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EbolaIvory posted:Being 100% honest. I never even noticed I couldn't change it until people here started talking about it. Because, its a base app that I want to run as good as possible, and my system drive is the fastest drive. So like, It makes no sense to me to move it anyways. gently caress this attitude of "we know your computer better than you do" no you loving don't. That's inherently offensive. "Lets force people to install to a fixed drive because VR gamers are morons who don't understand hard drives" what the gently caress are you talking about? Also "I personally am cool with this so NOBODY should ever want anything else" is a ridiculously douchey attitude. One size fits none is bad, period.
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Dec 9, 2019 19:59
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Plenty of people leave C for Windows and system software and put applications on other drives, so they can wipe C easily and not lose anything. It's not a big deal, it's not people being too poor to buy SSDs or whatever poo poo you're saying, stop being so abrasive
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Dec 9, 2019 20:00
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EDIT, Double Post. gently caress
EbolaIvory fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Dec 9, 2019 |
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Dec 9, 2019 20:01
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Zaphod42 posted:gently caress this attitude of "we know your computer better than you do" no you loving don't. That's inherently offensive. "Lets force people to install to a fixed drive because VR gamers are morons who don't understand hard drives" what the gently caress are you talking about? Do you even understand consumer electronics? Look, this was a pretty chill convo, and you folks want to get all lovely? Cool. Listen, You guys seem to never understand the consumer side of anything. You all think you know everything because you're goons but have literally zero experience with sales metrics, analytics, retention rates, or any of that poo poo. And it shows. Every time I try and talk about something, regardless of the language used, goons like to dog pile on the nerd opinions and forget that normal people exist and thats why sometimes this poo poo gets setup that way. Let me make this clear. OCULUS DONT GIVE A gently caress ABOUT NERDS. They are making CONSUMER VR. And guess what? Stuff like this happens because guess what? Average consumers look for a VR READY badge, they don't know poo poo most of the time about the hardware. Take quest owners, who then try and migrate to say, PCVR with the link? Yeah exactly. Zaphod42 posted:Do you work for Facebook?? I wish. Gimme that facebook money. Nemesis Of Moles posted:I'm sorry that you made a bad installer but presumably its pretty easy to fix! Be more defensive. I'm actually just trying to point out the reasons ive been given, are trivial (Storage/MY FREEDOM), and have an actual conversation other than "its dumb" as to why its such a big deal. The fact people ignore that I can even agree its annoying is hilarious, and exactly why this whole topic has been a laugh so far. I'm not even disagreeing that its silly you can't change it, I'm just trying to give another perspective and look at it from the other side and talk about it. But, ya know. Facebook, Goons, etc. homeless snail posted:Plenty of people leave C for Windows and system software and put applications on other drives, so they can wipe C easily and not lose anything. It's not a big deal, it's not people being too poor to buy SSDs or whatever poo poo you're saying, stop being so abrasive I'm not being abrasive (Well, wasnt), I'm trying to have a conversation. Calm down.
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Dec 9, 2019 20:05
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I'm glad you're having fun w/ this ebolavory
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Dec 9, 2019 20:06
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Installer design that poor indicates software engineering so poor that I would not be surprised if the Oculus software uses its own install folder as cache, r/w bombing or SSDs to death.
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Dec 9, 2019 20:07
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I'm not abrasive, as you'll see after reading the following 1000 word essay about abrasiveness,
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Dec 9, 2019 20:09
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EbolaIvory posted:I'm actually just trying to point out the reasons ive been given, are trivial (Storage/MY FREEDOM), and have an actual conversation other than "its dumb" as to why its such a big deal. Okay  well we're "just trying to point out" that having an installer that lets you pick where to install is trivial, and is the whole point of having a GUI installer wizard, and trying to have an actual conversation other than "I think its funny people are so triggered over oculus software installing on C" as to why its such a big deal.The fact that you take this so personally when you don't have any reason to be so defensive is extremely toxic and unhealthy dude. EbolaIvory posted:Listen, You guys seem to never understand the consumer side of anything. You all think you know everything because you're goons but have literally zero experience with sales metrics, analytics, retention rates, or any of that poo poo. And it shows.  Dude you really need to take some time off from posting. Jesus loving Christ.
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Dec 9, 2019 20:09
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just lol at defending the decision behind not giving you the option to choose the drive when every other installer in the planet manages to do it without any problem.
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Dec 9, 2019 20:13
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EbolaIvory posted:Do you even understand consumer electronics? drat you're so triggered right now, #cancelculture amirite
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Dec 9, 2019 20:14
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The drat installer probably just uses the Windows Installer APIs like every other loving application, but Oculus just couldn't be bothered to put up an optional text field with a button that calls the file selector, and do some basic sanitizing that's probably also part of Windows Installer. --edit: Also I like the Oculus not caring about nerds part. Because the audience for the PC headset biases towards nerds, and nerd friends will probably have to debug issues for non-nerd Oculus users. Seriously, I loving hate the general trend of hiding options and real-time telemetry.
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Dec 9, 2019 20:17
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Zaphod42 posted:Okay I didn't disagree its annoying, or even that it couldn't be done. I'm TRYING to point out there might have been actual reasons they did that in the first place, and some of those are probably consumer related. But lets disregard all of that.  lunar detritus posted:just lol at defending the decision behind not giving you the option to choose the drive when every other installer in the planet manages to do it without any problem. Just trying to look at the other side of the coin here. Not just zero in on my personal preferences. Hellsau posted:drat you're so triggered right now, #cancelculture amirite Far from it. You folks sure do assume and project a lot.
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Dec 9, 2019 20:19
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EbolaIvory posted:I didn't disagree its annoying, or even that it couldn't be done. I'm TRYING to point out there might have been actual reasons they did that in the first place, and some of those are probably consumer related. I'm a consumer. But lets disregard all of that (not being abrasive! Not being abrasive!)EbolaIvory posted:You folks sure do assume and project a lot. Holy poo poo. Dude, gently caress off.
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Dec 9, 2019 20:20
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lol he mad, only a mad person would say he's not mad
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Dec 9, 2019 20:22
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Zaphod42 posted:I'm a consumer. Are you really though? No sarcasm, But are you really a normal consumer who needs there hand held through things? Or are you an enthusiast that does not typically need help from install how tos and stuff? Kinda my point when I talk consumers here. Lowest common denominator. And thats the person we're talking about when it comes to choices like forcing a C drive install.
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Dec 9, 2019 20:27
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Dude's a vr youtuber or some poo poo, what do y'all expect.
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Dec 9, 2019 20:27
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If we agree with you that the installer is dumb and bad and should let you pick the install path, will you shut the gently caress up about it?
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Dec 9, 2019 20:30
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Infinite Karma posted:If we agree with you that the installer is dumb and bad and should let you pick the install path, will you shut the gently caress up about it? EbolaIvory is arguing the installer isn't stupid, and he is the one who just keeps going on and on with this stupid argument. He's also the one who said "I'm not mad!" and then made a whole lot of angryposts. Not sure who else you'd be referring to here. He's the issue. Like 10 goons have said that you should be able to pick and just EbolaIvory keeps bitching. So if anything this should be "if we admit the installer isn't dumb will you shut the gently caress up"
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Dec 9, 2019 20:31
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lunar detritus posted:just lol at defending the decision behind not giving you the option to choose the drive when every other installer in the planet manages to do it without any problem. All those installers? Used by nerds. Word, Excel, TurboTax? More like turbo enthusiast nerd crap. I, who am very definitely not mad, u mad, am just dropping some knowledge bombs about consumer electronics, sales metrics, analytics, retention rates, stuff you goons wouldn't understand. Let me introduce you to something called click funnel theory, e: poo poo I forgot to put 6 newlines at the bottom of my post for no goddamn reason Breakfast All Day fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Dec 9, 2019 |
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Dec 9, 2019 20:35
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Zaphod42 posted:EbolaIvory is arguing the installer isn't stupid, and he is the one who just keeps going on and on with this stupid argument. I’m not arguing it isn’t stupid. If you actually read I’m just trying to discuss why it might be that way instead of just blindly saying there’s no reason. Again goons being goons. Origami Dali posted:Dude's a vr youtuber or some poo poo, what do y'all expect. Way more than that, but ok? Because I work in content creation my points not valid or I can’t have an informed opinion? Lol
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Dec 9, 2019 20:35
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very brave of facebook choosing the c: drive very very brave
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Dec 9, 2019 20:36
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Sometimes, if I am posting angrily on the internet, it helps to remember how dumb it is to get mad at the internet. And then go do something else for a bit. People will probably have forgotten this entire conversation in a half hour anyways. Just saying.
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Dec 9, 2019 20:37
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Zaphod42 posted:So I went to re-install the Oculus software so I could check out some exclusives... Funny you should say this as I happen to have once been friends with the engineer that implemented the install mechanism. IIRC (it’s been a few years), Steam’s way of doing it is actually pretty insecure and requires a bunch of permissions. They spent a lot of time making the path configurable, but I imagine it’s not easy or possible to test all games’ installers with all configurations. Steam basically throws their hands up and says “eh the security is good enough”. Imagine people letting Facebook say “security is good enough, who’ll target them?”. Also this engineer tried very hard to pay attention to criticism so the abusive internet language directed towards “Facebook” ended up being targeted to them because they read most of it, and caused them to break down, burn out, and quit instead of them continuing to work on it. So that’s why, you loving prick.
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Dec 9, 2019 20:40
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Its just completely baffling. What.... why???
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Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:Funny you should say this as I happen to have once been friends with the engineer that implemented the install mechanism. IIRC (it’s been a few years), Steam’s way of doing it is actually pretty insecure and requires a bunch of permissions. They spent a lot of time making the path configurable, but I imagine it’s not easy or possible to test all games’ installers with all configurations. Steam basically throws their hands up and says “eh the security is good enough”. Imagine people letting Facebook say “security is good enough, who’ll target them?”. Nobody gives a hot gently caress about your engineering friend taking criticism about facebook personally
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Dec 9, 2019 20:42
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Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:Also this engineer tried very hard to pay attention to criticism so the abusive internet language directed towards “Facebook” ended up being targeted to them because they read most of it, and caused them to break down, burn out, and quit instead of them continuing to work on it. Yeah I have 0% sympathy for this FAANG failson who for six figgies couldn't write a basic windows installer in the 20xxs.
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Dec 9, 2019 20:44
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In something slightly less dumb to be angry about, my right hand touch controller doesn't vibrate and I can't get a replacement because they refuse to ship to my country. They even block freight forwarders so I'm 100% screwed. 
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Dec 9, 2019 20:44
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Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:Funny you should say this as I happen to have once been friends with the engineer that implemented the install mechanism. IIRC (it’s been a few years), Steam’s way of doing it is actually pretty insecure and requires a bunch of permissions. They spent a lot of time making the path configurable, but I imagine it’s not easy or possible to test all games’ installers with all configurations. Steam basically throws their hands up and says “eh the security is good enough”. Imagine people letting Facebook say “security is good enough, who’ll target them?”. you're gonna have to troll better than this
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Dec 9, 2019 20:46
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Not actually trolling. Yes, assholes on the internet really did hurt a real person. She happened to be doing the thing they wanted done right by exhaustively paying attention to the security issues that come up from targeting multiple drives. Congrats! We did it reddit! If it sounds like I’m mad it’s because this person was my friend.
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Dec 9, 2019 20:57
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I had a pretty stuffed 256gb SSD as my c:/ drive and looked at the install size for Vader Immortal Episode 1, 2.66 GB required. I had a vive so I just needed to grab ReVive and go from there. Easy peasy. I was having people over to try out some VR games and poo poo and the lightsaber dojo to me seemed like a no-brainer. Then I had to install the Oculus first time VR training experience thing? There's no option to not install it. It was like 10 gigs. Plus the actual Oculus software. Plus Vader. Turns out I didn't have the space and it wasn't the most annoying thing in the world but I kinda expected more from one of the richest companies in the world now I have a 512 NVMe drive and I'm laughing, but my c:/ drive WAS usually stuffed because I use it a lot for temporary editing files and as my staging drive for downloads and similar things before moving them off to another drive also I understand I am to blame because I wasn't cleaning my room per se but drat let me just dump this 13 gigs worth of poo poo to my SSD storage drive or my HDD and I deal with computers and "normal consumers" all the time, and most people with SSD's have a 128gb one for Windows and a 1tb for storage. And most of the prebuilt gaming computers being sold in best buy and poo poo are the same, 128gb sata SSD and 1 or 2 TB storage
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Dec 9, 2019 20:59
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And with regards to the Steam security issues - https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/steam-zero-day-vulnerability-affects-over-100-million-users/ It's definitely a real thing. I don't know the details of how it did things in ways that other installers/whatever didn't that caused it to have problems, and I find it hard to understand how the command line thing existing makes it not something you could do in the GUI, but saying "security" isn't just a hand-wavey justification
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Dec 9, 2019 21:01
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EbolaIvory posted:I’m not arguing it isn’t stupid. If you actually read I’m just trying to discuss why it might be that way instead of just blindly saying there’s no reason. gently caress off.
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Dec 9, 2019 21:02
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Is there any way that the hand tracking on the Quest isn't total poo poo? It seems like a cool add-on but I imagine it'll be using something similar to what Kinect used to track hands which probably won't be great. Which isn't the worst thing in the world considering that it's just a value added thing but I am curious to see how it works.
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Dec 9, 2019 21:04
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explosivo posted:Is there any way that the hand tracking on the Quest isn't total poo poo? It seems like a cool add-on but I imagine it'll be using something similar to what Kinect used to track hands which probably won't be great. Which isn't the worst thing in the world considering that it's just a value added thing but I am curious to see how it works. Almost like it's a mode just for watching porn without getting your controllers sticky
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Dec 9, 2019 21:06
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homeless snail posted:They've never said it's going to replace touch controllers, even in the blog post the videos show them navigating web pages and using video player controls, and for that it'll probably be just fine. And those are situations you probably wouldn't want to pull out your controllers anyway
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Dec 9, 2019 21:09
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Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:Not actually trolling. If you work on something and then let criticism of it on twitter get to you, that's a you problem, and you need to talk to a therapist. (not that there's anything wrong with that, everybody needs therapy) But if people weren't attacking them by name, that's unreasonable to be upset about. Also, Facebook has loving billions of dollars and can afford to fix that software. Even if "That engineer" got upset and quit, there should be a whole team of engineers working on solving these things. I'm sorry but your post is just absolutely ridiculous. There's some security issues, but there are solutions. The fact that everybody else manages but Facebook is fine? The idea that because they're "facebook" they can't get away with having any possible security issues compared to anybody else is hilarious because they have all kinds of security issues! They've been loving up security left and right. You're making it like facebook is held to an impossible standard they strive to maintain, and I'm sorry but what?! No, that absolutely does not have any bearing in reality. Facebook doesn't give a gently caress and constantly fucks up. Their motto is "move fast and break stuff" and they're loving up our society and the elections but don't care because they're making profit hand over fist. "won't someone think of the poor gigantic multi-billion corporations?" And then to say "SO THAT'S WHY, YOU loving PRICK" at the concept of someone saying "wow, you should really be able to pick which folder you install this software to" is just... I'm sorry, but that's not reasonable by any stretch of the imagination. I didn't say "Your friend <name here> is a lovely programmer!" so gently caress off. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Dec 9, 2019 |
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Dec 9, 2019 21:10
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Oh, so many posts, I wonder what VR games they are talking about! Oh.
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Dec 9, 2019 21:12
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Lemming posted:And with regards to the Steam security issues - https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/steam-zero-day-vulnerability-affects-over-100-million-users/ Though, if you read that article, the problem is purely with Windows registry files and nothing to do with install directory. Its completely tangential. Like, yeah, security is a thing. But that doesn't mean you can't install programs where you want in Windows??
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Dec 9, 2019 21:14
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homeless snail posted:They've never said it's going to replace touch controllers, even in the blog post the videos show them navigating web pages and using video player controls, and for that it'll probably be just fine. And those are situations you probably wouldn't want to pull out your controllers anyway I figured that was the case, I'm not looking for individual finger fidelity or anything like that but was wondering what they were pitching it for. Sounds neat if it works just as a way to navigate around before picking up the controllers or whatever. Another question for quest owners, is there a forward facing camera thing like the Vive has that you can enable to look out while in the headset? I really liked that feature so I could tell if I was about to squish one of my cats who decided to flop down in front of me but haven't heard mention of it on the Quest at all.
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Dec 9, 2019 21:14
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Beat saber is so good poo poo wow I’m comparing the quest to a borrowed PSVR and I am sorely missing Rez and Tetris Effect however
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Dec 9, 2019 21:16
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Combat Pretzel posted:I really want x2.25 resolution (i.e. 50% each axis) to make Bigscreen viable for longer productive use. It's kinda fun, but not. Refunds don't hurt a dev at all. I'm sure if a product was getting 70%+ refunds Valve might try to figure out what's going on, but my rather high percentage 10%+ has had no impact. Valve even stays that reviews don't affect placement/impressions either until they are extremely bad (less than 50% I believe). Please if you ever have interest in a game, buy it, try it refund it if you don't like it and leave a message for the developer (we can see the refund reasons). In general we'd prefer you not leave a bad review but even that's fine.
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Dec 9, 2019 21:36
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