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It is exactly just normal motion sickness.You adapt to it eventually over a period of time as you become accustomed to it but it's good to take breaks, play in short sessions, have some air circulating to your face like from a fan, or taking some ginger helps combat the motion sickness felt. Some people also just get more sick than others.
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Dec 11, 2019 10:23
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Turin Turambar posted:
I'd normally be a lot harder on it cause I'm 100% a "VR legs are not real", give people every possible comfort option kind of person, but its ambitious as gently caress, its trying all kinds of new things that no one has really done before, probably for good reason because those things mostly don't work but there's nothing else that really plays anything like it and its mostly successful at what its going for in a "more than the sum of its parts" kind of way. And its one thing to break the rules out of laziness or ignorance, but this is a game that more or less justifies the decisions it makes and those decisions are totally core to the design of the game. They sell it as an "experimental physics VR adventure" and couch it a lot in language like "for advanced VR players" and its very much an exploration in pushing the limits people are familiar with, but also a really good case study for why the limits should be what they are. Its definitely not gonna be a game for everyone though, and it would be incredibly hosed up to recommend it to someone as a first experience. Its pretty well established at this point that its totally possible to make VR that is completely comfortable for everyone though, so I don't like one pukey game is gonna derail VR for anyone.
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Dec 11, 2019 10:41
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homeless snail posted:I'd normally be a lot harder on it cause I'm 100% a "VR legs are not real", I have no idea if they are real or not, and imo even if they are real, is besides the point: you can't make a mainstream product with the premise of 'you only will have sickness problems for the first 2-3 weeks!'. Yeah, people aren't going to get potentially queasy for a pair of weeks just to play a drat video game. Turin Turambar fucked around with this message at 11:13 on Dec 11, 2019 |
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Dec 11, 2019 11:02
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homeless snail posted:Yeah its definitely going to leave a bad taste for a lot of people, its a game that goes completely out of its way to break every single rule of modern VR game design. Like its pretty much everything what Valve was warning people about 5 years ago or whatever to not make people miserable and gently caress up VR for everyone. And it does so while also actively making fun of a lot of those design principals in the tutorial, lmao, so its no accident. Come to think of it, I'm surprised they didn't add full-body tracking support just to go all-in on physical presence in the game.
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Dec 11, 2019 11:07
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Vadoc posted:It is exactly just normal motion sickness.You adapt to it eventually over a period of time as you become accustomed to it but it's good to take breaks, play in short sessions, have some air circulating to your face like from a fan, or taking some ginger helps combat the motion sickness felt. Some people also just get more sick than others. It's worse than normal, honestly. Especially with climbing, because it's not 1:1 with your arms. They're on like some kind of spring where your arms can only apply so much force, so as you move your arms in real life your game arms only move some certain amount. This causes you not to track what your arms are doing, as well as a lot of springy bouncing back and forth. I'm pretty fine with most stuff, I'd consider myself somewhat above average in terms of being able to handle motion sickness, and I had to stop after a few hours because I was getting sick and my eyes started hurting. I was able to finish after a few hours' break, but it's definitely pushing you harder than most things. Even stuff like grabbing switches and levers will often cause you to hover or bounce for a little. It's very not kind.
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Dec 11, 2019 11:10
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Turin Turambar posted:I have no idea if they are real or not, as imo even if they are real, is besides the point: you can't make a mainstream product with the premise of 'you only will have sickness problems for the first 2-3 weeks!'. Yeah, people aren't going to get potentially queasy for a pair of weeks just to play a drat video game. There are plenty of games that won't make you sick though, more than most of them probably. Anyone in their right mind making a VR game right now wants to accommodate as many people as possible. So one game that has a compelling reason for being a little pukey, idk whatever, people that get sick easily can play something else Neddy Seagoon posted:Come to think of it, I'm surprised they didn't add full-body tracking support just to go all-in on physical presence in the game.
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Dec 11, 2019 11:22
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I like the game, but the thing my brain is saying no to is the jelly wrist. I wish they would tone that down a bit. Holding a hammer is not that heavy. I stopped for the night trying to get that box by the ceiling in the playroom with the bounce floor. I also need to learn how to pull myself up and over.
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Dec 11, 2019 11:33
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Turin Turambar posted:I have no idea if they are real or not, and imo even if they are real, is besides the point: you can't make a mainstream product with the premise of 'you only will have sickness problems for the first 2-3 weeks!'. Yeah, people aren't going to get potentially queasy for a pair of weeks just to play a drat video game. Like VR, keyboards will never catch on and become mainstream. People aren't going to use something that might give them carpal tunnel so they can  It's motion sickness, not lyme disease.
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Dec 11, 2019 11:36
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Don't just climb with your hands and think you are done, use the joystick to move and the button to jump to vault yourselves over. They teach you this during the museum My only complaint is the VR Body gets stuck on things and I'm not going to fight against that, but everything else about Boneworks is just real loving fun.
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Dec 11, 2019 14:27
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Michaellaneous posted:Im looking for some chill VR experiences thar I can show my parents. I have a VIVE. Any suggestions? My mom was really impressed by The Blu. She said it felt like she was scuba diving again.  It's a "VR Experience" - that is, there's no interactions or gameplay. You just watch. You yourself will only "play" it once, so you'll have to decide if it's worth the  for something that's just for showing to others. Also, you can't go wrong with the archery minigame in The Lab. Young or old, everyone likes it.
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Dec 11, 2019 15:41
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Han Nehi posted:Also, you can't go wrong with the archery minigame in The Lab. Young or old, everyone likes it. I like the Slingshot minigame better myself, just because you have to take a longer distance into consideration (for the "woah, VR!" factor) and you can put your whole body and playspace into aiming a shot.
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Dec 11, 2019 15:44
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TheBlu is my go-to first VR thingy for guests who aren't really gamers. Lets people get a taste of what it's like being in a VR space with no pressure, no artificial locomotion, and no gameplay to explain. And it's fun to watch people react to the whale 
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Dec 11, 2019 15:48
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treat posted:Like VR, keyboards will never catch on and become mainstream. People aren't going to use something that might give them carpal tunnel so they can This might be the dumbest post I've ever seen in this thread and I'm now convinced it's you that has lyme disease. Carpal tunnel is an injury that takes years to show up and people who get it often won't just stop using a keyboard, because their job requires it or it's the way they've learned to interface with their computer in their leisure time, over decades. It often manifests in subtle ways that can be worked around. The point is no one can really anticipate getting it. Motion sickness takes minutes to show up and makes you feel like you're going to loving puke. It can make you actually puke. It is the brain sending the loudest, most primal message of "whatever you're up to, stop right now and never do it again" possible. I have friends who have gotten sick from VR once and have sworn to never go near it again. I personally got motion sick from a lot of early VR, and would reflexively get sick on otherwise comfortable games because I had to "unlearn" the reflex like some hosed up version of the ludovico technique from A Clockwork Orange. I was excited for this game but hearing the reactions so far and knowing I'm susceptible, I'm not even going to attempt playing unless the developers demonstrate some more respect to the issues. I don't get why people think it's a fine idea to create another niche (motion sickness resistant players only) to a niche (VR) to a niche (PC gaming).
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Dec 11, 2019 17:25
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Turin Turambar posted:I have no idea if they are real or not, and imo even if they are real, is besides the point: you can't make a mainstream product with the premise of 'you only will have sickness problems for the first 2-3 weeks!'. Yeah, people aren't going to get potentially queasy for a pair of weeks just to play a drat video game. While there is some truth to this, its worth pointing out that this is true of FPSs in general as well - unless you were exposed to them from a young age, they cause motion sickness for most people for a couple weeks. Yet they still got very popular! But mostly its because I don't think every game needs to care. Portal made a bunch of people motion sick, moreso than normal First Person games, but it was integral to the experience so its just, like, whatever, that's the price you pay. Boneworks seems to be the same. It sucks in a way, but I'm glad they're pushing things you know? And Steam's return policy should cover it if you can't cope. In other news, I'm not actually getting Boneworks any time soon. Gonna finish Lone Echo and play a lot more of The Climb first (both of which are great, and neither of which caused any motion sickness at all in me). I'm definitely on a VR kick though. Good to be back.
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Dec 11, 2019 17:32
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Bloodplay it again posted:... I'm not disagreeing it's annoying that this issue exists, but you're looking at spending many hours instead of 5 minutes. Oculus support is really good even helping people outside of warrenty, they'd probably cross ship with you so you wouldn't loose access.
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Dec 11, 2019 17:36
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Who had this grand idea to make such huge loving levels in Boneworks without savegames? I spent like two hours on that drat Streets scene, then I had to scram for something, now I have to start entirely over. What in the gently caress. God forbid I need a longer pause.
Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Dec 11, 2019 |
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Dec 11, 2019 18:08
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I’m enjoying Boneworks, more so for the shooting than anything else. I like shouting “pick up that can, Citizen” at nullvoids then blasting them with the MP5 and coldly muttering “Citizen pacified” as they crumple to the ground. I really wish I knew about that climbing stuff, I made it to Transit Station 05 and stopped for the night, but that loving playroom is the worst. Lost my pistol in the mess of moving giant foam structures around and had to stop with the swinging lights out of frustration. I definitely feel the body is more of a hindrance than I’d like and while my VR legs (which are real, it’s about training your brain to disconnect your visual input from what the rest of your body is sensing) are pretty drat strong, I was getting a little bit of churn towards the end. Still fun though! It’s definitely a weird hybrid of Half Life 2 meets Portal meets Lawnmower Man. I like the use of FMV and being able to slow time anywhere for as long as I want is really satisfying.
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Dec 11, 2019 18:29
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Yeah the lack of saving is absolutely bizarre and terrible
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Dec 11, 2019 18:43
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homeless snail posted:Boneworks seems pretty cool, I'm not big on the IK and physics body stuff because its getting in the way a lot so far. Kinda frustrating to lose track of your hands because your IK elbows got stuck on the corner of a table, or dribbling a basketball (which you can totally do and feels great) but it bounces off your virtual knee. Everybody that was wondering why Valve is doing floating Rayman hands for Alyx There ya go
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Dec 11, 2019 18:49
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Yeah but at the same time I feel like Valve would probably do a better job with the IK. Like in Boneworks it just looks bad/wrong so frequently it's not a matter of edge cases where it's near impossible to guess correctly, even the general case looks not so well implemented. Not mad about it or anything since it's an indie team, but pretty sure Valve would do it better.
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Dec 11, 2019 18:51
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Michaellaneous posted:Im looking for some chill VR experiences thar I can show my parents. I have a VIVE. Any suggestions? Check out the OP. Job Sim / Vacation Sim & Beat Saber are pretty ideal starting points. Also just put people in Home and load up an environment, honestly, that's pretty compelling and chill.
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Dec 11, 2019 18:54
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Cicero posted:Yeah but at the same time I feel like Valve would probably do a better job with the IK. Like in Boneworks it just looks bad/wrong so frequently it's not a matter of edge cases where it's near impossible to guess correctly, even the general case looks not so well implemented. Not mad about it or anything since it's an indie team, but pretty sure Valve would do it better. Maybe they should have maintained the IK body but make an exception for the head (and therefore, how the first person view is tied to the head), as it seems what it provokes more sickness, with the view tumbling around when you try to climb, etc.
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Dec 11, 2019 18:56
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Has any developer tried haptic feedback as a "no" buzzer? If the game wants you to swing a weapon or move your hand at a certain speed to simulate weight, have a sphere of "correct" position that you have to stay in otherwise the controller buzzes. Then, over time, presumably the player becomes accustomed to moving the appropriate speed to avoid hitting the buzzer 'wall' of too fast.
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Dec 11, 2019 18:56
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To all who are new at boneworks I share this advanced strategy for dealing with nullbodies. Some assembly required. https://clips.twitch.tv/CautiousBusyGaurTakeNRG
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Dec 11, 2019 18:56
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treat posted:Like VR, keyboards will never catch on and become mainstream. People aren't going to use something that might give them carpal tunnel so they can People use keyboards for their jobs, not just games. And you don't need to learn how to type to game on a keyboard. There's tons of people, gamers included, who still hunt and peck. And learning typing isn't physically sickening. Bad comparison.
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Dec 11, 2019 18:57
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Combat Pretzel posted:Who had this grand idea to make such huge loving levels in Boneworks without savegames? I spent like two hours on that drat Streets scene, then I had to scram for something, now I have to start entirely over. What in the gently caress. God forbid I need a longer pause. Considering its VR it makes all the less sense. People need to take breaks. But that's the problem with indies. They spent all their time on the IK and VR interactions. Hopefully they patch something in.
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Dec 11, 2019 18:58
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Bhodi posted:Has any developer tried haptic feedback as a "no" buzzer? If the game wants you to swing a weapon or move your hand at a certain speed to simulate weight, have a sphere of "correct" position that you have to stay in otherwise the controller buzzes. Then, over time, presumably the player becomes accustomed to moving the appropriate speed to avoid hitting the buzzer 'wall' of too fast. I like where your head is at but I dunno. In practice I think this would be frustrating.
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Dec 11, 2019 19:00
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There's a few weirdos out there defending the lack of saving by saying it isn't possible to save locations of physics objects even though games have been doing that for well over a decade now. A dev tweeted this out yesterday, hopefully they can get it in sooner rather than later. It took me 2 hours to finish the first level yesterday, way longer than I wanted to play especially in VR https://twitter.com/BrandonJLa/status/1204588280559198208
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Dec 11, 2019 19:05
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HolyKrap posted:There's a few weirdos out there defending the lack of saving by saying it isn't possible to save locations of physics objects even though games have been doing that for well over a decade now. Also, I'd prefer if self-body collisions will disable conditionally. Like climbing, and when your hands are out of the field of view in general. Having your avatar get stuck and/or flop around because you're getting caught into some poo poo with your hands at hip height, that's annoying. Same goes for climbing, planning arm motion meticulously to not collide with the grab pads, or when crossing arms trying to move across these pads (crabbing side ways, grabbing across arms works fine in real space, but then IK in Boneworks goes nuh-uh), bleh. Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Dec 11, 2019 |
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Dec 11, 2019 19:09
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The devs were too busy making robot torture porn trailers to remember that saving and/or frequent checkpoints have been a standard feature for 25 years.
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Dec 11, 2019 19:15
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Floating hands are better than IK.
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Dec 11, 2019 19:20
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HolyKrap posted:There's a few weirdos out there defending the lack of saving by saying it isn't possible to save locations of physics objects even though games have been doing that for well over a decade now. That's ridiculous. Even if they don't want to save physics objects it isn't that hard to implement checkpoints and reset the objects on reload.
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Dec 11, 2019 19:21
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The backseat game development in this thread is always funny but I’m not sure they didnt add a save function just to piss everyone off
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Dec 11, 2019 19:24
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StabMasterArson posted:The backseat game development in this thread is always funny but I’m not sure they didnt add a save function just to piss everyone off Nobody suggested that, your disingenuous argument is bs Its back seat game dev to say a game product is flawed? 
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Dec 11, 2019 19:27
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StabMasterArson posted:The backseat game development in this thread is always funny but I’m not sure they didnt add a save function just to piss everyone off It's not backseat game dev to say "this dev team probably could've found a way to include this extremely basic feature that every other game manages to do"
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Dec 11, 2019 19:35
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Man, Quests are properly sold out everywhere aren't they? Good on them for marketing the gently caress out of it but I guess that makes it easier to resist the temptation to buy one with bonus Christmas money this year 
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Dec 11, 2019 19:37
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Wondering if anyone knows what’s going on here: Playing Stormland with Oculus Link, and when I move my very quickly I can see the “edge” of the frame like it can’t quite keep up with my head movement. Very noticeable when I look up and down. Is this just my 1070 not having the juice or what? Maybe a Link issue? AndrewP fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Dec 11, 2019 |
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Dec 11, 2019 19:38
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explosivo posted:Man, Quests are properly sold out everywhere aren't they? Good on them for marketing the gently caress out of it but I guess that makes it easier to resist the temptation to buy one with bonus Christmas money this year But everyone told me VR is dead?????
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Dec 11, 2019 19:40
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PantsBandit posted:It's not backseat game dev to say "this dev team probably could've found a way to include this extremely basic feature that every other game manages to do" I just meant that it might not be that easy, just adding a save button could break the whole thing for all we know
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Dec 11, 2019 19:44
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explosivo posted:Man, Quests are properly sold out everywhere aren't they? Good on them for marketing the gently caress out of it but I guess that makes it easier to resist the temptation to buy one with bonus Christmas money this year It seems like the combination of the holidays and the Alyx announcement has really given VR sales a jolt. That said I ordered mine off Amazon and it only took them like a week to get it back in stock, so if you're still interested you can probably get one.
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Dec 11, 2019 19:44
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