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Put me down as another person who never had any trouble with Liberty Island and doesn't understand why it's so infamous, to the point where I kinda want to see video of someone playing it for the first time and struggling with it to see where they're going wrong. The combat is clunky as hell for sure, especially with a low skill JC, but the HUD makes it very clear what's going on and how to mitigate it even if you skipped the tutorial (and who in their right mind would do that?). Most of the "things to do" are either explicitly called out by Alex or Paul or seem fairly self explanatory, and did a great job of conveying what was going to make the game special to me: finding your own solution out of many possibilities. Apparently I'm the outlier though, and it has always baffled me ever since I first encountered the popular idea that DX "gets better" after Liberty Island.
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Nov 16, 2019 23:59
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Lork posted:Put me down as another person who never had any trouble with Liberty Island and doesn't understand why it's so infamous, to the point where I kinda want to see video of someone playing it for the first time and struggling with it to see where they're going wrong. When did you first play DX? I would bet the closer to release you played, the more ball-busting it was.
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Nov 17, 2019 00:04
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Those years are all a blur to me so I can't pin it down exactly, but I'm fairly sure I played it around the time I played Morrowind, so probably between 2002-2003.
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Nov 17, 2019 00:16
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Gynovore posted:That's.... yeah. From a real world standpoint, it's incredibly dumb for the Super Secret base to have it's only entrance through the Not So Secret Base. And it's on Liberty Island, so the only possible other entrances would be a sub bay or diver enclosure. At the same time Deus Ex was being released Bungie was working on Oni and one of its selling points was that the levels were designed by actual architects. Turns out real functional architecture makes for really boring levels.
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Nov 17, 2019 00:24
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Sleeveless posted:At the same time Deus Ex was being released Bungie was working on Oni and one of its selling points was that the levels were designed by actual architects. Turns out real functional architecture makes for really boring levels. I actually owned this and all I remember are empty rooms full of boxes to punch and kick people in. I'm another one who had no issues with liberty Island. I played it when I was 14-15 I think, I learned pretty quickly not to try and gun people but I got pretty good with tranqing and sneaking. I think I accidentally discovered you could stack crates to reach the top from the outside by my 3rd try.
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Nov 17, 2019 00:38
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Ugly In The Morning posted:When did you first play DX? I would bet the closer to release you played, the more ball-busting it was. I played it release year as a... twelve year old and it didn't pose me a huge amount of trouble It single handedly created my love for stealthily knocking guards out and stuffing them in vents, thanks deus ex
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Nov 17, 2019 00:43
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My first playthrough was close enough to release that I never read about it but far enough away that I got it for cheap. Liberty Island hosed me up a whole bunch until I realized I was superman and carved through the NSF like a hot knife through butter. Then my traitor big brother bitched me out so I tried again and holy poo poo the game sucked me in at that point.
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Nov 17, 2019 00:51
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I played the game like a decade after it came out and had problems figuring out what I was meant to do. I think I was confused about the layout of the statue and didn't notice where you could keep going up, so I spent a while looking around below. It seems pretty obvious in hindsight, but I think I just wasn't sure where I was meant to be going. Also this is unrelated, but I've seen many people say you can knock people out by hitting them in the back of the head, or the rear end. I've tried this a bunch of times and have never gotten either one to work. What's the deal?
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Nov 17, 2019 01:29
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Momomo posted:I played the game like a decade after it came out and had problems figuring out what I was meant to do. I think I was confused about the layout of the statue and didn't notice where you could keep going up, so I spent a while looking around below. It seems pretty obvious in hindsight, but I think I just wasn't sure where I was meant to be going. The hit box for the one shot KO is a bit above the rear end, IIRC.
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Nov 17, 2019 01:34
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Small of the back or in the neck.
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Nov 17, 2019 01:39
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Alchenar posted:The problem with Liberty Island is that you start the game with no biomods worth anything and barely any skill points (which you have probably spent on some trap choices), so if you get into a firefight with your crappy pistol that takes 10 seconds to aim then you are in real trouble. In that first mission there's nothing that makes the game stand out other than the freeform map, and plenty that makes the game look sub-par in comparison to contemporaries. DX came out in 2000, when the market was saturated with Quake and Unreal and 84382 other shooters. A lot of people hopped in and said "its 3D with guns so its like Quake!!" so they charged headlong into Liberty Island and got wasted.
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Nov 17, 2019 02:06
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Alchenar posted:The problem with Liberty Island is that you start the game with no biomods worth anything and barely any skill points (which you have probably spent on some trap choices), so if you get into a firefight with your crappy pistol that takes 10 seconds to aim then you are in real trouble. In that first mission there's nothing that makes the game stand out other than the freeform map, and plenty that makes the game look sub-par in comparison to contemporaries. It felt a lot more intuitive if you'd played Thief.
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Nov 17, 2019 03:24
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Gynovore posted:DX came out in 2000, when the market was saturated with Quake and Unreal and 84382 other shooters. A lot of people hopped in and said "its 3D with guns so its like Quake!!" so they charged headlong into Liberty Island and got wasted. I did this too when I downloaded the Deus Ex demo back in 2000. The first time. I figured it out pretty quickly, and made it to the top after a bit of trial and error, though it took me another run and more saving/loading to spring Gunther. IMO Liberty Island is a brilliant introduction that makes you get used to the things that the game is all about. It's true that the game has a backwards difficulty curve (typical of 0451 games from both before and after it, though) so Liberty Island is probably the hardest the game will be, especially as a new player. Though in practice Liberty Island wasn't as well received as I think it deserved to be, which is probably why shortly after they released a second demo that ran until you got on the helicopter after blowing up the power plant in Hell's Kitchen.
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Nov 17, 2019 03:36
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BattleMaster posted:I did this too when I downloaded the Deus Ex demo back in 2000. The first time. I figured it out pretty quickly, and made it to the top after a bit of trial and error, though it took me another run and more saving/loading to spring Gunther. Typical of a lot of RPGs generally, I think - they have to design the late game with a wide range of builds in mind... And sometimes scenarios that might be challenging to a properly built character just won't be fun. There's certainly an art to tuning the difficulty curve; it's not something a lot of companies probably focus on, though, as it won't matter for most purchase decisions.
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Nov 17, 2019 07:36
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Ugly In The Morning posted:You know what would be awesome, would be a guerilla warfare immersive sim, where you really need all the random supplies and intel you can find because you’re going up against an enemy that’s way, way bigger than you. You can play Metal Gear Solid V exactly like this, particularly with some mods.
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Nov 17, 2019 13:34
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Ugly In The Morning posted:You know what would be awesome, would be a guerilla warfare immersive sim, where you really need all the random supplies and intel you can find because you’re going up against an enemy that’s way, way bigger than you. Operation Flashpoint: Resistance (now part of ArmA: Cold War Assault) is close to what you're looking for.
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Nov 17, 2019 15:46
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There is nothing "quaint" about nineties conspiracy theories, firmly rooted in white supremacy. In that vain, I recently found out about the other book Pierce wrote, author of Turner Diaries, and it is called Hunter, idolizing Joseph Franklin, one of these pre-modern "stochastic" terrorists. He was also the one trying to kill Larry Flynt. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Paul_Franklin
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Nov 17, 2019 16:05
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AstroWhale posted:There is nothing "quaint" about nineties conspiracy theories, firmly rooted in white supremacy. In that vain, I recently found out about the other book Pierce wrote, author of Turner Diaries, and it is called Hunter, idolizing Joseph Franklin, one of these pre-modern "stochastic" terrorists. He was also the one trying to kill Larry Flynt. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Paul_Franklin The people who grew up smirking and rolling their eyes at how the 50s were mythologized as a better and more pure time wound up doing the same thing themselves to the 90s. The world wasn't quaint or more innocent then, you were just a kid so it seemed that way.
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Nov 17, 2019 16:31
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Angry_Ed posted:Operation Flashpoint: Resistance (now part of ArmA: Cold War Assault) is close to what you're looking for. I had that way back when it first came out and totally forgot about it until just now. I’ll have to reinstall it! I was so, so bad at OpFlash back in the day.
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Nov 17, 2019 17:33
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A lot of people only experienced Liberty Island because they couldn't get on the boat.
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Nov 17, 2019 21:20
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I was playin the Liberty Island demo  Ever since playing that demo, I use Denton as my fake last name if I need to write my name down somewhere and I don't want to put my real one for some reason.
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Nov 17, 2019 22:46
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JC Tenton is my spirit animal (I’m fat)
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Nov 17, 2019 22:51
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goatsestretchgoals posted:JC Tenton is my spirit animal (I’m fat) 
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Nov 17, 2019 22:59
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That was a great thread Tracer Tong: “That’s strange. Why would a bakery need a security system?” JC Tenton: ...
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Nov 18, 2019 07:31
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4orTvfvdz8
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Nov 18, 2019 08:16
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Momomo posted:Also this is unrelated, but I've seen many people say you can knock people out by hitting them in the back of the head, or the rear end. I've tried this a bunch of times and have never gotten either one to work. What's the deal?
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Nov 23, 2019 11:44
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Xander77 posted:I'm reasonably sure Bobbin's LP (and other sources) definitively established "the back - not the head or legs" as the knockout spot, no highly specific waist or shoulder-blades sweet spots required. Yeah it's the torso. It felt weird to learn that you have to wallop people in the spine rather than the back of the head to knock them out.
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Nov 23, 2019 12:33
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I played Deus Ex upon release, played the training level so I understood how to play the game, and found the first real level entertaining and engaging and at no point too difficult 🤔
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Nov 25, 2019 00:09
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I prodded/nightsticked everyone on Liberty Island on my first playthrough to hoard supplies. Would have worked better if the NSF handed out more than 2 bullets to each soldier.
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Nov 25, 2019 00:28
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Oh thank god a working DX thread! The ones in my bookmarks haven't updated in years and got archived, alas. I'll copy/paste what I wrote in the Prey thread:Serephina posted:So, I just bought & finished Mankind Divided over the thankgiving sale. Went in knowing that there was a lot of bad - the terrible DLC etc, so was able to ignore it. Everyone was right, Prague was very well done, but I gotta say, it probably would have served better in a different game. The open world was a treasure to poke around in and explore, with lots of small storytelling details, all lovely, but... Having such an open-world available really ruins the pacing of the game, not to mention the power progression of the player. You can lug over and sell random guns to vendors! This is bad! So by the time most of the player base gets off their arse and does the first mission, they've probably got 50% of the available xp in the entire game, and a several fully kitted out guns. Oops. Compare this to MD, which has the retroactively-funny moment where after yelling at the player for 15 minutes to show up, hostages die (oops). It's good world-building in a different way. Its a shame that I can't get DX:Revision working nicely in linux else I'd give biomod a whirl. Everything is so goddamn dark and the brightness dial doesn't work.
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Dec 10, 2019 16:03
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Wait what? I'm too caught by you thinking the DLC is bad to even consider the rest of the post.
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Dec 10, 2019 16:09
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I managed to convince my friend to play it and stream it and I've been enjoying seeing a blind playthrough of it but he missed Smuggler and the sewers in Hell's Kitchen the first time through so I hope that won't end up being an issue.
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Dec 10, 2019 16:12
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The DLC issue is slightly annoying, but you can completely ignore it and the game isn't really any worse for it. A Criminal Past is really good, and actually makes sense as DLC. System Rift is still good but at a bare minimum should have been integrated into the game. That other mission shouldn't have been DLC.
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Dec 10, 2019 16:14
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The only problem with DLC was them being poorly integrated into the rest of the game. 1 of them was a sidequest ripped off the main game - I'm not joking, no one in their right mind could play it and not think it was from another game. Another one (System Rift) was at least planned in its entirety before the game shipped, cause there are numerous references to it in the main story. But I guess it was developed later cause it has a much better understanding of the game systems and story (e.g. it's the only place where you feel like being oppressed because of your prostheses). The last one is the only one that feels right: it's a prequel in a completely different setting and a completely different story. Other two suffer from not being integrated into the main game cause you have to respec your character and nothing you do inside of those stories matters for the rest of the game even if it should. Both of them canonically happen during the main game. But Criminal Past is all around great. You are also right about the game being too open too soon. I think most of the side missions can be done or started before you go for your first mission and you are even encouraged to do so. In my first playthrough I've cleared out most of the locations in Prague and had to revisit them later to quickly do a mission in an empty building.
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Dec 10, 2019 16:30
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There was some other stupid DLC stuff like the one-time use items that would forever lock themselves to a particular save game.
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Dec 10, 2019 16:33
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jojoinnit posted:Wait what? I'm too caught by you thinking the DLC is bad to even consider the rest of the post. Ugly In The Morning posted:There was some other stupid DLC stuff like the one-time use items that would forever lock themselves to a particular save game. Basically that. The cringe worthy triangle code app thingie, the cash and praxis boosts, the single-use items, the in-app purchases on the main menu, it's all spectacularly bad. Uh, there's some actual content stuff like Criminal Past, but I cbf honestly.
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Dec 10, 2019 16:42
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Serephina posted:Basically that. The cringe worthy triangle code app thingie, the cash and praxis boosts, the single-use items, the in-app purchases on the main menu, it's all spectacularly bad. Uh, there's some actual content stuff like Criminal Past, but I cbf honestly. Fair enough, after I posted that I considered that might be what you had meant. The DLC is worth it for Criminal Past alone but I ignored the cash-in stuff and forget it even exists when I replay.
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Dec 10, 2019 17:00
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Who's excited for the tenth anniversary of the tenth anniversary thread (and 20th anniversary playthroughs)? I'm definitely clearing some time next summer.
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Dec 10, 2019 17:03
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Nail Rat posted:Who's excited for the tenth anniversary of the tenth anniversary thread (and 20th anniversary playthroughs)? I play the original DX almost every summer, I’ve probably beaten it about a dozen times by now.
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Dec 10, 2019 17:17
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I haven't had a replay in years due to only having a Mac. I've set up an old Windows laptop this week just for it because I'm itching to revisit everything.
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Dec 10, 2019 18:54
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