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Combat Pretzel posted:lol, can't call up a game menu in the game with the Index controllers. If it's supposed to work, it's unintuitive as gently caress. Also, WMR guys are whining about bindings. Maybe it's related. Like until you fall does? Forces you to not swing a sledge hammer faster than humanly possibly. Sounds great. Can’t wait to jump in shortly. rage-saq posted:Pretty lovely still. I tried it out the other week and while some of the control issues have been fixed, others still remain and the gunplay is garbage as always. I know tons of people who love it. I don’t disagree that like gunplay still needs work and I hate the bullet sponge nature but come on. It’s a fun game for 8 bucks.
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Dec 10, 2019 21:00
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EbolaIvory posted:Like until you fall does? The climbing, I hope there isn't too much of it. Climbey works great for that, but it also has the freedom to ignore collisions with your own body. In BW, you're also flopping about, e.g. when you try to grab across your other arm. Plus your virtual body weight is pulling on you.
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Dec 10, 2019 21:05
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Combat Pretzel posted:Haven't played that. It's just weird, because it makes your avatar not match the motions. You get used to it I guess. Oh it was weird af for a while don’t get me wrong. Brain clicked about the time it realized it was trying to slow my swing down lol
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Dec 10, 2019 21:12
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EbolaIvory posted:Like until you fall does? Pavlov is now $25, and has a very large team for VR (something like 10+ people working on it). I think the gun play is fine, I think it's the best multiplayer traditional shooter in VR right now. A little confused about the bullet sponge as it's one headshot with most rifles to kill someone and headshots aren't that hard in VR. Sometimes when playing I've gotten like 5 kills with 8 quick trigger pulls (single shot AK). I'm not sure how you'd make that less bullet spongy. With the large team they'll keep adding/improving. They have a ton of weird game modes now, you're as likely to see people playing Coop Zombies, or a version of Werewolf/Jailbreak or Gun Game, then you will to see DM/bomb the target. Link to game: https://store.steampowered.com/app/555160/Pavlov_VR/ Stick100 fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Dec 10, 2019 |
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Dec 10, 2019 21:18
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Stick100 posted:Pavlov is now $25, and has a very large team for VR (something like 10+ people working on it). I think the gun play is fine, I think it's the best multiplayer traditional shooter in VR right now. A little confused about the bullet sponge as it's one headshot with most rifles to kill someone and headshots aren't that hard in VR. Sometimes when playing I've gotten like 5 kills with 8 quick trigger pulls (single shot AK). I'm not sure how you'd make that less bullet spongy. Oh poo poo I had no idea it went up in price. I still say it’s worth it due to the content available but drat, had no freaking idea it went up that much. Holy hell.
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Dec 10, 2019 21:26
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EbolaIvory posted:Oh poo poo I had no idea it went up in price. Agreed it was a pretty big change. They did signal it for weeks/months ahead of time even even had more more sale down to like $8 and specifically they said afterwards they are now staffing up significantly.
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Dec 10, 2019 21:59
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Stick100 posted:Agreed it was a pretty big change. They did signal it for weeks/months ahead of time even even had more more sale down to like $8 and specifically they said afterwards they are now staffing up significantly. Does make it harder to shotgun recommend now though. Part of its beauty was its price.
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Dec 10, 2019 22:00
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As a new VR player, I have to say the 'sheen' of the novelty is wearing off fast, because what I'm noticing already is lots of VR games are really mediocre. The coolness of looking around and using your hands is barely enough to offset how underwhelming or full problems are some of the 'fist gen' VR games. I can't be surprised that some Rift/Vive owners started to having their device getting dust for months. The good news is that they aren't mediocre because it's somehow inherent to VR, they are mediocre in non-VR related areas, because low budgets, short dev times and/or bad devs. An example. Arizona Sunshine is barely a FPS, more a gallery shooter where you advance at your pace. It's inherently cool to aim your weapon and cap a zombie, but the rest of the game is dogshit. I mean things like story, npcs, dialogue (atrocious!), interesting level design, enemy variety, resource management, how other gameplay elements like exploration or puzzles are woven into the core game (they don't), etc. Or Job Simulator. It's a good 'look this is VR!' demo, with lots of things to touch and interact, but it's more an 'experience'. And even as an experience, jeez, they should have hired some real comedy writers, around 1 in 20 jokes is funny. Or I Expect you to Die. This is pretty good in places! I like the superspy theme, the humor is better ,and in general I like first person 'touchy' puzzlers like The Room. But it limits itself to one single place while The Room is able to tie together multiple puzzles seamlessly while you go back and forth, and more importantly, IEYTD does big mistakes like killing the player while not having any checkpoint system. Great idea. Thanks god this is me going back to already released games, I expect better from here onwards.
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Dec 10, 2019 22:18
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Guess we’ll see when Half-Life: Alyx is released.
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Dec 10, 2019 22:25
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Turin Turambar posted:... With the exception of HL:Alyx you might be disappointed. You're playing first gen games when there was a huge expectation/funding wave. Things have actually gotten markedly worse now that most games barely make a couple thousand dollars. Oculus is out there swinging for the fences with things like Defector / Stormlands / Azguards Wrath. Content not funded by a platform is basically dead. The AA/AAA that stepped in without direct platform funding as has all left. In general I think you should not look for good complete experiences but instead things that work well for VR like H3VR Take and Hold, Beat Saber, Sound Boxing, the Serious Sam Collection/Talos Principle. Also the sims that cross over in to VR are great like Elite/No Mans Sky.
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Dec 10, 2019 22:28
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Turin Turambar posted:As a new VR player, I have to say the 'sheen' of the novelty is wearing off fast, because what I'm noticing already is lots of VR games are really mediocre. The coolness of looking around and using your hands is barely enough to offset how underwhelming or full problems are some of the 'fist gen' VR games. I can't be surprised that some Rift/Vive owners started to having their device getting dust for months. The good news is that they aren't mediocre because it's somehow inherent to VR, they are mediocre in non-VR related areas, because low budgets, short dev times and/or bad devs. I disagree with this. A lot of VR games even with a massive budget wouldn't be that interesting because they aren't doing anything really new. "*genre* but in VR" is cool, but it's not an inherently transformative experience. This is in part because things are so new, that it's difficult to figure out what can or should be done. That said there are some things that could *only* exist in VR, like Lone Echo/Echo Arena/Echo Combat. Those are the things that are going to push the medium going forward.
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Dec 10, 2019 22:31
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Well, I'm not expecting VR games to be AAA like The Last of US 2 or Cyberpunk. I know HL Alyx will be more the exception, no the rule, for a number of years. Indie graphics are fine, as games of 6-7 hours. But from a game design viewpoint, some VR games are very undercooked.
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Dec 10, 2019 22:36
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Boneworks 45 minute lunch break trip report: Janky but fun. Better sense of presence than most other VR games, but climbing and moving stuff around can be awkward.
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Dec 10, 2019 22:36
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Turin Turambar posted:As a new VR player, I have to say the 'sheen' of the novelty is wearing off fast, because what I'm noticing already is lots of VR games are really mediocre. The coolness of looking around and using your hands is barely enough to offset how underwhelming or full problems are some of the 'fist gen' VR games. I can't be surprised that some Rift/Vive owners started to having their device getting dust for months. This is kinda word salad to a certain extent but the reason why HMDs gathered dust is that for the last couple years there weren't many games. That's... different now and no longer applies. I gotta disagree strongly on everything you said. I think you're being way way too definitive. If you don't find motion controls compelling, sorry, different strokes for different folks. But if you think that being able to shoot guns properly instead of using a mouse is purely a novelty that wears off fast.... hahaha, I'm sorry but gently caress no. I've put around 100 hours in Payday 2 VR now. If you think that you're playing the wrong VR games or just your personal tastes don't line up with it, but VR is not a novelty. No, sorry. Wrong. Flat wrong. Turin Turambar posted:The good news is that they aren't mediocre because it's somehow inherent to VR, they are mediocre in non-VR related areas, because low budgets, short dev times and/or bad devs. And now you basically contradict yourself? If you don't like indie games, play the VR games that are AAA and not indie. Caveat Emptor. Do some market research? There's several VR games that aren't small and short indie titles so... play those, dude. Turin Turambar posted:Thanks god this is me going back to already released games, I expect better from here onwards. Are you dictating over a phone or having a stroke?
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Dec 10, 2019 22:43
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I'm sleep deprived but I'm gonna buy a Boneworks and I'll give a trip report and record some footage.
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Dec 10, 2019 22:44
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Turin Turambar posted:Well, I'm not expecting VR games to be AAA like The Last of US 2 or Cyberpunk. I know HL Alyx will be more the exception, no the rule, for a number of years. Indie graphics are fine, as games of 6-7 hours. But from a game design viewpoint, some VR games are very undercooked. Welcome to VR and please stop jumping to conclusions. Some flatscreen games are very undercooked.
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Dec 10, 2019 22:46
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Jesus christ zaphod
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Dec 10, 2019 22:48
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"x but in VR" is boring. The new aspects introduced that are unique to VR are what can be interesting. Half the time in the shooting games shooting the gun is less fun than trying to do fast reloads or switching to a grenade and trying to throw it quickly and accurately. It's hard to think of new stuff and broadly the more successful things are the ones that are doing new stuff. But the reason I think Pavlov is boring isn't that it's poorly made or janky or whatever (I'm not trying to snipe I'm not making any comment about it's quality at all here), it's that I'm bored of Counterstrike. I got bored of Counterstrike ten years ago.
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Dec 10, 2019 22:48
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Zaphod42 posted:Welcome to VR and please stop jumping to conclusions. Jesus dude he's just saying VR isn't a magic wand that makes things fun and it's not. Once the novelty wears off, and it does wear off, it needs to stand on its own merits and a ton of stuff right now just doesn't.
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Dec 10, 2019 22:50
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Lemming posted:Jesus dude he's just saying VR isn't a magic wand that makes things fun and it's not. Once the novelty wears off, and it does wear off, it needs to stand on its own merits and a ton of stuff right now just doesn't. Jesus dude I get that and responded to it in my previous post.
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Dec 10, 2019 22:50
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-LllLnXlNw I guess it's mild spoilers for items
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Dec 10, 2019 22:51
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I'm still using Vive wands. Boneworks reaaaalllly makes me want to get my hands on (in?) some index controllers.
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Dec 10, 2019 22:52
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Zaphod42 posted:Welcome to VR and please stop jumping to conclusions.
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Dec 10, 2019 22:57
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Cicero posted:abrasive https://tenor.com/INE3.gif
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Dec 10, 2019 23:04
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"Until You Fall" is still great and I've played a few hours already. Very arcade-y and awesome, it's super fun mastering the combat and dealing with things like multiple enemies and projectiles. And the whole "x but in VR" thing CAN be boring, but "Superhot, but in VR" is loving amazing fun.
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Dec 10, 2019 23:09
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Zaphod42 posted:... But if you think that being able to shoot guns properly instead of using a mouse is purely a novelty that wears off fast.... hahaha, I'm sorry but gently caress no. What guns do you use? I did about 25 hours of Payday 2 but stuck with dual pistols mostly. I find 2 handed aiming tedious when not using a stock, and I find using a stock pretty tedious as well. I'm sure if I played onward with it's slower gameplay I'd be ok with a stock. VR is best when it does things no other genre can like Space Pirate Trainer, Blasters of the Universe with high quality aim and dodge required.
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Dec 10, 2019 23:15
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Cicero posted:You can get across this sentiment without coming across as an abrasive dick. Okay next time I will avoid the mean words "welcome" and "please"  Stick100 posted:What guns do you use? I did about 25 hours of Payday 2 but stuck with dual pistols mostly. I find 2 handed aiming tedious when not using a stock, and I find using a stock pretty tedious as well. Dual pistols are my favs because they work so well in VR (and didn't work well on flatscreen) with a sawed-off shotgun to deal with shields and keep dodge rating high. I have a dual pistol "dante" build where I can run fast in light armor, dodge, and get all the pistol bonus damage skills so I can do even high difficulties pretty reasonably. Dodge build is a little funky in VR but still works. But everything is pretty fun, I dance around different builds. Sniper rifles feel real cool in VR with the scope, but aren't very practical at ALL, even being able to one-shot dozers isn't worth it for how slow you are. Machineguns and shotguns are pretty great times too though, I like variety. But mostly dual pistols yeah. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Dec 10, 2019 |
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Dec 10, 2019 23:17
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Better idea: avoid this thread 
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Dec 10, 2019 23:26
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Nemesis Of Moles posted:Jesus christ zaphod Yeah, basically this. I didn't write a dissertation with the definitive reality of VR. Just some quick impressions and few thoughts and I had. Hell, it isn't even MY definitive opinion on VR. There are still many VR games I haven't played and I totally reserve the right to evolve my thoughts as I play more games. Oh, by the way, I find funny Job Simulator has a much better throwing mechanics than Superhot.
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Dec 10, 2019 23:28
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scuz posted:And the whole "x but in VR" thing CAN be boring, but "Superhot, but in VR" is loving amazing fun. Definitely depends on the game. Resident Evil 7 VR was a literal game changer and one of my favorite game experiences. I mean holy poo poo, the first time you walk into that dark, busted rear end house...
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Dec 10, 2019 23:37
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SCheeseman posted:I'm still using Vive wands. Boneworks reaaaalllly makes me want to get my hands on (in?) some index controllers. Agreed, Boneworks is frustrating as hell with the wands but I'm looking forward to trying it again with some other controllers.
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Dec 10, 2019 23:49
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Turin Turambar posted:Oh, by the way, I find funny Job Simulator has a much better throwing mechanics than Superhot. Moondust: Knuckles Tech Demo has by far the best throwing implementation I've seen yet. It's still difficult to throw straight but objects tend to leave my hand when I expect them to. It's unlisted from Steam but you can download it via that link. Rolo posted:Definitely depends on the game. Resident Evil 7 VR was a literal game changer and one of my favorite game experiences. I mean holy poo poo, the first time you walk into that dark, busted rear end house... I'd love to be able to play it some day with the copy I already own  Can anybody comment on how RE7 is with vorpX at this point? Is it worthwhile or jank city?
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Dec 10, 2019 23:57
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Played about three hours of Boneworks over Oculus Link. The tutorial section is really well done but then the first 'real' level is a bit of a rude awakening. I feel like I'm maybe missing something in terms of handling things because I'm at a bit where (I assume) I'm meant to stack boxes to stop something moving and it just feels really sloppy. I think the 'three hours' after a long work day says enough about how compelling the idea is, though! I definitely want to try it on a friend's Index setup; the presence is excellent. The floppy player body physics remind me of Blade and Sorcery except Boneworks doesn't make me feel like an insane, psychopathic murderer after playing it. Also no comedy pumping arms for running.
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Dec 10, 2019 23:58
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Boneworks is the poo poo. Janky at times, for sure, but boy is it fun to dick around in it and have everything more or less react as you'd expect. Sure you can grab the locker handle to open it, but you can also just thread a finger in and move your hand. Or use the pointy end of a hammer to hook it and open it that way. Or... The only thing I find a bit awkward is the climbing, or rather the pull yourself up a ledge part. Sometimes it works, other times it just refuses to put your legs on the surface (yes, even with them "tucked in" properly). But it's amazing how natural everything starts to feel after an hour or so. No need to fish for interaction points, when you can just smack a door open or push a box down. That said, you sure need a solid set of VR legs, or you won't like the smooth locomotion everywhere. Thankfully a 100+ hours of H3VR T&H got me used to that. One other thing, did anyone else try firing a two handed gun (smg, rifle) yet? For me aiming works fine-ish for a time, but then randomly my virtual hands would spaz out / float around after shooting a little. Not talking about the gun getting slightly harder to control on full auto, but the hands really obviously glitching away in an unintended fashion.
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Dec 10, 2019 23:58
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SirViver posted:Boneworks is the poo poo. Getting the tokyo drift on your index controllers? I get that on 2 light houses when im close to my face. Lights + Reflections are killing me there (I get it on wands too, so its not controllers thankfully). Third lighthouse clears it up mostly. I could just not have water bottles or a redbull can on my desk, or you know, not have a glass pc case but meh. But for me, reflections are causing most of that. WITH THAT SAID! I hear theres issues with some peoples controllers and having to RMA them due to drift?
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Dec 11, 2019 00:01
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uiruki posted:Played about three hours of Boneworks over Oculus Link. The tutorial section is really well done but then the first 'real' level is a bit of a rude awakening. I feel like I'm maybe missing something in terms of handling things because I'm at a bit where (I assume) I'm meant to stack boxes to stop something moving and it just feels really sloppy. That could be uncanny valley of VR? As you are closer to real life interactions in terms of faithfulness, your brain notice more all the imperfections that remain?
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Dec 11, 2019 00:09
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EbolaIvory posted:Getting the tokyo drift on your index controllers? It's really weird, though yes, I have a third lighthouse reserved - the controllers really need to see at least two lighthouses to have accurate tracking for gun aiming purposes. That said, I don't really have comparable problems in H3VR, and the hands also track fine if I hold them in the same position without grabbing the gun. Don't think it's room reflections, or at least I'd expect the behavior to change when I physically turn around. Frunk cover is off too. Haven't heard about any hardware related drifting issues on controllers (other than joystick drift), though considering it happens on both controllers and my left one is a very recent RMA one, I doubt there's anything inherently wrong there. Oh well, I'll do some further testing tomorrow.
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Dec 11, 2019 00:16
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quote != edit
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Dec 11, 2019 00:17
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Turin Turambar posted:That could be uncanny valley of VR? As you are closer to real life interactions in terms of faithfulness, your brain notice more all the imperfections that remain? I think the big thing is that there's no way (yet) for them to properly communicate the level of strain on your virtual wrists and arms when interacting with really heavy objects. With things like big hammers or swords the floppiness does a decent job of letting you know that you need a second arm to wield it effectively, and I noticed that it properly simulates the moment of whatever you're waving about so holding even a hand axe by the very end of the handle is a little too much for your virtual arm. When you're dragging around these big boxes if you move too fast your arms can end up spinning around uncontrollably as the box swings around you, and when trying to move that object precisely it's difficult in a way which I can't recall seeing in another game because you're really manhandling it around. I suspect that learning and improving my technique will pay off; these are all new motions, things like pulling myself up onto a ledge 'properly' isn't something I've done before. Unlike Stormland I can't just fling myself ten feet into the air to get to where I need to (as a side note, the movement in that game is super fun). It does feel quite cutting edge, even though it's a bit rough. I suspect I'll be thinking about it a lot during work tomorrow. It's a big step up from Tumble VR on PS4 which was the first game to properly convince me that VR brings its own qualities to games which raise it above what came before on a TV or monitor.
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Dec 11, 2019 00:26
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Anyone else experiencing a lot of showstopping bugs in Boneworks? I just hopped in it to check it out really quick, and got stuck in a neverending loading screen when it tried to load the museum. Then, when I got to the area with the barbell and the big colorful blocks I tried to climb one of the blocks and the game dropped back to the empty SteamVR environment, and then kept glitching back to the game frozen in place and half transparent. I'm enjoying it when it works, but I seemingly can't go more than ten minutes without it breaking.
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Dec 11, 2019 00:32
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