|
precision posted:The first game I beat without help was Wizardry 6, which was kind of shocking because I never got very far in 5 at all and I know for a fact I was not really min maxing or putting much thought into anything Contrary to it's reputation, I think Wizardry 6 plays fair for it's time. The combat is balanced, you don't have to grind, and the puzzles are intuitive. Unless you are playing on hard difficulty, you don't really need to min-max and build the perfect party. I remember 5 having a bunch of obscure puzzles and bad dungeon levels.
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2019 00:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 19:19 |
|
|
I fully believe everyone should do a single party playthrough of Wizardry 6-8 at some point. I had a thread a while ago on RPGCodex where I stumbled through my experience of doing so over the course of a few years, but it was merged into some general thread and half the posts were deleted, probably because it was a thread about actual games instead of why women are scary or whatever
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2019 01:20
|
|
|
Joe Chill posted:Contrary to it's reputation, I think Wizardry 6 plays fair for it's time. The combat is balanced, you don't have to grind, and the puzzles are intuitive. Unless you are playing on hard difficulty, you don't really need to min-max and build the perfect party. Does it have a reputation? Like you say, it's super fair for its time. The puzzles were actually somewhat logical Really the only barrier to entry is the necessity of lots and lots of graph paper
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2019 02:43
|
|
|
Wizardry 6's reputation for me was a CRPG that on the surface was a lot like the previous games, but in actuality meant that you could misunderstand things just enough that you could not even get through the first area successfully. But that could be because I was too young to have the patience to make maps (I tried once and ended up like two squares off at the top of my map versus the bottom and got so mad I quit the game for years). I definitely enjoyed going back and playing through 6 and getting to 7 with the same party, though.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2019 02:54
|
|
|
A big part of Wizardry 6's reputation has been you're totally screwed if your party is not composed of six super-ninja-samurai-mages.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2019 05:25
|
|
|
Joe Chill posted:A big part of Wizardry 6's reputation has been you're totally screwed if your party is not composed of six super-ninja-samurai-mages. That's absolutely not true though. I never used class changing, and IIRC my party was valkyrie, samurai, ninja, bard, bishop and mage. And like I said, this was before I'd developed any kind of min maxing mentality
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2019 05:35
|
|
|
Kuros posted:Overall not bad for a first run through but suggestions if you run through MM6 again: Thanks for the super informative post. I went into the game mostly blind, so I'm not surprised I made some bad choices. Some skills I took early on, not knowing that they'd lose their usefulness with time or that they'd never become useful, and I put more points into armour skills than necessary thinking that more points = more protection. I'll sure take all of this on board when playing through MM7.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2019 11:09
|
|
|
precision posted:That's absolutely not true though. I never used class changing, and IIRC my party was valkyrie, samurai, ninja, bard, bishop and mage. And like I said, this was before I'd developed any kind of min maxing mentality I didn't say it was true?
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2019 12:32
|
|
|
My bad, I thought you were stating a truth rather than a misconception  I've honestly never heard anyone say that about wiz 6, but I have heard people say it about 7 (it's not true there either). I almost beat 7 without help but I had to call the ~hint line~ from a pay phone no less to figure out how to get in the final dungeon
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2019 12:53
|
|
|
precision posted:My bad, I thought you were stating a truth rather than a misconception I’d say it is true if you want to do all the content in 7—you’re not going to realistically beat the Chamber of Gorrors without a heavily multiclassed party. But yeah, you don’t strictly need to multiclass in either to beat the game. It does make it a lot easier though. My first time through 7 I had two characters that never did a class change and by the end of the game they were still perfectly capable, but really underpowered compared to the rest of the party.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2019 21:26
|
|
|
szary posted:Thanks for the super informative post. I went into the game mostly blind, so I'm not surprised I made some bad choices. Some skills I took early on, not knowing that they'd lose their usefulness with time or that they'd never become useful, and I put more points into armour skills than necessary thinking that more points = more protection. I'll sure take all of this on board when playing through MM7. 7 does change it up a bit with the addition of some classes having limitations to certain skills, some having changes to their skill level bonuses and the Grandmaster skill level. You pretty much want your characters, whatever they are, to focus in things that they can eventually Master/Grandmaster on class change. Example: Everyone can learn Bow, only Archers can Grandmaster it. Therefore while it's useful for your Sorc to learn Bow, there's no purpose putting extra points into it because you only increase the attack bonus for extra points of Bow on a basic level. Also, swords aren't the end all best weapons for some characters now. Some weapons skills now add your level to damage, which makes them very good. Also, spells are now limited by skill level, so no more rushing high level spells such as Town Portal.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2019 03:30
|
|
|
Yeah, 7 punishes you pretty hard if you don't pick the right skills to specialize in
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2019 09:22
|
|
|
precision posted:Yeah, 7 punishes you pretty hard if you don't pick the right skills to specialize in I started a run last night: Goblin Monk/Human Paladin/Elf Sorc/Dwarf Cleric. Light Side. This build is more on the defensive side at first, but once I build up the Monk he should be able to tank quite well. Monk: GM - Dodge, Unarmed, Staff, Body Building. M - Armsmaster, Leather E - Spirit, Mind, Body, Perception B - Bow, Learning Paladin: GM - Mace, Shield, Repair M - Spirit, Mind, Body, Plate, Body Building E - Armsmaster, Meditation B - Learning, Light, Bow, Merchant Sorc: GM - Fire, Water, Air, Earth, Light, ID Item, ID Monster M - Meditation, Staff, Alchemy (Maybe) E - Leather B - Learning, Bow, Merchant Cleric: GM: Spirit, Mind, Body, Light, Merchant M: Mace, Shield, Meditation E: Chain B: Bow, Learning, Body Building
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2019 19:40
|
|
|
precision posted:Picked up Bards Tale 4 on the black Friday PSN sale and it's simultaneously way more janky and way more interesting/good than I was expecting. Definitely a pleasant surprise. You buffoon, no! I tried to warn everyone in the other RPG thread. The charm wont last but the jank will spiral out of control until it consumes the game.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2019 00:41
|
|
|
Barudak posted:You buffoon, no! I tried to warn everyone in the other RPG thread. The charm wont last but the jank will spiral out of control until it consumes the game. That really is inXile Entertainment's unofficial motto.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2019 04:23
|
|
|
Has there been anymore word on that Wasteland 1 remaster? The few screens I saw showed it looked dope.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2019 05:31
|
|
|
chaosapiant posted:Wasteland 1 remaster? What??? Oh man. Hell yeah
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2019 08:25
|
|
|
Heres one of my favorite but least detrimental janky things that pops up in Bards Tale IV and I should probably just copy my list of suffering here so none of you others fall for its wiles. The ending cutscene for a brief moment has a mouse cursor hover over it. I know its not your mouse cursor but rather a hard coded one thats part of the ending video because it appears even if youre playing on a console
Barudak fucked around with this message at 08:54 on Dec 9, 2019 |
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2019 08:51
|
|
|
MM6 talk has got me thinking of trying to beat it again. The last time I tried it, I hit a wall at the deserts where there was hordes of dragons each with boatloads of HP and my go-to strategy of flying overhead and nuking them didn't seem to work on flying creatures. I keep reading elsewhere that armageddon or whatever the uber AOE spell should still have worked on them, anyone with experience care to comment on if I was doing something wrong? Also, any suggestions for a CSSS party in terms of skills? IIRC, my last party had a knight who was just dead weight by the endgame and my poorly optimized casters had wasted points mastering bad magic schools.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 01:40
|
|
|
moot the hopple posted:MM6 talk has got me thinking of trying to beat it again. The last time I tried it, I hit a wall at the deserts where there was hordes of dragons each with boatloads of HP and my go-to strategy of flying overhead and nuking them didn't seem to work on flying creatures.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 01:48
|
|
|
moot the hopple posted:MM6 talk has got me thinking of trying to beat it again. The last time I tried it, I hit a wall at the deserts where there was hordes of dragons each with boatloads of HP and my go-to strategy of flying overhead and nuking them didn't seem to work on flying creatures. I keep reading elsewhere that armageddon or whatever the uber AOE spell should still have worked on them, anyone with experience care to comment on if I was doing something wrong? The slow, but safe way is to fly just out of range of the dragons, quickspell Starburst and Meteor Shower spells, just pop into range, spam the spells and fly back out of range. You know when you're in range when the indicator gem turns to yellow. Also you need to have your cursor on the dragon group that you wish to nuke. If you're not using a Greyface patched version of the game, you can actually just be just out of range and the nukes will hit. As for the skills: Cleric: Mace, Shield, Chain, Bow, Spirit, Mind, Body, Light, Dark Pump up these skills high: Light, Dark Master and then put in no more points: Mace, Shield, Chain, Bow, Mind, Body. Expert and then put in no more points: Spirit Why? Light and Dark are the best schools for damage spells and healing via Divine Intervention. You can use the fountain on Hermit's Isle to remove magical aging for free, you can spread the Divine Intervention uses around and you can wait to use the fountain when your caster is way too old. It's good to master your weapon and armor skills, Mind is mastered for Telekinesis and Body is mastered for Power Cure since it's actually effective on caster teams due to low HP values. Spirit is fine at expert since your most important spells are status curing spells and those get an hour per point at expert. Why would you leave dead characters around if you can heal them up asap? Sorc 1: Dagger, Leather, Bow, Fire, Water, Air, Earth, Light, Dark Pump up these skills high: Light, Dark Master and then put in no more points: Dagger, Leather, Bow, Fire, Water, Air Expert and then put in no more points: Earth Why? Light and Dark for the same reasons as the Cleric. Same with weapon and armor skills. Fire, Water and Air are all useful with Meteor Shower, Starburst, Fly, Town Portal and Lloyd's Beacon. 10 Beacons between two casters are plenty to cover you. Earth's most useful skills are Stone to Flesh, Stone Skin and Turn to Stone (For the Medusa dungeon if you care about not killing peasants). Otherwise mastering Earth is a waste. Sorc 2: Dagger, Leather, Bow, Fire, Water, Air, Earth, Light, Dark Pump up these skills high: Light, Dark Master and then put in no more points: Dagger, Leather, Bow, Fire, Water, Air Expert and then put in no more points: Earth Why? See Sorc 1. Sorc 3: Staff, Leather, Bow, Fire, Air, Light, Dark Pump up these skills high: Light, Dark Master and then put in no more points: Staff, Leather, Bow, Fire, Air Why? Make this Sorc your best Light/Dark caster. Hopefully you find Merlin (Staff) for the SP boost as well. Skip Water as you already have two casters who can Beacon and Portal. Skip Earth since you have two casters who can use those spells. Fire and Air are mostly for damaging spells such as Inferno, Ring of Fire, Starburst, etc. And also spells like Fly and Haste. Sorc 3 will also be a good person to put Repair, Merchant, Perception, etc onto. Give to everyone: Master Meditation (More SP the better), Basic (skill 1) Learning, Master Body Building (More HP the better), Blaster (Rank 1 should work) Give to one party member: Master ID Item (Only if you don't bring a Scholar with you), Master Merchant (Have the Merchant buy and sell your items), Master Repair Item (You can swap stuff mid-battle to repair on the fly), Perception (Expert Perception needed for Quest Dungeon) Ignore: Disarm Trap (Make a beeline to get Telekinesis for your Cleric) Hope this helps.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 02:49
|
|
|
Kuros posted:The slow, but safe way is to fly just out of range of the dragons, quickspell Starburst and Meteor Shower spells, just pop into range, spam the spells and fly back out of range. You know when you're in range when the indicator gem turns to yellow. Also you need to have your cursor on the dragon group that you wish to nuke. If you're not using a Greyface patched version of the game, you can actually just be just out of range and the nukes will hit. Thanks, this lines up with what I've been reading elsewhere online and what I remember from playing it years ago, the point breakdowns is really useful to me.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 04:36
|
|
|
moot the hopple posted:Thanks, this lines up with what I've been reading elsewhere online and what I remember from playing it years ago, the point breakdowns is really useful to me. As an alternative, you could have your Cleric ignore Dark and focus Light and have the Sorcs do the inverse. The Cleric will be your heal bot along with casting DotG, HoP and Divine Intervention. Sorcs will be using Day of Protection, Shrapmetal, Dragon Breath and Armageddon. If you go this route, having at least Light 1 with Divine Intervention on the Sorcs will be good for emergency situations.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 06:10
|
|
|
Sometimes I wish there were phone versions of classic RPGs where you go through robust character creation for hours and then just click on dungeons and the game automatically simulates your level of success or crushing defeat Edit: I think someone should steal this idea and do it
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 15:10
|
|
|
Do you mind an overwhelming emphasis on the equivalent of rerolling your stat total Wizardry-style, and also that costing money to do? Because gacha may be the genre for you!
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 16:29
|
|
|
Monetized Save-Scumming
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 19:42
|
|
|
precision posted:Sometimes I wish there were phone versions of classic RPGs where you go through robust character creation for hours and then just click on dungeons and the game automatically simulates your level of success or crushing defeat Now I'm wondering why this isn't a thing already. There are strategy games where you can't fight battles, the game just calculates the outcome for you (Dominions 5, for example) and shows you the result, so why isn't there anything like that for RPGs?
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 21:55
|
|
|
precision posted:Sometimes I wish there were phone versions of classic RPGs where you go through robust character creation for hours and then just click on dungeons and the game automatically simulates your level of success or crushing defeat So basically hooking ProgressQuest up to character/party creation screen? I'd totally play that.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 22:12
|
|
|
precision posted:Sometimes I wish there were phone versions of classic RPGs where you go through robust character creation for hours and then just click on dungeons and the game automatically simulates your level of success or crushing defeat This is more or less how Daggerfall plays out tbh Spicier alternative: this is literally Age of Decadence
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2019 00:57
|
|
|
Libluini posted:Now I'm wondering why this isn't a thing already. There are strategy games where you can't fight battles, the game just calculates the outcome for you (Dominions 5, for example) and shows you the result, so why isn't there anything like that for RPGs?
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2019 13:12
|
|
|
Princess Maker and games like it are basically hybrids of time-management sim and RPG, so they can get away with that, but the thing about pure RPGs is that playing your character within the constraints of your stats and skills is pretty much the one thing the game is about. Unless you add an additional layer of gameplay to it, cutting out any combat might simply take away too much from the game for it to still work.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2019 13:19
|
|
|
precision posted:Sometimes I wish there were phone versions of classic RPGs where you go through robust character creation for hours and then just click on dungeons and the game automatically simulates your level of success or crushing defeat I think there was a flash game like this where the most control you had was deciding which rooms your party traveled to but I don't remember what it was
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2019 13:31
|
|
|
Dr. Quarex posted:The most important thing about Might & Magic VI in context is that it was an important piece of evidence that maybe the new 3D graphics push was not, in fact, leading to superior results. I am sure it seems obvious now that pixel art is entirely back in favor, but in the late 1990s you would seriously have people claiming VI looked better than V just because it was newer. Argument: 3D allowed NWC much greater freedom in dungeon design. Like, a silly impractical dungeon design, but it showed their dedication. I spent some time in Tomb of Varn just going around being like "wow, so awesome, so stupid". (Of course I spend hours more trying to figure where to turn the keys in, why would I ever chuck them into a pool?)
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2019 16:14
|
|
|
So while looking for mods for MM7, I found out that someone had revised the Chaos Conspiracy mod for MM6 and streamlined it very recently. https://www.moddb.com/mods/the-chaos-conspiracy-redone The install can be slightly obtuse, but the readme explains it. The main thing is you have to move the files out of the MMExtension and MMEditor and place them directly into your MM6 install directory. This is a very comprehensive mod, new enemies, new items, new quests, etc etc etc. The character builds are pretty much the same though, so I'm going with a CSSS party as I described earlier. If any of you decide to give this a try, two major notes: 1. The difficulty levels are no joke. When you go into the tavern from the start you talk to the Seer and set your difficulty level, only start on higher levels if you want beginning zone meat tank enemies. 2. Keep good notes, the auto quest notes are lacking so I'd keep a notepad or something open to keep notes because you will typically see quest information ONCE and that's it. Edit: GOG sale is on, MM games are on the same sale as I posted earlier in the thread, 75% off. Kuros fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Dec 11, 2019 |
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2019 16:48
|
|
|
Chev posted:Isn't it what stuff like Princess Maker was about? Not really. Personally, I can't even think of games like Princess Maker as RPGs, my brain puts them into the same category as economy simulation games or visual novels. I think you could say they're like a hybrid of both? They're telling a story like a novel and at the same time give you tons of stats to manipulate like Football Manager 2000 or something. I know RPGs have tons of stats, but that's not really the sole identifier for RPGs, or Civilization VI would count as a RPG, too.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2019 21:15
|
|
|
Crusader Kings 2 clearly is an RPG though. It even has magic swords.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2019 21:56
|
|
|
Gladi posted:Argument: 3D allowed NWC much greater freedom in dungeon design. Like, a silly impractical dungeon design, but it showed their dedication. I spent some time in Tomb of Varn just going around being like "wow, so awesome, so stupid". (Of course I spend hours more trying to figure where to turn the keys in, why would I ever chuck them into a pool?) This is true for the environment. Like Daggerfall's dungeons, for good or ill, could never have been done without a polygonal environment. I think where 3D looked the worst was character stuff. NWC tried to match their 3D environments with 3D models baked to sprites and they look pretty awful (way worse than Daggerfall so partially design's fault). Real time 3D characters also looked pretty dreadful in this period (like most in Wiz 8). That's why a pretty great compromise used today is proper 3D environments with 2D art. Something like Void Bastards (with less sophisticated shader work) could've been done in this period and would've looked great if companies in the late 90s/early 00s hadn't been so enamored with technology for technology's sake.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2019 23:12
|
|
|
MLB The Show is a pretty good RPG
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2019 04:10
|
|
|
Well after contemplating it for however many years I finally decided to start parting with my endless Big Box PC Game(tm) collection, go have at it you beloved scoundrels though I admit I am holding on to a fair amount of my older CRPGs (but there are still several there).
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2019 05:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 19:19 |
|
|
Libluini posted:Not really. Personally, I can't even think of games like Princess Maker as RPGs, my brain puts them into the same category as economy simulation games or visual novels. I think you could say they're like a hybrid of both? They're telling a story like a novel and at the same time give you tons of stats to manipulate like Football Manager 2000 or something.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 12:31
|
|