interviewing: The Land of the Rising Fig

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > interviewing: The Land of the Rising Fig

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elite_garbage_man: Apr 3, 2010; I THINK THAT "PRIMA DONNA" IS "PRE-MADONNA". I MAY BE ILLITERATE.

I'm going to use that line for this security company I'm interviewing for to seal the deal.

# ? Dec 5, 2019 16:16

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# ? May 27, 2024 23:35

CPColin: Sep 9, 2003; Big ol' smile.

Evading a whiteboard question should be an automatic offer, imo.

# ? Dec 5, 2019 16:27

Mao Zedong Thot: Oct 16, 2008

CPColin posted:

Evading a whiteboard question should be an automatic offer, imo.

# ? Dec 5, 2019 18:16

4lokos basilisk: Jul 17, 2008

Kuvo posted:

man i loving hate whiteboard interview. was given this prompt today

1. write a new method that recieves an int array parameter
2. find the duplicate in the array and print them out ONLY ONCE using console
example:
input: 8, 3, 4, 5, 2, 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 3, 6
output: 2, 3, 4

to which i answered...
code:
	 var groups = input.GroupBy(a => a).Where(a => a.Count() > 1).ToList();
 foreach(var g in groups)
 {
 Console.WriteLine(g.Key);
 }
which i thought was nice an elegant but i guess the interview wanted me to spend 20 mins doing it without linq yielding...
code:
 	 Array.Sort(input);
 bool printed = false;
 
 	 for(int i = 1; i < input.Count(); i++)
 { 
 if(input[i] == input[i-1] && !printed)
 {
 	Console.WriteLine(input[i]);
 	printed = true; 
 }
 else
 {
			printed = false;
 }
 }
I get its an exercise to see my thought process but who does it like that? its makes me feel like an idiot to bumble though reinventing the wheel

i think the correct way to proceed in this case is to ask the interviewer "what should this algorithm be optimised for?". i.e. is this a situation where you have a working naive solution and you need to optimise it for something like:
1) complexity and execution speed matters most, i.e. they want you to micro-optimise that poo poo
2) you are restricted by memory or something else, i.e. they want you to provide a solution that scales in a cloud architecture
3) you just need something that works, optimisation can come later
4) needs to only use 13bit integers because gently caress you

i say this because i feel algorithm tasks like this are like data structures - you pick the one you need based on the characteristics of the task at hand. and if the interviewer has a specific solution in mind, here is the point where they can give you a hint as to what it is supposed to be that they are expecting - if they can not do that, maybe that is a failure on the part of the interviewer?

# ? Dec 5, 2019 19:00

Kuvo: Oct 27, 2008; Blame it on the misfortune of your bark!; Fun Shoe

well i just got a call from the recruiter saying they want to move forward with the in person interview next week so i guess i didnt gently caress up that badly. if i talk to the guy who did the tech screen ill ask him what his rational was for that answer

Penisface posted:

i think the correct way to proceed in this case is to ask the interviewer "what should this algorithm be optimised for?". i.e. is this a situation where you have a working naive solution and you need to optimise it for something like:
1) complexity and execution speed matters most, i.e. they want you to micro-optimise that poo poo
2) you are restricted by memory or something else, i.e. they want you to provide a solution that scales in a cloud architecture
3) you just need something that works, optimisation can come later
4) needs to only use 13bit integers because gently caress you

ya after the call yesterday i was thinkin about it and its basis probably had something to do with restricted memory / process time optimization but that wasn't really specified in the question

# ? Dec 5, 2019 19:10

4lokos basilisk: Jul 17, 2008

i think that's the thing with whiteboards - you should demonstrate that you can talk with the other person to work out the solution too. if you are exploring options and describing different approaches to the interviewer, i feel like it's up to them to nudge you in the correct direction (if they have something in mind)

# ? Dec 5, 2019 19:12

MononcQc: May 29, 2007

ShadowHawk posted:

A friend who was searching for interns once told me he asked candidates to write a program drawing a picture of a cow.

I told him "here's my entry"
code:
#!/bin/bash
apt-get moo
He said he'd have given me a position.

code:

#! tail -n+2
<draw your loving thing>

# ? Dec 5, 2019 19:20

raminasi: Jan 25, 2005; a last drink with no ice

ThePeavstenator posted:

That second solution they pushed you towards is not good and attempting to micro-optimize C# like this is dumb as hell.

The only things I would even change about the first solution is replace the .Count() in the .Where() with .Length since calling .Count() for each result can technically result in multiple enumerations if the same value, but it won't matter if you know the input is an Array.

Also the .ToList() can get removed since it will allocate a separate List for your query results where iterating over the IEnumerable returned by the query will lazily evaluate each result as you iterate. The lazy evaluation isn't even really going to come into play here though since .GroupBy() internally has to allocate a new collection and evaluate all query results up to that point in the query.

Basically what I'm saying is even by C# turbo-nerd standards the original code you wrote is preferable in like 99% of whatever real-world cases they were thinking of when they wrote that problem.

if we're gonna be c# turbonerds, IGrouping<T> doesn't have .Length, so you have to use .Count()

i'd bet money that question was ported by a c or c++ person who never really learned c# and can't be bothered to

# ? Dec 6, 2019 05:16

ShadowHawk: Jun 25, 2000; CERTIFIED PRE OWNED TESLA OWNER

Steve Jorbs posted:

This is a nice anecdote but is it any different from the regular whiteboard slog? You happened to know the *one weird trick* that answered the question.

Depending on what sort of position you're looking for, a bias towards "not writing code" might be a good thing. In my actual job I've found a lot of the work I do involves just using existing things, or bypassing the problem altogether in some form. Or writing little designs about how systems connect for others to code. Or being the first to understand some arcane configuration for super-important infrastructure that no one remembers how it works.

I don't think any interview processes really capture that sort of stuff at all though. And even though I write only 10 lines of actual programming code a week the majority of my interviewing was coding on a whiteboard.

# ? Dec 6, 2019 12:48

feedmegin: Jul 30, 2008

Sooo I'm a fairly experienced/senior embedded C++ and Linux guy and it looks like I'm moving to London since my wife has landed a job in Stratford. Any job market advice from London goons?

# ? Dec 10, 2019 00:19

Trimson Grondag 3: Jul 1, 2007; Clapping Larry

how bad a sign is private equity ownership of a company? as in bought by kkr a few years ago and about to IPO.

# ? Dec 10, 2019 01:20

Chopstick Dystopia: Jun 16, 2010; lowest high and highest low loser of: WEED WEE
k

feedmegin posted:

Sooo I'm a fairly experienced/senior embedded C++ and Linux guy and it looks like I'm moving to London since my wife has landed a job in Stratford. Any job market advice from London goons?

I'm not in London but it seems like salaries there are terrible. Maybe try working for a remote friendly US place.

# ? Dec 10, 2019 01:49

asur: Dec 28, 2012

Chopstick Dystopia posted:

I'm not in London but it seems like salaries there are terrible. Maybe try working for a remote friendly US place.

Either this or get a job at a US company with a location in London.

# ? Dec 10, 2019 03:01

in a well actually: Jan 26, 2011; dude, you gotta end it on the rhyme

Trimson Grondag 3 posted:

how bad a sign is private equity ownership of a company? as in bought by kkr a few years ago and about to IPO.

not great, not terrible

at least you�re on the other side of the acquisition

otoh fuckery around goosing the numbers pre ipo

and then if numbers don�t go up, more fuckery

# ? Dec 10, 2019 04:26

PIZZA.BAT: Nov 12, 2016

Trimson Grondag 3 posted:

how bad a sign is private equity ownership of a company? as in bought by kkr a few years ago and about to IPO.

presumably they can see the actual finances and are happy enough with what they see that they're willing to finance things short term until they can flip the company

otoh with all the absurd stupidity we've seen lately who fuckin knows anymore

just get paid

# ? Dec 10, 2019 05:15

distortion park: Apr 25, 2011

feedmegin posted:

Sooo I'm a fairly experienced/senior embedded C++ and Linux guy and it looks like I'm moving to London since my wife has landed a job in Stratford. Any job market advice from London goons?

As the others said pay is bad unless you can get a sweet remote US position (hard) or find something in finance (probably less hard given your experience, depends how much is embedded vs just C++)

# ? Dec 10, 2019 11:31

Trimson Grondag 3: Jul 1, 2007; Clapping Larry

PIZZA.BAT posted:

presumably they can see the actual finances and are happy enough with what they see that they're willing to finance things short term until they can flip the company

otoh with all the absurd stupidity we've seen lately who fuckin knows anymore

just get paid

yeah I'm trying to go from Product back to Presales partly because the money is way better, figgies are focus. agree probably no point focusing too much on ownership poo poo.

# ? Dec 11, 2019 02:20

Beve Stuscemi: Jun 6, 2001

Trimson Grondag 3 posted:

figgies are focus

name of my mixtape dropping this week

# ? Dec 11, 2019 02:37

PIZZA.BAT: Nov 12, 2016

in other news another competitor reached out to me for another sales engineering job and they seem excited. so i've got three prospects on the grill now. they're all moving real slow though

# ? Dec 11, 2019 02:37

PIZZA.BAT: Nov 12, 2016

also on a whim i came up with a pretty good detraction regarding early figgy talk if they press it: i'm not too concerned that the offer will be competitive and think it's safe to move forwards. however if $company isn't they can tell me the range they had in mind just to be sure

that's shut that poo poo down twice in a row now. i like it

# ? Dec 11, 2019 02:47

CrazyLittle: Sep 11, 2001; Clapping Larry

Gap keeps trying to recruit me for a position that's been open repeatedly for the past 18 months...

# ? Dec 11, 2019 02:49

Kuvo: Oct 27, 2008; Blame it on the misfortune of your bark!; Fun Shoe

i got a job :unsmith:

# ? Dec 11, 2019 02:50

Captain Foo: May 11, 2004; we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Kuvo posted:

i got a job

yay! Now you get to go to it!

# ? Dec 11, 2019 02:53

Captain Foo: May 11, 2004; we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

PIZZA.BAT posted:

also on a whim i came up with a pretty good detraction regarding early figgy talk if they press it: i'm not too concerned that the offer will be competitive and think it's safe to move forwards. however if $company isn't they can tell me the range they had in mind just to be sure

that's shut that poo poo down twice in a row now. i like it

hmm this seems p deece

# ? Dec 11, 2019 02:53

PIZZA.BAT: Nov 12, 2016

Kuvo posted:

i got a job

grats

also :rip:

# ? Dec 11, 2019 02:53

PokeJoe: Aug 24, 2004; hail cgatan

PIZZA.BAT posted:

also on a whim i came up with a pretty good detraction regarding early figgy talk if they press it: i'm not too concerned that the offer will be competitive and think it's safe to move forwards. however if $company isn't they can tell me the range they had in mind just to be sure

that's shut that poo poo down twice in a row now. i like it

p. good advice

# ? Dec 11, 2019 03:08

Sapozhnik: Jan 2, 2005; Nap Ghost

new job sucks but it sucks in an everyday boring way instead of an abusive way so w/e

nice to be getting paid again after 1yr of burnout-induced unemployment but i don't think the burnout has really healed much

# ? Dec 11, 2019 03:22

Valeyard: Mar 30, 2012; Grimey Drawer

im already sending out the feelers and getting ready to apply to a new job after christmas

# ? Dec 11, 2019 03:51

Valeyard: Mar 30, 2012; Grimey Drawer

im not particuarly unhappy, its just time for a change

# ? Dec 11, 2019 03:53

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

PIZZA.BAT posted:

so i've got three prospects on the grill now. they're all moving real slow though

entirely expected, this time of year. if theres any movement at all on those three prospects before january 2 id be stunned

november-december is just the shittiest time to job hunt

# ? Dec 11, 2019 04:10

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

PIZZA.BAT posted:

in other news another competitor reached out to me for another sales engineering job and they seem excited. so i've got three prospects on the grill now. they're all moving real slow though

the best part of sales/applications engineering after figgies is that the bar for being �sociable� is buried in the loving ground

# ? Dec 11, 2019 04:18

Valeyard: Mar 30, 2012; Grimey Drawer

FMguru posted:

entirely expected, this time of year. if theres any movement at all on those three prospects before january 2 id be stunned

november-december is just the shittiest time to job hunt

counter point, theres also less competition

gently caress, the places ive worked at literally close any open positions they have by october and just dont hire until january, so if you have somewhere that is still actively hiring at this time of year then its not such a bad thing

# ? Dec 11, 2019 04:21

Cucumbers: Apr 9, 2006; <img alt="" border="0" src="https://fi.somethingawful.com/customtitles/title-cucumbers.jpg" /> Happy Train Speedmobile! (Stallman Approved)

interviewing really is hell.

the developer I'm in contact with gave me a small four hour take-home assignment in Scala (with a 2 days deadline from the time of the handout),
and said I should complete and then come to the office and discuss my solution with them.

so I just returned a solution a couple of hours ago for this "four hour" task where they expected me to
* expand a simple REST api by adding user creation routes and logic, authorization routes and logic and expanding the existing routes to use authorization middleware
* alter the existing database tables, and add new ones as well
* write tests for the whole shebang
* integrate swagger documentation generation in the new solution
* redesign the code and split the three files in the handout out into a more reasonable project structure
which is all in all quite a lot.

I have plenty of FP and monad experience in stuff like OCaml, Haskell and F#, but haven't touched Scala before at all,
and especially not the database- and the http service frameworks used in the code.
I did my best within (double the) allotted time, but it was really not realistic for me to just pick up scala from scratch
and then understand and use quite complex monadic HTTP service frameworks within this timespace, so I just finished as much as possible.

during the case period, I asked the interviewer for some pointers to the framework part of the case,
and he replied with a variant of "just use your best judgement for it. we are most of all interested in seeing how you work" which is fine, I guess -
but I do feel that it's unfair to judge me by whether I could pick up (multiple) frameworks within four hours, and not on what I actually got done.

for the case, they gave me read-only access to a private github repo with the source code.
I still have access, and now I'm receiving github notifications on the various developers' review of my solution.
they're debating whether it makes sense to invite me back in for the evaluation at all,
It's by accident, but it still suuuuuuucks.

In general I'm just frustrated that they say they want functional programmers, and then test them on pretty basic tasks implemented using quite complex functionality.
In an actual work setting I could just ask any of my colleagues how to use such-and-such framework, get taught and then go on my merry productive way afterwards.
no wonder some offices have trouble finding qualified candidates when they expect such specific knowledge from the applicants.
all knowledge that could be picked up in a few real work days.

# ? Dec 12, 2019 16:01

PIZZA.BAT: Nov 12, 2016

Cucumbers posted:

interviewing really is hell.

the developer I'm in contact with gave me a small four hour take-home assignment in Scala (with a 2 days deadline from the time of the handout),
and said I should complete and then come to the office and discuss my solution with them.

so I just returned a solution a couple of hours ago for this "four hour" task where they expected me to
* expand a simple REST api by adding user creation routes and logic, authorization routes and logic and expanding the existing routes to use authorization middleware
* alter the existing database tables, and add new ones as well
* write tests for the whole shebang
* integrate swagger documentation generation in the new solution
* redesign the code and split the three files in the handout out into a more reasonable project structure
which is all in all quite a lot.

I have plenty of FP and monad experience in stuff like OCaml, Haskell and F#, but haven't touched Scala before at all,
and especially not the database- and the http service frameworks used in the code.
I did my best within (double the) allotted time, but it was really not realistic for me to just pick up scala from scratch
and then understand and use quite complex monadic HTTP service frameworks within this timespace, so I just finished as much as possible.

during the case period, I asked the interviewer for some pointers to the framework part of the case,
and he replied with a variant of "just use your best judgement for it. we are most of all interested in seeing how you work" which is fine, I guess -
but I do feel that it's unfair to judge me by whether I could pick up (multiple) frameworks within four hours, and not on what I actually got done.

for the case, they gave me read-only access to a private github repo with the source code.
I still have access, and now I'm receiving github notifications on the various developers' review of my solution.
they're debating whether it makes sense to invite me back in for the evaluation at all,
It's by accident, but it still suuuuuuucks.

In general I'm just frustrated that they say they want functional programmers, and then test them on pretty basic tasks implemented using quite complex functionality.
In an actual work setting I could just ask any of my colleagues how to use such-and-such framework, get taught and then go on my merry productive way afterwards.
no wonder some offices have trouble finding qualified candidates when they expect such specific knowledge from the applicants.
all knowledge that could be picked up in a few real work days.

you probably got played by that 'get work accomplished by pretending it's a coding exercise' scam

the second they give you a takehome that looks like it will produce useable code you should run like hell

# ? Dec 12, 2019 16:09

ADINSX: Sep 9, 2003; Wanna run with my crew huh? Rule cyberspace and crunch numbers like I do?

I'm a fan of the take home in theory, but that is absolutely too much poo poo for a takehome.

# ? Dec 12, 2019 16:10

Private Speech: Mar 30, 2011; I HAVE EVEN MORE WORTHLESS BEANIE BABIES IN MY COLLECTION THAN I HAVE WORTHLESS POSTS IN THE BEANIE BABY THREAD YET I STILL HAVE THE TEMERITY TO CRITICIZE OTHERS' COLLECTIONS

IF YOU SEE ME TALKING ABOUT BEANIE BABIES, PLEASE TELL ME TO

EAT. SHIT.

Cucumbers posted:

interviewing really is hell.

...

In general I'm just frustrated that they say they want functional programmers, and then test them on pretty basic tasks implemented using quite complex functionality.

what people say in the ad and what the job will be like might not be the same thing, just saying

I'm guilty of writing a posting for an "embedded C" position with some python knowledge for testing, where the actual role is mostly loving about with test suites written in Python 90% of the time (they still run on embedded custom-built machines so some knowledge of embedded concepts is essential, in my defense).

It worked, too, got a couple of great candidates and the one hired is still with the company to my knowledge. Though I did obliquely tell them the truth at the last interview.

Private Speech fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Dec 12, 2019

# ? Dec 12, 2019 16:27

barkbell: Apr 14, 2006; woof

went to a tech social event last night. ceo of dev shop in town said come work for me. ive only been at my current position for a month and its my first dev job. where were all these people when i was trying to land my first job? its like no one wants to talk to you until another company vets you then its game on.

# ? Dec 12, 2019 16:30

PIZZA.BAT: Nov 12, 2016

barkbell posted:

went to a tech social event last night. ceo of dev shop in town said come work for me. ive only been at my current position for a month and its my first dev job. where were all these people when i was trying to land my first job? its like no one wants to talk to you until another company vets you then its game on.

you nailed it

# ? Dec 12, 2019 16:35

theadder: Dec 30, 2011

Cucumbers posted:

interviewing really is hell.

the developer I'm in contact with gave me a small four hour take-home assignment in Scala (with a 2 days deadline from the time of the handout),
and said I should complete and then come to the office and discuss my solution with them.

so I just returned a solution a couple of hours ago for this "four hour" task where they expected me to
* expand a simple REST api by adding user creation routes and logic, authorization routes and logic and expanding the existing routes to use authorization middleware
* alter the existing database tables, and add new ones as well
* write tests for the whole shebang
* integrate swagger documentation generation in the new solution
* redesign the code and split the three files in the handout out into a more reasonable project structure
which is all in all quite a lot.

I have plenty of FP and monad experience in stuff like OCaml, Haskell and F#, but haven't touched Scala before at all,
and especially not the database- and the http service frameworks used in the code.
I did my best within (double the) allotted time, but it was really not realistic for me to just pick up scala from scratch
and then understand and use quite complex monadic HTTP service frameworks within this timespace, so I just finished as much as possible.

during the case period, I asked the interviewer for some pointers to the framework part of the case,
and he replied with a variant of "just use your best judgement for it. we are most of all interested in seeing how you work" which is fine, I guess -
but I do feel that it's unfair to judge me by whether I could pick up (multiple) frameworks within four hours, and not on what I actually got done.

for the case, they gave me read-only access to a private github repo with the source code.
I still have access, and now I'm receiving github notifications on the various developers' review of my solution.
they're debating whether it makes sense to invite me back in for the evaluation at all,
It's by accident, but it still suuuuuuucks.

In general I'm just frustrated that they say they want functional programmers, and then test them on pretty basic tasks implemented using quite complex functionality.
In an actual work setting I could just ask any of my colleagues how to use such-and-such framework, get taught and then go on my merry productive way afterwards.
no wonder some offices have trouble finding qualified candidates when they expect such specific knowledge from the applicants.
all knowledge that could be picked up in a few real work days.

ive never programmed anything and i can see this is bad op

# ? Dec 12, 2019 16:35

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# ? May 27, 2024 23:35

Blockade: Oct 22, 2008

Any organization I would tolerate an unpaid "4 hour take home assignment" from, wouldn't do that to any of their potential hires.

# ? Dec 12, 2019 16:54

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > interviewing: The Land of the Rising Fig

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