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sexpig by night posted:there's a not minor amount of weight in the idea that the senate knows they can't actually force Schiff or the whistle-blower or whatever to show up and a redo of the house witnesses would only be bad for them, so it's best to cut the cord asap and just 'exonerate' Trump so they can spend 2020 on full damage control mode. pretty much. mitch wants to just end this quick and let trump flail it out after. trump wants a big dumb circus with the only defense being he did nothing wrong and is perfect.
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Dec 11, 2019 17:59
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eke out posted:this is unironically the optimal scenario for the left Well, true optimal would be Trump getting booted. But this scenario only helps them in 2020.
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Dec 11, 2019 18:00
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eke out posted:this is unironically the optimal scenario for the left Which is precisely why the turtle isn't going to call any witnesses.
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Dec 11, 2019 18:01
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DandyLion posted:Which is precisely why the turtle isn't going to call any witnesses. The House will call more than enough. I am kind of hoping they get SDNY to offer Parnas immunity in exchange for testimony.
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Dec 11, 2019 18:03
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SchrodingersCat posted:Well, true optimal would be Trump getting booted. Totally a guess but it's probably a wash. They lose 5-10 million angry Chuds who refuse to vote for a generic republican. But the marginal anti trump vote for if he's still in office probably offsets this
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Dec 11, 2019 18:07
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DandyLion posted:Which is precisely why the turtle isn't going to call any witnesses. again: he does not have 51 votes for this plan you say is happening anyone talking about what McConnell will do that suggests something that will require a rule change should explain how they get to 51
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Dec 11, 2019 18:08
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eke out posted:again: he does not have 51 votes for this plan you say is happening and yet mysteriously republicans fall in line to confirm a rapist to the supreme court. It's not out of the realm of possibility that McConnell whips them into shape
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Dec 11, 2019 18:10
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Does the VP get to break ties in Impeachment procedural votes? I’d assume so, so he only really needs 50, though that probably looks way too bad for him to allow it to happen.
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Dec 11, 2019 18:11
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oxsnard posted:and yet mysteriously republicans fall in line to confirm a rapist to the supreme court. It's not out of the realm of possibility that McConnell whips them into shape your apples to oranges comparison is completely useless and unhelpful confirming a conservative justice could not be any more different than taking a vote solely to change the rules to help reduce trump's embarrassment in january of election year republicans literally admit they don't have the votes for this
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Dec 11, 2019 18:12
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Ethiser posted:Does the VP get to break ties in Impeachment procedural votes? I’d assume so, so he only really needs 50, though that probably looks way too bad for him to allow it to happen. if this was a rules vote prior to impeachment proceedings, i believe the answer is yes if you mean for any vote whatsoever during the trial, the answer is for-sure no
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Dec 11, 2019 18:13
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Ethiser posted:Does the VP get to break ties in Impeachment procedural votes? I’d assume so, so he only really needs 50, though that probably looks way too bad for him to allow it to happen. I think the masks are off the decorum is done and this is going to be a naked, smirking, 'what are you gonna do about it' power grab by McConnell. They will make the trial a sham circus, claim they aren't going to dignify it by calling witnesses to defend a president that's done nothing that necessitates defending, sit there and muddy the waters with all the usual bloviating then vote to acquit.
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Dec 11, 2019 18:13
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eke out posted:your apples to oranges comparison is completely useless and unhelpful It appears abundantly clear that not a single republican in the house will vote for impeachment. I think your belief is correct and likely, but I wouldn't absolutely rule out republicans eventually coming out in lockstep on this
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Dec 11, 2019 18:15
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Oracle posted:I think the masks are off the decorum is done and this is going to be a naked, smirking, 'what are you gonna do about it' power grab by McConnell. They will make the trial a sham circus, claim they aren't going to dignify it by calling witnesses to defend a president that's done nothing that necessitates defending, sit there and muddy the waters with all the usual bloviating then vote to acquit. we're going to have a real trial because like three to four purple state republicans are afraid if they were able to do what you suggest, they would simply vote to dismiss both articles prior to a trial and we wouldn't even bother, that would be the actual power grab. also, that's why there aren't additional articles, because they'd just be dismissed because republicans believe there are currently only political consequences for the ukraine/obstruction stuff
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Dec 11, 2019 18:16
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Here i will pull a few paragraphs from what appears to be a legitimate source https://www.lawfareblog.com/imagining-senate-trial-reading-senate-rules-impeachment-litigation quote:The bluntest means of limiting the record would be for Republicans simply to vote to limit the evidence to the existing record. It’s the Senate’s prerogative under Rule 6 to “make all lawful orders, rules, and regulations which it may deem essential or conducive to the ends of justice.” So imagine a motion to simply conduct arguments based on the established House record. Assuming that Chief Justice Roberts does not rule on the question, which he has discretion to do under Rule 7, the question would be put to the Senate either for a simple majority vote or for a supermajority vote, depending on whether Roberts regarded the motion as reinterpreting the Senate rules on witnesses or fundamentally changing them. There is no prospect of Republicans managing a supermajority for such a motion, but it’s not inconceivable that they could muster 51 votes for it. Tl;dr Roberts likely has a say in whether 51 or 67 is needed to disallow any new info/witnesses, but 51 would still be needed to call a witness. Roberts would likely cast a tie breaking vote. This is I presume why for Clinton they hashed out who witnesses would be and the exact rules for testimony ahead of time so most of this poo poo was agreed to 100-0 Crazyweasel fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Dec 11, 2019 |
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Dec 11, 2019 18:17
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oxsnard posted:and yet mysteriously republicans fall in line to confirm a rapist to the supreme court. It's not out of the realm of possibility that McConnell whips them into shape because thats more important than saving the albatross around their necks that is the president. enough purple state senators know they are done if they make the wrong move. and the wrong move is basically any move.
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Dec 11, 2019 18:17
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just like, search for evilweasel's several extensive posts about how every incentive the party has right now is for the trial to look legitimate and then result in acquittal, because those posts were and are still completely correct the only way this doesn't hurt them (ie: everyone that isn't trump) is if there's the appearance of impartiality followed by trump getting off. and they are totally capable of doing this and it's very obviously their plan! ps: out of literally everyone involved, John Roberts has the most incentives to make this look impartial, because he's going to lose his majority if he fails eke out fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Dec 11, 2019 |
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Dec 11, 2019 18:18
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I agree with that entirely, I just refuse to rule out the possibility that Republicans won't just perform an about face on this issue
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Dec 11, 2019 18:21
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Dapper_Swindler posted:because thats more important than saving the albatross around their necks that is the president. enough purple state senators know they are done if they make the wrong move. and the wrong move is basically any move. I think they already know they're done given 2018 and that enthusiasm is only growing for 2020. They're gonna fall on their Republican swords and retire to the private sector to soak up the adulation and cash of people like Adelson.
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Dec 11, 2019 18:22
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Trump is going to poo poo on anything McConnel does that isn’t a reality TV circus with Trump at the center of it.
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Dec 11, 2019 18:28
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Numlock posted:Trump is going to poo poo on anything McConnel does that isn’t a reality TV circus with Trump at the center of it. this. i feel like trump will try to force Mitchs hand and make it a big circus where he gets his big dumb show trial against all his enemies and poo poo. at the very least his lawyers will try to call them as witnesses.
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Dec 11, 2019 18:31
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yeah this is a key point: trump's interests aren't aligned with the republican party's, except in the "get acquitted at the end" part it seems incredibly likely he horribly fucks up their attempts to minimize the harm it does them
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Dec 11, 2019 18:33
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eke out posted:yeah this is a key point: trump's interests aren't aligned with the republican party's, except in the "get acquitted at the end" part yep. trump will threaten to purge mitch(and probably still will) if he doesn't let the trial go his way and there are enough broken lickspittles in the senate to push the vote in trumps favor for that kind of trial.
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Dec 11, 2019 18:35
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i take great solace in the fact that while some of them like mcconnell are absolutely cunning, republicans in washington are far dumber than they ever have been. I posted this yesterday, but the smartest thing the republicans could do to both minimize damage in 2020 and boost chances for survival going forward is boot out trump and get Nikki Haley in there as VP. They could force Pence to step down in 2021 since he's probably up to his neck in crimes. Haley could legitimately win in 2020
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Dec 11, 2019 18:36
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Oracle posted:I think they already know they're done given 2018 and that enthusiasm is only growing for 2020. They're gonna fall on their Republican swords and retire to the private sector to soak up the adulation and cash of people like Adelson. probably, but i think many are delusional enough to believe their own bullshit and have thanos level egotism/monster qualities to match. they are so used to their base that they think the whole country is like their base.
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Dec 11, 2019 18:38
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Dapper_Swindler posted:probably, but i think many are delusional enough to believe their own bullshit and have thanos level egotism/monster qualities to match. they are so used to their base that they think the whole country is like their base. Also they've isolated themselves from anybody but their base because they all stopped holding town halls out of sheer cowardice.
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Dec 11, 2019 18:42
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Angry_Ed posted:Also they've isolated themselves from anybody but their base because they all stopped holding town halls out of sheer cowardice. yep, they have fallen into their own trap and i am hoping it springs on them.
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Dec 11, 2019 18:44
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oxsnard posted:Haley could legitimately win in 2020 Uh, dude, she's a woman. There is no way in hell Republican's as a majority will vote for her.
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Dec 11, 2019 18:52
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eke out posted:yeah this is a key point: trump's interests aren't aligned with the republican party's, except in the "get acquitted at the end" part I think that discomfort probably has a lot to do with why we're hearing harrumphing about procedural stuff. It's not that McConnell has the votes to laugh off the need for a performance, it's that nobody (other than maybe Roberts) wants to be on the hook for voting to keep the shitshow contained.
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Dec 11, 2019 18:53
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eviltastic posted:I think that discomfort probably has a lot to do with why we're hearing harrumphing about procedural stuff. It's not that McConnell has the votes to laugh off the need for a performance, it's that nobody (other than maybe Roberts) wants to be on the hook for voting to keep the shitshow contained. yep. i mean the trump campaign unironically made this. https://twitter.com/TrumpWarRoom/status/1204503645607333888 these guys all believe their own dumb bullshit and don't see anything past that. the real movie clip might as well be a weird microcosim of how the GOP acts.
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Dec 11, 2019 19:03
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Dapper_Swindler posted:yep. What’s great is Thanos gets dusted seconds after saying “I am inevitable.” (He doesn’t even have the Infinity Stones in that clip) Slowpoke! fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Dec 11, 2019 |
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Dec 11, 2019 19:12
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It's more than that. Not only is Thanos the bad guy, but the entire movie builds up to Thanos and his plan being inevitable before being utterly owned twice.
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Dec 11, 2019 19:19
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lol at me explaining Endgame to goons
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Dec 11, 2019 19:20
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Faustian Bargain posted:It's more than that. Not only is Thanos the bad guy, but the entire movie builds up to Thanos and his plan being inevitable before being utterly owned twice. Slowpoke! posted:What’s great is Thanos gets dusted seconds after saying “I am inevitable.” yeah. that and you can make the same joke in better ways but they are too dumb. what i mean by posting it is that its kinda of microcosim of how the GOP/chuds/etc are trapped in their own weird mind bubble and they are unable to see beyond it. they are much like thanos in that moment. thanos fellatiating himself with dumb statements before he kills the universe because of his delusional egotistical bullshit, so much so that he doesn't understand that he go tricked until its too late. much like trump Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Dec 11, 2019 |
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Dec 11, 2019 19:25
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I find it exceptionally conspicuous how silent senate Rs have been about the whole impeachment process.
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Dec 11, 2019 19:31
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Herstory Begins Now posted:I find it exceptionally conspicuous how silent senate Rs have been about the whole impeachment process. agreed but why do you think they are doing that? to me i think alot of them dislike trump and know either road here leads to hell for them and the smarter ones are trying to figure out an out.
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Dec 11, 2019 19:32
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Dapper_Swindler posted:yep. So is impeachment Stormbringer or Tony Stark's snap?
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Dec 11, 2019 19:33
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Dapper_Swindler posted:agreed but why do you think they are doing that? to me i think alot of them dislike trump and know either road here leads to hell for them and the smarter ones are trying to figure out an out. doesn't explain Cruz though. He was spewing nonsense as recently as yesterday
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Dec 11, 2019 19:34
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oxsnard posted:doesn't explain Cruz though. He was spewing nonsense as recently as yesterday cruz is true believe lickspittle and so is graham and that other one. most have been silent. HootTheOwl posted:So is impeachment Stormbringer or Tony Stark's snap? i mean if this were a magic future, it would be tony snap and all of trumps ghouls would disintegrate(pushed out of office) with him in 2020.
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Dec 11, 2019 19:35
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Dapper_Swindler posted:cruz is true believe lickspittle and so is graham and that other one. most have been silent. I guess but I'd think Cruz would be the very first one to turn on trump if that's the road they're going down
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Dec 11, 2019 19:38
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Dapper_Swindler posted:cruz is true believe lickspittle and so is graham and that other one. most have been silent. And also all of the judges he appointed etc. etc. Sadly it's not that easy, though I maintain, jokingly, that since the Constitution doesn't explicitly say we can't completely undo a presidency that we might as well try.
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Dec 11, 2019 19:39
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