17:11
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feedmyleg posted:Inexplicably? Come on, that's being unfair. He came back because love. maybe I need to put that into words you'll understand though... 'beep boop beep beep boop... trains!'
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Dec 9, 2019 17:11
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Anyway the main reason I'm dissatisfied with Manhattan isn't because of plot holes it's because I don't really see how he ties into the themes of America's repeated exploitation and erasure of non-white labor and suffering, and generational trauma. I'm interested in someone explaining it to me though because with the whole omnipotence and omniscience thing I'm sure it does connect and I'm missing something obvious.
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Dec 9, 2019 17:12
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Tender Bender posted:Anyway the main reason I'm dissatisfied with Manhattan isn't because of plot holes it's because I don't really see how he ties into the themes of America's repeated exploitation and erasure of non-white labor and suffering, and generational trauma. I'm interested in someone explaining it to me though because with the whole omnipotence and omniscience thing I'm sure it does connect and I'm missing something obvious. “I thought I was helping, I regret it now”
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Dec 9, 2019 17:20
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Tender Bender posted:Anyway the main reason I'm dissatisfied with Manhattan isn't because of plot holes it's because I don't really see how he ties into the themes of America's repeated exploitation and erasure of non-white labor and suffering, and generational trauma. I'm interested in someone explaining it to me though because with the whole omnipotence and omniscience thing I'm sure it does connect and I'm missing something obvious. You don't see how the vehicle of American imperialism in Vietnam ties into the themes of non-white suffering and generational trauma?
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Dec 9, 2019 17:22
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stev posted:Cool, this show is Bioshock Infinite now. Doctor Manhattan: "If we could perceive time as it truly was what reason would grammar professors have to get out of bed?"
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Dec 9, 2019 17:35
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Nieuw Amsterdam posted:“I thought I was helping, I regret it now” Bushido Brown posted:You don't see how the vehicle of American imperialism in Vietnam ties into the themes of non-white suffering and generational trauma? There we go, thanks 
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Dec 9, 2019 17:41
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A Typical Goon posted:My favourite part was when the guy that destroyed the entire NVA in a day gets taken out by a by a bunch of hicks with shotguns He basically committed suicide, to be real. Just Chamber posted:For whoever it was (or multiple people) saying it's silly that he didnt kill all the Klansman/ stop the tachyon beam it should have been easy for him, after all he he wiped out the VC etc. It's likely because he know he has to be hit by the beam, he needs to not kill all the Klansman and get captured because all of that leads to something we can't see yet and his capture leads to something that (hopefully) pays off. Maybe it'll lead to that Utopia Veidt wanted in the first place, who knows? But likely there's some sort of happy end that comes as a result of his death. Plus honestly I think he kinda hates his existence and wouldnt mind a future where he's not in it. Yeah this Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Dec 9, 2019 |
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Dec 9, 2019 17:59
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Xanderkish posted:Why does an ageless, omnipresent being, for whom time is a flat circle or whatever, like women in the 16-35 yo women demographic. < Dazed and Confused clip >
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Dec 9, 2019 18:03
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Nail Rat posted:Well he failed the first time I guess that's it! He doesn't have time or energy to try again. Time for a beer. In Vietnam. Lmao, this is such a terrible read. Were you watching the show? Its not that he was tired, its that he realized any life he created would be un-satisfying to have worship him. He needed to earn it, which meant dealing with... people. The very thing he'd left behind.
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Dec 9, 2019 18:05
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Dr. Manhattan allowed himself to get hit by the tachyon cannon cause it was time to move to greener pastures, since Angela is around 40. Clearly.
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Dec 9, 2019 18:07
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emanresu tnuocca posted:I'm disappointed that this super hero show wound up being a super hero show with a time travel twist instead of solving race relations in america. It took longer than I expected for the "you're stupid for thinking the race stuff in the show was anything other than set dressing, the real twist was that it was the KKK with mind control and God-capture cannons and time travel goofs the whole time!" But like...I kinda liked the show about the black cop who has unintentionally followed in the footsteps of her grandfather in both wearing a mask and fighting racial injustice. I thought it was a neat arc because racial issues are kinda sidestepped in the original comic so seeing them as front and center was a novle way of handling it. I was curious about what he was planning and how HJ's past ties into it and why he waited decades to reveal himself....and the answer is "oh he was just sitting around when dr. manhattan just showed up and told him all this by accident just before putting the amnesia stick in his own brain." Oh. Cool, I guess. This also kinda cheapens Angela's whole deal because she's basically ignoring the fact that her husband is a literal timebomb that's gonna go off really soon to just be a super cop. And you can explain it away by saying she was ignoring it to focus on the task at hand or hoping she could uncover the plot to stop it but it doesn't really mesh that well with the plot and how she's reacting to it prior to this twist? And it seems like it didn't really matter because it makes her being a super cop less important to the plot than her being Manhattan's wife who says the wrong thing at the wrong time? It just kinda leaves a bad taste in my mouth and feels like it squandered its potential. Is this what people felt like with Lost? I never watched it.
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Dec 9, 2019 18:12
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Personally I love a good time paradox and I'll be disappointed if all they do with it is just make everything Angela's fault. I want to see poo poo unravel.
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Dec 9, 2019 18:14
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Nieuw Amsterdam posted:I want to hear more about your learned take about how Watchmen’s living god’s decision to live as a Black man with amnesia for a decade at the site of one of the most notorious racial massacres in U.S. history has no social commentary issues. Did you not understand that the post I made said the show does have social commentary issues. Is your reading comprehension that poor.
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Dec 9, 2019 18:16
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Wolfsheim posted:It took longer than I expected for the "you're stupid for thinking the race stuff in the show was anything other than set dressing, the real twist was that it was the KKK with mind control and God-capture cannons and time travel goofs the whole time!" Lmao the show spends one episode on something different and suddenly you're ready to write it off completely? One episode about Angela and Manhattan doesn't unmake all the past episodes my dude, that's a weird take. Its still that show. Its very likely that racial issues will come up again in the future, the 7K are still the antagonists. Plus, Manhattan is loving dead. So... if you're so upset about the show spending some time on him.... GOOD NEWS! He's proven to her that he can see the future. I'm not sure what good it would be worrying about the "time bomb" ? If he can't see the future perfectly, then maybe there isn't going to be a tragedy. If he's right... then there is, and there's nothing you can do about it. But also, Angela doesn't know what the tragic end to their relationship is exactly, so acting like Manhattan himself is a time bomb seems, wrong? What would you have Angela do? She's the one who wanted him to be human in the first place. You're saying she should have taken away the amnesia sooner and used him to conquer Earth and overthrow the 7K or something? That's not Angela. That's not Manhattan. Lost spent loving years saying "there's a secret, see if you can figure it out!" and then ended with "we've got nothing". To compare Lost to a single episode of Watchmen not being about racial issues is loving hilarious. What are you smoking?
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Dec 9, 2019 18:18
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Mullitt posted:I'm kinda upset we didn't end up getting more Looking Glass Lol, they showed a 7C squad coming for him 3 episodes ago (and in the "previously on ..." this episode) without getting back to that in any way. It's a 50/50 wether he's dead or will swoop in at the 11th hour to save the day somehow I guess? Do we even care at this point? And this whole deterministic "we can't change the outcome" pisses me off everytime that card is pulled, especially when you have an all-knowing entity involved. Manhattan tells Angela about the tachyon cannon and neither of them finds the time to dump a mag into or wave a hand at this presumably delicately calibrated contraption to render it useless in the blink of an eye. Neither of them even tries. So dumb. mcbexx fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Dec 9, 2019 |
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Dec 9, 2019 18:23
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Lost was a better tv show than this. Warts and all
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Dec 9, 2019 18:24
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In one of the infamous unfilmed Watchmen screenplays it starts with them fighting terrorists on the Statue of Liberty and ends up with Adrian's master plan being a time wormhole to shoot Dr. Manhattan as a baby so he never becomes a god and then at the end Laurie, Dan and Rorshach end up in the real world and I can't help but feel it's a little more respectable than Watchmen the show because it lets you know upfront you're in for a dumb comic book ride instead of masquerading as something interesting for awhile
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Dec 9, 2019 18:25
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mcbexx posted:Lol, they showed a 7C squad coming for him 3 episodes ago (and in the "previously on ..." this episode) without getting back to that in any way. Well, no, all the 7K guys were found dead by Petey and LG wasn't among them so I wouldn't say its a 50/50 whether he's dead or not.
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Dec 9, 2019 18:27
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I missed a very subtle exchange last episode but caught it in this episode's opening recap. You'll only get it if you watch with closed captioning on. When Angela is brandishing the hammer at Cal, she begins to call him Jon, spelled properly in the subtitles. When Cal responds, the subtitles read "My name isn't John." He uses the more common spelling because he doesn't realize who she's talking about.
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Dec 9, 2019 18:29
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Weedle posted:With Laurie and whoever he finds to replace Angela after she gets old in like 2045 or whatever, and whoever he finds to replace that woman, and so on and so on. Dr. Manhattan is chasing that young tail throughout time and space. Eau de MacGowan posted:Remember the first episode, where it seemed it was going to be about a bunch of new interesting characters exploring masks and identity and authority and culpability in 2019, with a few little references here and there to the original comic?
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Dec 9, 2019 18:34
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There's no way a Lady Trieu episode can be good Please don't give her and Bian any screen time next episode
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Dec 9, 2019 18:34
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mcbexx posted:Lol, they showed a 7C squad coming for him 3 episodes ago (and in the "previously on ..." this episode) without getting back to that in any way. He's definitely alive, we just know since there's only one episode left he won't do very much or have much in the way of interesting story anymore. It sucks because he's the most interesting idea the show had for an original character, since he was shaped by the events of the book in an intriguing way and exists as kind of a photonegative of Rorschach with the potential to actually do some good. Would have been nice to see that much thought put into Sister Night instead of "parents killed" as a backstory.
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Dec 9, 2019 18:34
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Its hosed up that I didn't make the Bioshock Infinite connection sooner and it's even more hosed up the same guy said he liked Bioshock Infinite  Zaphod42 posted:Lmao the show spends one episode on something different and suddenly you're ready to write it off completely? One episode about Angela and Manhattan doesn't unmake all the past episodes my dude, that's a weird take. Its still that show. Its very likely that racial issues will come up again in the future, the 7K are still the antagonists. I mean...there's one more episode and the showrunners said that this plot is wrapped up. And we know that episode is gonna be about tachyon cages and God-stealing powers and super clocks and presumably a golden Adrian coming back to life or whatever. I guess they could be lying about this episode wrapping up Angela's life or season two could be them trying again to do racial issues in a different setting without it instead really being about time traveling gods but I don't really think they have time to do much with it in an hour next week.
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Dec 9, 2019 18:35
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mcbexx posted:Lol, they showed a 7C squad coming for him 3 episodes ago (and in the "previously on ..." this episode) without getting back to that in any way. This is the kind of post that reminds me why TV writers think their audiences are made up mostly of idiots who need things spoon-fed to them.
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Dec 9, 2019 18:37
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I liked that episode, but it did feel like an episode that was forced to happen due to narrative purposes. It's pretty safe to assume that Jon knows what's going to happen, and whatever it is, it's for the best. Thing is, HJ didn't know about Judd and Cyclops in Tulsa before Manhatten told him through Angela, but when confronted with it, Judd admits it without hesitation.
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Dec 9, 2019 18:40
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There's nothing left for LG to do. His story has been told and it'll be utterly pointless to bring him back
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Dec 9, 2019 18:41
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:There's nothing left for LG to do. His story has been told and it'll be utterly pointless to bring him back Maybe he will kill Veidt.
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Dec 9, 2019 18:42
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:There's nothing left for LG to do. His story has been told and it'll be utterly pointless to bring him back You could say the same about Manhattan or really the entire Watchmen series and welp  Also they literally did a "he killed all these guys and escaped" scene of course they're gonna bring him back? Like....you think he just won't show up again after a scene explicitly showing him alive? Were you one of those 'they made it so obvious that the clone manor guy was Adrian that there is no way it really is Adrian' guys?
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Dec 9, 2019 18:44
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Nail Rat posted:Tbh Angela is already older than when Jon left Janie. Like, probably by close to a decade. Black don't crack. 
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