Inceltown posted:

You can fight amongst yourselves on whether this belongs here or not

https://twitter.com/miaaselaa/status/1203908356706054145

ultrafilter posted:

It's actually secretly blessed because it disproves something that scientists generally believed.
https://twitter.com/javi_draws/status/1204471648159703041

Fox Cunning posted:

Not having seen all the cat videos, do they really show cats recognizing themselves, which is the point of the mirror self recognition test? Or do they just get flummoxed by the reflection of the humans not matching up? Recognizing oneself and understanding reflection are not the same.

The Dregs posted:

That second cat is the most delightfully derpy looking animal I've ever seen.

Fox Cunning posted:

Not having seen all the cat videos, do they really show cats recognizing themselves, which is the point of the mirror self recognition test? Or do they just get flummoxed by the reflection of the humans not matching up? Recognizing oneself and understanding reflection are not the same.

Useful Distraction posted:

Ants can pass the mirror test.

Android Apocalypse posted:

Whelp that answers that question. Goombas are traditionally circumcised.

Lil Swamp Booger Baby posted:

The point of the mirror test, which people don't go through enough effort to understand, is that the animal displays an awareness of the mirror itself and that its reflection represents its own physical body, which when acted upon can be changed, it also then is necessary for the animal to have a baseline comprehension of what it looks like. That's why it's done by having a dot or object placed on the animal which the animal is intended to inspect if it passes the test since it can recognize then that the object or dot is not part of its regular, perceived self, if the animal doesn't respond to that dot, it fails. Cats almost always fail. Hence why it's an (incredibly flawed) metric for self awareness. It's also an old an arbitrary metric so acting all hard up that you've beaten those pesky scientists is goofy as hell. In the videos the cats aren't reacting to themselves or changes in their physical self, but to other objects in the reflection which they have comprehension enough to understand is a reflection, but that isn't even close to being the same as being able to assess changes or have cognizant memory or understanding of the state of self. Part of the mirror test is recognizing that the dot placed on you is alien to your body, not anyone else's, so a cat realizing that a reflection is inaccurate to its owner, an outside entity, displays awareness of change and object memory that tons of animals have but isn't necessarily an awareness of the state of your own body. Again, it's not about realizing that reflections represent objects or that those objects have place outside the mirror, but an ability to assess the normal state of one's self and notice aberrations. The mirror test also initially requires a comprehension that the object causing a reflection is in fact a mirror. Holding a polished, perfect mirror up to an animal that understands reflections can still fool it since it doesn't know it's a mirror, whereas something like reflections in water are recognizable as being on a familiar reflective surface. So familiarity to reflective objects is another factor. House cats are familiar with mirrors and cameras, thus learned the rules of them, still doesn't mean they'd pass the mirror test (which time and time again, when done with the actual metric of the test, they fail.)

Also the cat might just be looking to its owner which is holding it for help, so it's already tainted as any sort of proof by that alone. Let alone a stupid filter that is probably massive overstimulation and terrifying to them. Regardless the mirror test is flawed since even if an animal doesn't pass it, animals have other, capable abilities to make distinctions between their own selves and others while also maintaining a concept of self, than just visually.

And that's why you shouldn't listen to Twitter people about basic animal behavior you take in your first year of Vet school.

EDIT: An easy way to think of it is you waking up, looking in the mirror, seeing you have a pimple in a spot you didn't before. That requires an awareness of the state of your physical self and the recognition that the pimple is a change in that state of yourself.
This has nothing to do with your friend's reflection suddenly changing into a demon and scaring the poo poo out of you.

LifeSunDeath posted:

Lil Swamp Booger Baby posted:

The point of the mirror test, which people don't go through enough effort to understand, is that the animal displays an awareness of the mirror itself and that its reflection represents its own physical body, which when acted upon can be changed, it also then is necessary for the animal to have a baseline comprehension of what it looks like. That's why it's done by having a dot or object placed on the animal which the animal is intended to inspect if it passes the test since it can recognize then that the object or dot is not part of its regular, perceived self, if the animal doesn't respond to that dot, it fails. Cats almost always fail. Hence why it's an (incredibly flawed) metric for self awareness. It's also an old an arbitrary metric so acting all hard up that you've beaten those pesky scientists is goofy as hell. In the videos the cats aren't reacting to themselves or changes in their physical self, but to other objects in the reflection which they have comprehension enough to understand is a reflection, but that isn't even close to being the same as being able to assess changes or have cognizant memory or understanding of the state of self. Part of the mirror test is recognizing that the dot placed on you is alien to your body, not anyone else's, so a cat realizing that a reflection is inaccurate to its owner, an outside entity, displays awareness of change and object memory that tons of animals have but isn't necessarily an awareness of the state of your own body. Again, it's not about realizing that reflections represent objects or that those objects have place outside the mirror, but an ability to assess the normal state of one's self and notice aberrations. The mirror test also initially requires a comprehension that the object causing a reflection is in fact a mirror. Holding a polished, perfect mirror up to an animal that understands reflections can still fool it since it doesn't know it's a mirror, whereas something like reflections in water are recognizable as being on a familiar reflective surface. So familiarity to reflective objects is another factor. House cats are familiar with mirrors and cameras, thus learned the rules of them, still doesn't mean they'd pass the mirror test (which time and time again, when done with the actual metric of the test, they fail.)

Also the cat might just be looking to its owner which is holding it for help, so it's already tainted as any sort of proof by that alone. Let alone a stupid filter that is probably massive overstimulation and terrifying to them. Regardless the mirror test is flawed since even if an animal doesn't pass it, animals have other, capable abilities to make distinctions between their own selves and others while also maintaining a concept of self, than just visually.

And that's why you shouldn't listen to Twitter people about basic animal behavior you take in your first year of Vet school.

EDIT: An easy way to think of it is you waking up, looking in the mirror, seeing you have a pimple in a spot you didn't before. That requires an awareness of the state of your physical self and the recognition that the pimple is a change in that state of yourself.
This has nothing to do with your friend's reflection suddenly changing into a demon and scaring the poo poo out of you.

Inceltown posted:

The fact that scientists didn't know cats could recognise themselves in a mirror is baffling to me. I've had a few cats in my time and none of them struggled with "holy poo poo, that's me but I'm here".

tax

Fartbox posted:

As previously explained, scientists are dumb

Lil Swamp Booger Baby posted:

The point of the mirror test, which people don't go through enough effort to understand, is that the animal displays an awareness of the mirror itself and that its reflection represents its own physical body, which when acted upon can be changed, it also then is necessary for the animal to have a baseline comprehension of what it looks like. That's why it's done by having a dot or object placed on the animal which the animal is intended to inspect if it passes the test since it can recognize then that the object or dot is not part of its regular, perceived self, if the animal doesn't respond to that dot, it fails. Cats almost always fail. Hence why it's an (incredibly flawed) metric for self awareness. It's also an old an arbitrary metric so acting all hard up that you've beaten those pesky scientists is goofy as hell. In the videos the cats aren't reacting to themselves or changes in their physical self, but to other objects in the reflection which they have comprehension enough to understand is a reflection, but that isn't even close to being the same as being able to assess changes or have cognizant memory or understanding of the state of self. Part of the mirror test is recognizing that the dot placed on you is alien to your body, not anyone else's, so a cat realizing that a reflection is inaccurate to its owner, an outside entity, displays awareness of change and object memory that tons of animals have but isn't necessarily an awareness of the state of your own body. Again, it's not about realizing that reflections represent objects or that those objects have place outside the mirror, but an ability to assess the normal state of one's self and notice aberrations. The mirror test also initially requires a comprehension that the object causing a reflection is in fact a mirror. Holding a polished, perfect mirror up to an animal that understands reflections can still fool it since it doesn't know it's a mirror, whereas something like reflections in water are recognizable as being on a familiar reflective surface. So familiarity to reflective objects is another factor. House cats are familiar with mirrors and cameras, thus learned the rules of them, still doesn't mean they'd pass the mirror test (which time and time again, when done with the actual metric of the test, they fail.)

Also the cat might just be looking to its owner which is holding it for help, so it's already tainted as any sort of proof by that alone. Let alone a stupid filter that is probably massive overstimulation and terrifying to them. Regardless the mirror test is flawed since even if an animal doesn't pass it, animals have other, capable abilities to make distinctions between their own selves and others while also maintaining a concept of self, than just visually.

And that's why you shouldn't listen to Twitter people about basic animal behavior you take in your first year of Vet school.

EDIT: An easy way to think of it is you waking up, looking in the mirror, seeing you have a pimple in a spot you didn't before. That requires an awareness of the state of your physical self and the recognition that the pimple is a change in that state of yourself.
This has nothing to do with your friend's reflection suddenly changing into a demon and scaring the poo poo out of you.

Ornamental Dingbat posted:

Android Apocalypse posted:

Unrelated curse:

Pissed Ape Sexist posted:

Android Apocalypse posted:

Whelp that answers that question. Goombas are traditionally circumcised.

Unrelated curse:

ultrafilter posted:

That's The Onion.

Cursed tax:

bushisms.txt posted:

2/2 because one poo poo isn't enough



That name

bushisms.txt posted:

2/2 because one poo poo isn't enough



That name