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tuyop posted:"Inconclusive" Drawing from my Physics background ... Is there any measurement of the rate of increase in methane being released from this area?
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Dec 10, 2019 23:34
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VictualSquid posted:So wait, you are saying the kids are currently not making it to school currently, but when you are arguing against public transportation we have to assume they all are happy with their cars? No. Again, read what I am saying, jesus. There are days when its so cold the busses literally will not start, or will stall while being driven. On those days you can either strand some kids - by and large of lower socioeconomic status - at home while the kids with families with cars can still go, thus enlarging the achievement gap between kids of different socioeconomic status because poor kids miss more days due to cold, or you can just say 'everyone gets the day off and we'll make it up at the end of the year.' A certain number of 'snow days' (which are increasingly becoming cold days because we get more of those than we do snow) are built into the calendars in schools in mountain areas and the Midwest. Its a known phenomenon. But its getting kind of ridiculous. Records are being broken. They've closed schools before for cold as far back as 1977 because kids who walked were getting frostbite but not with this frequency. I don't think you in warmer climates realize how dangerous extreme cold can be. Kids because they're smaller tend to be more susceptible to the cold, and a lot of schools have trailers and outbuildings to handle overcrowding, which means kids and teachers have to go out into the cold multiple times a day while switching classes, which tends to lead to them getting sick in addition to being dangerous. And no, this is not me arguing against public transportation, again. This is me stating that in areas where there is not public transportation and the weather can be dangerous, until you get that infrastructure to a point where its viable, you are still going to need another way to get around. Not everyone can 'just bike or walk or take public transportation.'
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Dec 10, 2019 23:42
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Ontario cancelled the last wind farm under construction, will now pay to tear it down too I'm taking bets on when they start dynamiting the built and functional stations at any cost, just to own the libs, as is the way of regressives.
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Dec 10, 2019 23:44
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Oracle posted:No. Again, read what I am saying, jesus. There are days when its so cold the busses literally will not start, or will stall while being driven. On those days you can either strand some kids - by and large of lower socioeconomic status - at home while the kids with families with cars can still go, thus enlarging the achievement gap between kids of different socioeconomic status because poor kids miss more days due to cold, or you can just say 'everyone gets the day off and we'll make it up at the end of the year.' A certain number of 'snow days' (which are increasingly becoming cold days because we get more of those than we do snow) are built into the calendars in schools in mountain areas and the Midwest. Its a known phenomenon. But its getting kind of ridiculous. Records are being broken. They've closed schools before for cold as far back as 1977 because kids who walked were getting frostbite but not with this frequency. I don't think you in warmer climates realize how dangerous extreme cold can be. Kids because they're smaller tend to be more susceptible to the cold, and a lot of schools have trailers and outbuildings to handle overcrowding, which means kids and teachers have to go out into the cold multiple times a day while switching classes, which tends to lead to them getting sick in addition to being dangerous. What are you suggesting instead?
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Dec 10, 2019 23:54
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A couple of years ago there were a slew of articles about a geoengineering plan intended to reverse arctic sea ice loss using a massive array of windmills. The idea was to use the windmills to pump sea water to the ice surface in winter to freeze, making the ice thicker and better able to survive the summer months. Here's a cute graphic summarizing the concept: Unfortunately somebody actually checked the effects of such a system with a climate model and found that aside from being wildly impractical, the idea wouldn't really mitigate climate change significantly: quote:Can Arctic ‘ice management’ combat climate change? It's a little surprising that retaining the sea ice for an additional few decades would have such a minor impact on overall global warming (the article quotes 0.02K). However it's more evidence that geoengineering is a likely dead end in case people think we'll somehow innovate our way out of climate change's consequences. Rime posted:Ontario cancelled the last wind farm under construction, will now pay to tear it down too
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Dec 11, 2019 00:11
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VideoGameVet posted:How real is this possibility? Ugh. Is there like, a plan B for methane? Something that we could spray in the air that would catalyze its reaction with oxygen?
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Dec 11, 2019 00:12
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VideoGameVet posted:Drawing from my Physics background ... Measurements are not sufficiently widespread enough to tell us the extent of methane emissions everywhere, let alone the rate of increase. I think the issue is that these areas are literally millions of square kilometres of increasingly difficult to navigate terrain (because of permafrost collapse, you see) and the monitoring stations that get set up at great expense end up destroyed by collapsing permafrost and unpredictable extreme weather events. Hence, inconclusive. But the measurements we do have don’t look good!  Edit: oh god there’s more!   
tuyop fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Dec 11, 2019 |
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Dec 11, 2019 01:06
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Arglebargle III posted:Ugh. Haha what are you talking about? If there was something we could do to magically remove greenhouse gases from the atmosphere you'd have heard of it by now.
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Dec 11, 2019 01:14
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tuyop posted:Measurements are not sufficiently widespread enough to tell us the extent of methane emissions everywhere, let alone the rate of increase. I think the issue is that these areas are literally millions of square kilometres of increasingly difficult to navigate terrain (because of permafrost collapse, you see) and the monitoring stations that get set up at great expense end up destroyed by collapsing permafrost and unpredictable extreme weather events. Hence, inconclusive. Thank you. The Barrow Graph is particularly worrisome since that appears to show not just an increase but an acceleration in the rate. drat.
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Dec 11, 2019 01:24
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Classon Ave. Robot posted:Haha what are you talking about? If there was something we could do to magically remove greenhouse gases from the atmosphere you'd have heard of it by now. Methane is special because it's not particularly stable in an environment with lots of UV light and free oxygen. ... right? Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 03:52 on Dec 11, 2019 |
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Dec 11, 2019 01:47
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Arglebargle III posted:Methane is special because it's not particularly stable in an environment with lots of UV light and free oxygen.  Presumably it has the same problem as other aerosol-based geoengineering methods, even if it works the full impacts are likely not well understood and the risk of unintended side-effects are high. Alternatively here's a post about a Nature comment arguing for research into non-aerosol based atmospheric methane capture: Nocturtle posted:Regarding imaginary negative emission systems, a semi-recent Nature comment made the point that capturing atmospheric methane makes more sense than carbon-dioxide. Seriously discussing negative emissions is silly when we're still pumping greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, but I was curious about the required scales for such a direct-air capture system.
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Dec 11, 2019 04:54
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VideoGameVet posted:Drawing from my Physics background ... We do have stations measuring methane in Alaska. They are elevated recently but the data aren't QCed yet and they aren't completely out of line yet. The study authors of ESAS gas hydrate literature state that there is "exponential uncertainty" on the size of future releases. Exciting!
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Dec 11, 2019 05:17
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Ras Het posted:Yeah I mean I think a big point about climate adaptation has to be that we shouldn't go for the obvious, nihilistic answer. If Finland offers a misleading example, ask what people in Siberia do They have got furs
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Dec 11, 2019 07:34
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Notorious R.I.M. posted:We do have stations measuring methane in Alaska. They are elevated recently but the data aren't QCed yet and they aren't completely out of line yet. I'll sleep easier knowing this.
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Dec 11, 2019 17:56
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Greta Thunberg Is the Youngest TIME Person of the Year Ever. https://time.com/5746458/youngest-time-person-of-the-year/
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Dec 11, 2019 18:02
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VideoGameVet posted:Greta Thunberg Is the Youngest TIME Person of the Year Ever. Hitler and Stalin are trending on swedish twitter as a result of this. We are living in the worst timeline.
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Dec 11, 2019 18:10
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MiddleOne posted:Hitler and Stalin are trending on swedish twitter as a result of this. We are living in the worst timeline. i think i haven't posted this in this thread yet so: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FQa4KPQLbs there's autotranslated subtitles now, too
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Dec 11, 2019 18:30
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VideoGameVet posted:Greta Thunberg Is the Youngest TIME Person of the Year Ever. Cool. This is going to annoy so many people at the checkout. Wonder if the issue will be pulled from certain areas? I can hardly wait for Jason Kenney (Premier of Alberta) to add Time-Warner to his Enemies of Alberta list and start an inquiry. Truga posted:i think i haven't posted this in this thread yet so: Thread delivers.
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Dec 11, 2019 19:00
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Seeing this kind of reaction towards a teenager only means to me that she’s doing a great job.
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Dec 12, 2019 02:06
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Tab8715 posted:Seeing this kind of reaction towards a teenager only means to me that she’s doing a great job. Yeah, the future is saved. Hooray.
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Dec 12, 2019 04:17
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Tab8715 posted:Seeing this kind of reaction towards a teenager only means to me that she’s doing a great job. I think it more means people don’t like being reminded they’re going to die.
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Dec 12, 2019 05:05
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porfiria posted:I think it more means people don’t like being reminded they’re going to die. i mean people don't like learning they have stage four cancer, but they need to know that so they can come to terms with their imminent death
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Dec 12, 2019 08:10
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Watching an older friend dying of brain cancer - I don't think he has enough time left to come to come to terms with his imminent death. I'm pretty sure he will continue to plan to be out and about by spring when he dies in the next few weeks. The power of denial is impressive.
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Dec 12, 2019 16:35
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speaking of methane... https://twitter.com/nytclimate/status/1205086403564052480 none of our models factor this poo poo in because it's not reported
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Dec 12, 2019 17:17
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Godspeed thread
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Dec 12, 2019 20:25
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Thread tutting people for not just sitting around depressed that they're going to die and instead living life is peak this thread.
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Dec 12, 2019 21:05
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I'm living life to it's full potential actually. Probably, in fact, directly because of climate change and imminent death and decay. I gently caress on the daily my man. I'm smoking a cigarette right now. Life's sweet pleasures. I'm drunk as hell and I'm going to smoke a fat weed ASAP that's just how I live my life now
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Dec 12, 2019 21:09
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People say that I'm a calm person but I think that's just the calm of lmao nothing matters
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Dec 12, 2019 21:16
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I have an ask. The Climate Reality Project nixed my idea of using their online materials in "The Climate Trail" game as a reference document that would be available during play (much less a presentation). So where can I get a concise "climate dictionary" that would be suitable for a mobile app?
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Dec 12, 2019 21:18
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I have no alternative to offer, but I'm curious about their reasoning.
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Dec 12, 2019 21:32
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Sundae posted:I have no alternative to offer, but I'm curious about their reasoning. Just after the Weather Channel interview etc. Me: "I’m committed to incorporating a climate curriculum into the game and would like to work with you and The Climate Reality Project to make that happen." Them: "Unfortunately, this not a project we can support at this time." My Guess? Too dystopian for them, and I get that.
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Dec 12, 2019 21:35
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I'd say it's too optimistic if anything, I doubt Canada will still look that idyllic when the US is a hellscape.
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Dec 12, 2019 21:41
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VideoGameVet posted:I have an ask. Try reaching out to the Citizen's Climate Lobby
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Dec 12, 2019 22:01
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UnknownTarget posted:Try reaching out to the Citizen's Climate Lobby I've been to a meeting and even showed the game. Even though they tend to be more conservative, that might be a good lead.
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Dec 13, 2019 00:03
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Btw the UK just voted for hardcore climate deniers so uh electoralism sucks
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Dec 13, 2019 02:17
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Welp, I am officially having sadbrains for the first time in my life and it's entirely related to the anxiety and stress over the fact that, you know, the planet is going to be largely uninhabitable well and truly within my 10 year old daughter's life and quite possibly within the remaining time of my own. I really didn't want to have a kid initially because I vaguely thought that this was a possibility and who would choose to face this? My wife had very strong ideas in the other direction though, and I caved. How bad could it be, right? (It's so bad. If it was just me and my wife at stake that'd be awful but, you know, we've had a shot, we could take what comes as it does.) Paradoxically, for the very reason that your offspring become the most important thing in your life, I now deeply regret having brought my daughter into the world. I love her helplessly and it's destroying me. The other day she said "When I have kids..." and I had to go away and lose my poo poo entirely. And my wife understands, more or less, the situation... I've explained it as calmly as I can, I've linked many articles that lay it out in strict scientific terms rather than emotive ones - no, nothing is guaranteed but the balance of probability is that We're hosed Soon with the other option being that We're hosed Slightly Later. There is no option for non-hosed status here. And the world just keeps lurching rightward with absolute derision at the idea that there is a problem on the part of the average person. They don't care because they aren't aware and they aren't aware because it's a bit of an uncomfortable thought so they'd rather not think it, so nothing is being done and nothing will be until the literal panic starts. I have a counselling session on Monday and it's strongly possible that medication will be needed. Well, at least I might be numb to the horror. Won't fix the overarching situation but not feeling this constant sick dread will be nice, I guess.
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Dec 13, 2019 02:25
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Nocturtle posted:A couple of years ago there were a slew of articles about a geoengineering plan intended to reverse arctic sea ice loss using a massive array of windmills. The idea was to use the windmills to pump sea water to the ice surface in winter to freeze, making the ice thicker and better able to survive the summer months. Here's a cute graphic summarizing the concept: Speaking of pipe dreams, that dumb right wing meme is showing up again comparing Greta Thunberg (dumb girl just bitching) with that kid who was building that machine that was supposed to clean up the oceans or something (young man saving the world). Someone made an effortpost in USPol I believe about how his machine doesn't do poo poo, but I can't find anything. Does anyone have a link to why his idea is basically a non-starter? SadisTech posted:Kids Hi, friend. I have a six month old daughter and she is my everything, but I think about this a lot too. I think about the kind of life she will have and if she'll be able to have the amazing experiences I did. I try to spend less time on SA (definitely don't check it first thing in the morning) and try to focus all my energy on creating the best world possible for her, even if that world is just our house right now. Hopefully we can raise her to be a decent human being who is nice and helpful to other people. Dunno if this helps, I usually just Kramer into threads and post dumb poo poo, but know you're not alone. zenguitarman fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Dec 13, 2019 |
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Dec 13, 2019 02:27
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The machine worse than doesn't do poo poo, it chews up phytoplankton.
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Dec 13, 2019 12:29
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SadisTech posted:And the world just keeps lurching rightward with absolute derision at the idea that there is a problem on the part of the average person. They don't care because they aren't aware and they aren't aware because it's a bit of an uncomfortable thought so they'd rather not think it, so nothing is being done and nothing will be until the literal panic starts. Well it's a bit more than that because broadcast media and schools stay all the way the gently caress away from speaking on the climate crisis because it's been determined to be a "political issue".
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Dec 13, 2019 13:53
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Arglebargle III posted:Methane is special because it's not particularly stable in an environment with lots of UV light and free oxygen. In this guys article chain posted on twitter: Methane is: Over 100 year period: 20-25x worse than equivalent mass of co2 Over short term: 70x worse than co2 (seen it listed as 86x worse over 20 years) That is why a methane release of that size will kill us. The release being a nonlinear feedback loop with temp means that if there is a sudden release you'll see more consistent release of methane from the permafrost. Extremely rapid heating and long term outcomes they don't bother covering because once you get that high it doesn't matter anymore. The global warming can be combated and won, but not if this happens. (Scifi authors occasionally use this as a doomsday weapon used by aliens fighting us lol) Like this https://www.livescience.com/59705-oozing-methane-blasts-craters-in-siberian-tundra.html
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Dec 13, 2019 13:59
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