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to put things into perspective a little, the japanese legal concept of "self-determination" is a synonym for suicide
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Dec 11, 2019 17:47
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lofi posted:I'm really not an expert on Japanese culture, how is suicide viewed there? Is it more culturally acceptable? I wrote earlier that Japan has a cultural tolerance for suicide, and I believe that to be a good fairly accurate description. The good news is that suicide is on the decline after a huge spike in the late 90s/early 00s but otherwise Japanese culture still seems to put a heavier emphasis on how others perceive you vs your own individuality. All that said there is still a general sense that suicide, in some cases, is considered a morally responsible decision. It isn't even perceived as a mental health issue, more of a societal thing. NEET NEET NEET NEETN EETN ENENEET
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Dec 11, 2019 17:48
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Homogeneity and fitting in with society is hugely emphasized in Japan compared to the west. You may not notice it as someone who lives here but our culture is very individualistic even compared to the norm, and even moreso compared to countries like Japan.
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Dec 11, 2019 17:50
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Worse than Korea and China, I wonder? Confucianism really did a number in those places.
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Dec 11, 2019 18:09
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I don't think this is the case in the endings we saw, but one big factor in the perception of suicide in Japanese culture is that it was very often used as a method of atonement. Someone who massively, majorly hosed up in some regard could take their own life as atonement for their failures and they could effectively be forgiven. This is important because it doesn't just extend to them, but also protects from potential blowback against their family. Someone who failed their feudal lord in ancient times in a spectacular fashion could potential keep their family members from being killed, and might even be able to regain some shred of their honor by killing themself for their failure. Demanding suicide as atonement for failures was actually pretty common in the feudal era, IIRC. As a somewhat bizarre example someone familiar with American culture might understand, the Hatfields and McCoys are a pair of long feuding families famous for cycles of revenge- at some point someone killed a member of the other's family, and so they kill them/one of their family members in retaliation, which causes retaliation of it's own, etc, etc etc. Well, if these were Japanese situation in the days of yore, potentially the initial killer could have atoned for the killing to the other family by killing themself and prevented everything from perpetuating. Basically it's a potential way of being forgiven for the otherwise unforgivable- in this case you could think it of Tohru feeling so bad about how awful his life has impacted other peoples that he might think ending his own life would grant him some measure of absolution. But then, the comic didn't really imply that at all. It's still a potential bit of cultural context though.
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Dec 11, 2019 18:28
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On the other hand you have nasty stuff like landlords going to the funeral to extort money from the family of the suicidal person for damage compensation. Because superstition is big in Japan, a suicide in an apartment severely lowers the price they can rent it out at.
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Dec 11, 2019 18:34
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Shinmera posted:On the other hand you have nasty stuff like landlords going to the funeral to extort money from the family of the suicidal person for damage compensation. Because superstition is big in Japan, a suicide in an apartment severely lowers the price they can rent it out at. So Tohru potentially just hosed over his boss as well?
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Dec 11, 2019 18:48
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I bet he left all his money to his boss/landlord anyway, seems like the kind of thing he'd do
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Dec 11, 2019 18:52
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Shinmera posted:On the other hand you have nasty stuff like landlords going to the funeral to extort money from the family of the suicidal person for damage compensation. Because superstition is big in Japan, a suicide in an apartment severely lowers the price they can rent it out at. If I were the type of person who had any reason to live in Japan I would take big-time advantage of this
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Dec 11, 2019 18:58
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Lando131 posted:Basically it's a potential way of being forgiven for the otherwise unforgivable- in this case you could think it of Tohru feeling so bad about how awful his life has impacted other peoples that he might think ending his own life would grant him some measure of absolution. But then, the comic didn't really imply that at all. It's still a potential bit of cultural context though. i think that was plenty implied in the comic. at the very least, tohru's overly-utilitarian thought process about how to cause the least trouble, and concluding that continuing to live would cause more trouble than suicide, is definitely rooted deeply in japanese culture.
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Dec 11, 2019 19:01
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Looking forward to NEET and Einstein creating a harem comic that sucks poo poo and utterly bombs. They'll grow to loath each other and during a final confrontation the old fart snuffs it due to self defence.
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Dec 11, 2019 19:12
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Mr. Steak posted:i think that was plenty implied in the comic. at the very least, tohru's overly-utilitarian thought process about how to cause the least trouble, and concluding that continuing to live would cause more trouble than suicide, is definitely rooted deeply in japanese culture. I definitely got that but 'society/the world would be better off without me' is a fairly universal concept and I didn't feel the vibe of 'this might make up for the trouble I've caused'
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Dec 11, 2019 19:58
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Even though I don't read Japanese, i perused the authors site and spoiled myself some. Goons truly taint things lol, and I officially think we need OPTION 1 Tohru's redemption is in the past, not the present.
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Dec 11, 2019 19:59
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I think we literally picked the worst possible outcome for Tohru
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Dec 11, 2019 19:59
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Anomalous Amalgam posted:I think we literally picked the worst possible outcome for Tohru Have faith. I'm sure we can make it even worse!
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Dec 11, 2019 20:09
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Anomalous Amalgam posted:I think we literally picked the worst possible outcome for Tohru Nailed it
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Dec 11, 2019 20:18
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I'm glad.
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Dec 11, 2019 20:23
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Classon Ave. Robot posted:Homogeneity and fitting in with society is hugely emphasized in Japan compared to the west. You may not notice it as someone who lives here but our culture is very individualistic even compared to the norm, and even moreso compared to countries like Japan. I recently moved to Japan from a western country (the Netherlands). The cultural difference is very noticeable, but I feel that within groups of Japanese friends - individuality is tolerated pretty well. Japanese people seem to value avoiding conflict and will often go out of their way to accommodate you, even if you're being an rear end in a top hat. In my eyes, their culture of group mentality leads to predictability and some form of stability. On the flip-side, it seems hard as hell to enact any kind of change here. As a foreigner you're given a lot of lee-way, which can be annoying if you're trying to fit in because nobody will tell you that you're doing it wrong. In my country, people are very direct and will call you out on a lot of stuff. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
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Dec 12, 2019 04:05
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Imagine being a gormless Japanese ... stuck with a Dutchman.
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Dec 12, 2019 04:25
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All I can say from the tiny amount of personal experience I have is that if you want an older store clerk or small business owner to look at you like you are a fuckin alien from mars, try handing them the money instead of setting it on the counter between the two of you. Usually there's a little tray you put the money on so the coins are easy to pick up. I know this has nothing to do with cultural viewpoints on suicide but I have never had the chance to tell anybody this and I felt like a god drat idiot when I forgot to do this and got an awkward stare as he slowly took it from me
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Dec 12, 2019 04:28
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Do you know the reason why that's done, or is it just how things are? That sort of small everyday difference fascinates me.
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Dec 12, 2019 04:31
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lofi posted:Do you know the reason why that's done, or is it just how things are? That sort of small everyday difference fascinates me. You didn't ask me but I can answer; Japanese people don't like body contact and they go out of their way to prevent it. Instead of handing money, the tray is there to exchange money without hand contact. I suppose this is also why they typically don't do handshakes.
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Dec 12, 2019 06:21
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Natrox posted:You didn't ask me but I can answer; Japanese people don't like body contact and they go out of their way to prevent it. Instead of handing money, the tray is there to exchange money without hand contact. I suppose this is also why they typically don't do handshakes. Everywhere should adopt that to be honest. It's much more hygienic. CJacobs posted:All I can say from the tiny amount of personal experience I have is that if you want an older store clerk or small business owner to look at you like you are a fuckin alien from mars, try handing them the money instead of setting it on the counter between the two of you. Usually there's a little tray you put the money on so the coins are easy to pick up. I know this has nothing to do with cultural viewpoints on suicide but I have never had the chance to tell anybody this and I felt like a god drat idiot when I forgot to do this and got an awkward stare as he slowly took it from me This is genuinely interesting. In some of my many poo poo jobs I had before admitting failure as an adult and going back to school I operated a cash register and it was generally annoying if people set the money down instead of handing it over.
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Dec 12, 2019 06:28
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Resting Lich Face posted:Everywhere should adopt that to be honest. It's much more hygienic. It was annoying trying to grab coins off the counter; the money trays are lined with little rubber nubs that make coins easy to pick up.
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Dec 12, 2019 06:42
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fisting by many posted:It was annoying trying to grab coins off the counter; the money trays are lined with little rubber nubs that make coins easy to pick up. Exactly the coins are a loving nightmare. Why don't we have fancy rubber cash trays?
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Dec 12, 2019 06:45
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Why the gently caress do we still have coins? Edit: OP you can have all of my coins that still are worth money for an update. The votes are in,  is winning.
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Dec 12, 2019 09:26
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Man with Hat posted:Edit: OP you can have all of my coins that still are worth money for an update. ask, and ye shall recieve. (repeating the first two panels so its clear this is the start of a new path) 
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Dec 12, 2019 10:13
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Yes, Oda! YES! TEAR IT ALL UP! You are filled with determination!
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Dec 12, 2019 10:17
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oh yeah, so we've officially begun The Daily Life of a Certain Ex-Con Mangaka. it ended in 2019..... we'll be here for a while.
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Dec 12, 2019 10:20
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We'll be here less of a while if you post more NEET. 
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Dec 12, 2019 10:25
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Haifisch posted:We'll be here less of a while if you post more NEET. speaking of which, now that i'm not frenetically rushing towards a choice and an ending respectively, im gonna ease back into the "short updates several times a day" schedule. before, i was just churning out panels so i could reach the milestones, but henceforth the panel buffer will return. overall i like it best when im posting one panel at a time anyway. its more genuine
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Dec 12, 2019 10:28
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This is my determination *closes thread*
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Dec 12, 2019 10:31
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less... neet?
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Dec 12, 2019 10:31
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Mr. Steak posted:ask, and ye shall recieve. Oh, wow, it worked. I sent you some digital coffee but hit me up if you want some foreign coins in the mail I guess. Don't wanna be a liar.
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Dec 12, 2019 10:31
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Man with Hat posted:Oh, wow, it worked. I sent you some digital coffee but hit me up if you want some foreign coins in the mail I guess. Don't wanna be a liar. i have something to admit. youre not actually buying me coffee, you're buying me bang energy drink. its basically the same price for one lol @bang, please sponsor me
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Dec 12, 2019 18:51
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This changes everything.
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Dec 12, 2019 19:28
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how about you bang out some fricking panels
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Dec 12, 2019 19:28
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ijyt posted:how about you bang out some fricking panels Lol Have you tried the unicorn one? It tastes like the nerds candy. I’m 35 and legit recommend it. NOW GET BACK TO TRANSLATING
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Dec 12, 2019 19:31
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best bale posted:Lol the unicorn one is good, but the birthday cake one LEGIT TASTES LIKE A BIRTHDAY CAKE WHAT THE gently caress
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Dec 12, 2019 19:40
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Mr. Steak posted:the unicorn one is good, but the birthday cake one LEGIT TASTES LIKE A BIRTHDAY CAKE WHAT THE gently caress birthday cake is not a flavor! it's just regular cake, you can't taste the birthday part.
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Dec 12, 2019 19:47
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