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Guy A. Person posted:The Drifter is specifically interesting because of its ability to adapt not only scenario to scenario but even potentially within a scenario depending on which of its active abilities it plays but also chooses to persist. So if you open a room and there's heavy retaliators, hey you're favoring ranged attacks now and let your melee boost lapse. What I really hope for a high level Necromancer card (possibly their level 9) is the ability to replay every Summon Skeleton card in their discard at once without losing the health. Just a massive Legion Of Death power, balanced by how weak those skellies will be by level 9
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Dec 9, 2019 23:57
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Guy A. Person posted:The Drifter is specifically interesting because of its ability to adapt not only scenario to scenario but even potentially within a scenario depending on which of its active abilities it plays but also chooses to persist. So if you open a room and there's heavy retaliators, hey you're favoring ranged attacks now and let your melee boost lapse. For Drifter I could predict some Bane abilities (eg time delayed damage), more abilities that debuff enemies, and probably some elemental consumption. Probably some ally buffs, too. Based on their level 1 stuff there's a clear preference for Ice and Fire elements and imaginative usage of time slowing down or speeding up, or possibly stopping entirely. So you could disable enemies (stun, disarm, or immobilize) by creating areas of slowness on their body, for example. Maybe some initiative manipulation too, since that's related to time
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Dec 10, 2019 00:03
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When you call a class "Geminate" you are just asking for people to misspell it
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Dec 10, 2019 00:27
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Doctor Spaceman posted:When you call a class "Geminate" you are just asking for people to misspell it Oh hell.
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Dec 10, 2019 00:59
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I will probably play the Geminate unless someone else in my group really wants it more. If so I'll probably try the Drifter. The Geminate looks hard to play but it also looks like the most powerful starting class by a lot. That thing can poo poo out damage all over the place. It's going to require a degree of finesse that I may not have but IDGAF I want to mulch things. I like the Drifter simply because of the recharge mechanic. He's otherwise a generic hit thing hard with big stick guy, but he looks like he can really abuse recharging persistent abilities to gain crazy xp and level up fast.
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Dec 10, 2019 01:08
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Elephant Ambush posted:I like the Drifter simply because of the recharge mechanic. He's otherwise a generic hit thing hard with big stick guy, but he looks like he can really abuse recharging persistent abilities to gain crazy xp and level up fast. Also, Triforce chat: Getting the +0 +element replacements early is good, but I think the perks that add 3 +0 +element are actively terrible. Flipping an element instead of a +1 is only good if 1) it's not an element you're already generating 2) it's an element you can actually use next turn 3) consuming it is gonna give you more than +1 damage. In two playthroughs of the campaign I didn't find that to be the case very often. I'm sure I've said this before almost verbatim but I totally agree that the modifier deck is the weakest part of the character, especially compared to the fun stuff other classes get to do. And the level 7 card is fun the first few times you cast it and then the worst thing in the game the longer you go without retiring. misguided rage fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Dec 10, 2019 |
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Dec 10, 2019 03:45
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God I fucking love Diablo 3 gold, it even paid for this shitty title
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misguided rage posted:I'm holding out on judgement until I see the rest of his cards, but the starting ones really aren't that interesting. I'm also concerned that he'll have the mindthief problem where all of his potentially more interesting effects are just too much worse than the generic +2 ones to be worth using. I think this will be mitigated somewhat by a couple factors. For one thing, you can have multiple of these affects out, and there are cards that specifically allow you to remove tokens on 2 or 3 persistent abilities (Relentless, Unbreakable and the bottom of Draining Arrows). Also at least in level 1 there's not a generic "+2 to all attacks" and it's split between ranged and melee, and I assume you want to probably lean into one instead of stacking both just for efficiency and adaptability.
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Dec 10, 2019 04:00
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Well I found out the +1 scenario level for hard is loving Hard. Scenario 17: The scenario started with the shamans casting bless and everything else doing a normal move, but we got it so we had two scouts immobilized, one scout dead, and our mindthief geared up to snipe a shaman. Not a bad first turn! Then the next two turns had the scouts use range so the immobilize was worthless, the shamans disarming me, the bears immobilizing us, and overall destroying us with what felt like every +1, +2, and 2x in the monster deck. Before my first rest I had 3 cards in the lost pile and one (1) hp. At that point though we were thinking, "Ah well that was an insanely busted first room. The next ones should probably ease up right?" ha ha. ha. lmfao. After we saw the second room we were all sure the scenario was lost, so our plan was to murder as many vermlings as possible out of spite and try getting to the chest so we didnt have to grab it on the second run. Somehow though we all coordinated incredibly efficient turns through the next three rooms, got the chest, and the game ended with our mindthief, the only player left on the board, using his last attack to kill off the last vermling scout. Our mindthief also got to use his loot 2 card as his last action and he ended up getting 73!! gold overall This game continues to own but holy poo poo is it draining when the monster cards hate you
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Dec 10, 2019 10:52
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Control Volume posted:Well I found out the +1 scenario level for hard is loving Hard. Scenario 17: The scenario started with the shamans casting bless and everything else doing a normal move, but we got it so we had two scouts immobilized, one scout dead, and our mindthief geared up to snipe a shaman. Not a bad first turn! Then the next two turns had the scouts use range so the immobilize was worthless, the shamans disarming me, the bears immobilizing us, and overall destroying us with what felt like every +1, +2, and 2x in the monster deck. Before my first rest I had 3 cards in the lost pile and one (1) hp. At that point though we were thinking, "Ah well that was an insanely busted first room. The next ones should probably ease up right?" ha ha. ha. lmfao. It's worse when you manage to hit 10 enemies in one attack and your attack cards hate you and leave everything alive with 1 hp. Then everything murders you in one turn.
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Dec 10, 2019 15:38
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Scenario 17 for some groups is the "oh we have a new character? let's run this one in casual mode" one, right?
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Dec 10, 2019 15:59
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Scenario 100 from forgotten circles is so annoying and feels so arbitrary. Yes the correct clues are there, but drat they're sign posted poorly and don't correspond well to the maps.
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Dec 10, 2019 16:39
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dwarf74 posted:Scenario 17 for some groups is the "oh we have a new character? let's run this one in casual mode" one, right? Yes
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Dec 10, 2019 16:39
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I love punching vermlings for their lunch money.
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Dec 10, 2019 17:51
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Spikes32 posted:Scenario 100 from forgotten circles is so annoying and feels so arbitrary. Yes the correct clues are there, but drat they're sign posted poorly and don't correspond well to the maps. (Forgotten Circles puzzles) We had the worst time with the puzzles in general. I don't know if it's a language thing or just that we're bad at figuring out the designer's intent, but I don't think we figured out any of the puzzles in the game on the first try (and some we didn't get at all). For that scenario in particular, we finished it by writing down which plate would send the room to which location, instead of using the puzzle's text. It turned into a game of guess and check, which was pretty unsatisfying.
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Dec 10, 2019 20:01
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The game certainly has balance issues no doubt about it. All of the Mindthief's skills being tuned around using just 1 of their many augments, for instance. Oozes, just in general. I take issue with Living Spirits having a "attack everything" ability with no conditions for use, which may as well have infinite range since they intrinsically have good range, movement, and flight.
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Dec 10, 2019 21:21
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Our mindthief tends to run the poison/muddle augment more than anything, but thats because his role is mostly infiltrating with invisibility and taking out high value targets, and his preferred way of doing that is stacking status effects on a target and nuking them. Thats not to say the minds weakness isnt used often though
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Dec 10, 2019 23:53
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QuarkJets posted:The game certainly has balance issues no doubt about it. All of the Mindthief's skills being tuned around using just 1 of their many augments, for instance. Oozes, just in general. I take issue with Living Spirits having a "attack everything" ability with no conditions for use, which may as well have infinite range since they intrinsically have good range, movement, and flight. It balances out because: 1 - they don't do a lot of damage to any individual target 2 - in order for them to hit the maximum number of targets they have to move as far forward as possible which always results in them being right in the middle of the group for a severe murdering that turn or the next
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Dec 10, 2019 23:56
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The poison(and the others) one is just straight worse than Mind's Weakness in 99.9% of situations, no matter what role you're trying to play. It's fine to use whatever you enjoy, but Mindthief is a pretty flawed design space because of the power of Mind's Weakness. A world where it didn't exist, your attacks were stronger baseline, and then you had to choose between the other augments would make a far more interesting class.
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Dec 10, 2019 23:58
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Once he hit level 4 he played both of them using the double-augment card but before that point, his role was killing squishy ranged assholes or high-hp targets that were worth setting up the status-ailment nuke. Minds weakness got swapped in if the cragheart/tinkerer dream team didnt clear anything clumped together, but half the time the room would be mostly dead anyways. If the enemies he was attacking were surviving I would say yeah, Minds Weakness is a vastly better choice, but when your targets are "things that die to a stiff breeze" or "boss", either the extra damage isnt necessary, or the combination of status ailments and ridiculous damage is better.
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Dec 11, 2019 00:18
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What does poison achieve that +2 damage doesn't?
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Dec 11, 2019 00:54
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There are only two cards that really care about afflictions, Perverse Edge and Submissive Affliction. Perverse Edge is mostly used for the bottom half because it's insane, but the top half you're only slightly better off using poison vs just +2 damage and it's a loss card. Submissive Affliction is equal for using poison vs +2, so why bother with poison. Also the double augment is largely a trap, the amount of actions and cards required to set it up is almost never worth doing. Mindthief has a lot of amazing non-augment cards and actions to do every turn, and nothing compares to Mind's Weakness. Play how you want but don't try to say it's equal. You can try to justify it by poisoning a boss or maybe the stun augment if your party generates a ton of frost. But +2 damage is useful just about every turn, it's not situational, and that's why everyone says nothing else is worth using. You can put up Mind's Weakness at the start of every rest and never worry that you don't have something not useful for your next attack. Cinara fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Dec 11, 2019 |
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Dec 11, 2019 01:20
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Setting up perverse edge, mostly. Cragheart and tinkerer can get an immobilize and stun up as well to make it a 12 damage attack. Minds weakness gets trotted out once this nuke is gone but its typically used at the end of the scenario.
Control Volume fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Dec 11, 2019 |
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Dec 11, 2019 01:22
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So one very important thing to note with both of those attacks, applying poison and muddle with the attack itself do not allow the attack to benefit from them. You would have to apply them on the previous turn. This means you also do not get the +1 damage from the poison on that attack.
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Dec 11, 2019 01:31
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Yeah? Mindthief goes slow, plays the poison/muddle augment and applies it with the augment attack, cragheart and tinkerer stack whatever status effects they can, then the mindthief hits like a truck using high initiative the next turn. Its incredibly easy to set up dude e: We are kind of leaning towards the double augment being bad though, it didnt feel like minds weakness really got value out of the debuffs, and having another +2 attack on perverse edge is nice but really not worth losing another card over. Also the other augment that our mindthief occasionally slots in is the heal one for retaliate-heavy scenarios and that synergizes with absolutely nothing e2: Just saw what one of the level 6 cards is for mindthief lmfao. Well I guess I cede my point Control Volume fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Dec 11, 2019 |
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Dec 11, 2019 01:34
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Jabor posted:What does poison achieve that +2 damage doesn't? IANAMT, but if all your allies combined are attacking twice as often as you are alone then poison does more damage. Also it prevents heals.
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Dec 11, 2019 03:28
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Poison definitely scales better if you have 3-4 players, who can all presumably benefit from the +1 damage. I don't know if that makes it strictly better than +2 damage augment, since killing things fast is best.
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Dec 11, 2019 03:52
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one thing to keep in mind is that a lot of online gloomhaven charOp is (perhaps overly) concerned with optimization in a vacuum - most guides are explicitly not about what you synergize with or how to synergize. So most advice about character builds is oriented towards their strongest personal single damage output OR filling in to exactly the role that the class is obviously designed for (tank for brute or support for tinker, to name some basic classes.) IT's a little weird that its like that because gloomhaven is very different from like diablo ii or something where you're always going to be playing with the same people more or less, but I think the threat of spoiling unrelated classes in a given class guide is the biggest driver of that problem. You can't really say X item or Y class goes great with Z because of the threat of spoilers. Also online gloomhaven charop has a weird and specific grudge against summons and elements. Ignore that tbh, they're mostly wrong about the relative worth of both summons and the relative ease of planning element use.
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Dec 11, 2019 04:03
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Impermanent posted:Also online gloomhaven charop has a weird and specific grudge against summons and elements. Ignore that tbh, they're mostly wrong about the relative worth of both summons and the relative ease of planning element use. They similarly say retaliate sucks despite the existence of builds that use retaliate to absolutely loving shred enemies
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Dec 11, 2019 04:09
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Control Volume posted:Yeah? Mindthief goes slow, plays the poison/muddle augment and applies it with the augment attack, cragheart and tinkerer stack whatever status effects they can, then the mindthief hits like a truck using high initiative the next turn. Its incredibly easy to set up dude Both of the Mindthief level 6 cards are literally unironically the best cards they have access to all the way through level 9. Level 6 is when you become a chainsaw.
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Dec 11, 2019 04:15
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Guy A. Person posted:They similarly say retaliate sucks despite the existence of builds that use retaliate to absolutely loving shred enemies ah yes thank you i was sitting here thinking "There's a third thing they hate for some reason" but I couldn't remember what it was.
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Dec 11, 2019 04:23
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Impermanent posted:Also online gloomhaven charop has a weird and specific grudge against summons and elements. Ignore that tbh, they're mostly wrong about the relative worth of both summons and the relative ease of planning element use. Ugh element generation! Dont get me started on how you have to play awful cards like massive boulder (with backup ammunition) to get earth
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Dec 11, 2019 04:49
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This is the first I have heard of element hate. That's pretty funny. I understand the arguments about retaliate and summons but smart players with good cooperative groups of non-assholes can make both of those things good. Lots of testimonials for both itt.
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Dec 11, 2019 04:58
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Is there anywhere online where I can look at the ability cards without having to read some goober's guide
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Dec 11, 2019 04:58
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CommonShore posted:Is there anywhere online where I can look at the ability cards without having to read some goober's guide https://github.com/any2cards/gloomhaven/tree/master/images This has images of all the cards, including character ability cards. The character names are all abbreviated to avoid spoilers (so Cragheart is CH, for example) but still be careful!
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Dec 11, 2019 05:15
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i'm sure it's been said but unless you're playing on max difficulty as long as you try to create some kind of synergy with your hand of cards and the group you're playing with you'll be fine.
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Dec 11, 2019 09:36
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I just retired Two Minis I'm gonna really miss my bear friend and unlocked Concentric Circles. Are these classes different enough that it warrants play immediately, or are they as similar as they first appear? Our party is Lightning Bolts, Sun, Music Note (and will be for at least 5 more missions); and the only unlocked/new characters we have available are Mindthief and Brute. So thoughts on my situation and character choice are very welcome (my only other character was a Cragheart, for the record).
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Dec 11, 2019 11:21
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Death of Rats posted:I just retired Two Minis I'm gonna really miss my bear friend and unlocked Concentric Circles. Are these classes different enough that it warrants play immediately, or are they as similar as they first appear? Two minis v. circles Circles has many weak summons that you use as ablative armour or for one or two good attacks. A lot of the strategy is when and how you summon and then recover your cards. The summoner herself also plays a very active role, with good mobility, decent attacks and a reasonable health pool. The beast tyrant relies heavily on the bear, depending on your build. All your punch is in one big package and when it hits, it hits hard. You have less issues with hand size and are more worried about health management, in my experience.
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Dec 11, 2019 12:07
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I retired my cragheart by selling all my items and getting "augments" (cant apply them yet because I dont have any drat stickers!! but I recorded them on the sheet and they shall be duly applied and got to unlock circles! This is extremely not my style of class, but its also fun in a really weird and stupid way so Im definitely going to keep playing it.
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Dec 11, 2019 12:30
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Dreylad posted:i'm sure it's been said but unless you're playing on max difficulty as long as you try to create some kind of synergy with your hand of cards and the group you're playing with you'll be fine.  More or less, if you're playing at +0 or +1 it probably doesn't matter what cards you take, or what class you're using. The guides are written by and for folks playing on, like, super hell +3 or +4 difficulty. Like starting a new campaign and playing Black Barrow at Level 5.
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Dec 11, 2019 13:30
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Guy A. Person posted:They similarly say retaliate sucks despite the existence of builds that use retaliate to absolutely loving shred enemies I think the issue with summons and retaliate isn't that they're irrevocably bad, it's that summon and retaliate cards in classes that aren't built around them tend to be weak cards. A lot of retaliate cards on classes like Cragheart or Angry Face require awkward setup, precise timing and coordination with allies, all just to trade some incoming damage for a small amount of true damage; it's so rarely worth it over using a card that does something the class specializes in. Similarly it's easy for a lot of one-off summons to be a loss card that does nothing but give you XP, as the summon dies immediately or never catches up with the party - and even when they do work, they're maybe the equivalent of Attack 3 Heal 3. That doesn't make the mechanics inherently terrible, there are absolutely classes and builds that can push them hard; they're just undertuned in a lot of classes, probably because they have the potential to be so powerful. I think Frosthaven's apparent willingness to make more non-loss summons - not just on the Necromancer - will help the mechanic a lot, and opinion on it will probably go up. Hopefully we can all agree that trap creation really is garbage, though.
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Dec 11, 2019 15:18
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