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Sarsapariller posted:Any time you doubt that the crowdfunding numbers are real, or that there could be so many gullible nerds willing to pull out their wallets to the tune of two hundred dollars right now for a game that has shown no signs of going anywhere in the past 4 years, please consider the following case study. So that raises the question: can this ever stop on its own? How many more years of nothing need to happen, how many more compromises, how much more completely broken poo poo? Or does this have to come to a hard stop due to an external force acting against it?
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Dec 12, 2019 20:09
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It's wild that the average experience of SC is a steady progression from "this seems like a scam lol" to "having investigated further, it's much worse than I thought".
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Dec 12, 2019 20:10
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Popete posted:The idea that players are going to come to your ship to purchase stuff during the couple hours you might be logged in at night and not just try and blow you up is already laughable. None of it holds up to five minutes of scrutiny. Why would you ever buy stock items from a player? Presumably they will have to have bought them from an NPC and then offered them at a markup, making it cheaper to just go to the same NPC? I guess if there was a long distance trip involved you might use the space mall, but since the game is one star system wide... How would selling to NPC's work? If you could buy stock poo poo and sell it at any markup and have a guarantee that bots are going to land and buy your poo poo, didn't CIG just break the economy? The whole game would just become farms of these malls extracting fresh money from bots. If you buy stuff from the Mall does it transfer to your inventory? If you move the boxes out of your inventory do they become property of the mall again, a-la the way inventory currently works in the actual game? Has any of this even remotely taken into consideration the way the actual game mechanics work right now? What is the ETA on any of this given that in year seven there is still no NPC ship traffic that's not generated in single locations for missions? Is it even on the roadmap or is this another Endeavor/Orion/Starliner/Hull-C situation? --- That's the part that makes me legitimately angry- it's all so transparently phony. They have never backed any of this horseshit up, but nobody in the community has the ability to reason critically anymore.
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Dec 12, 2019 20:13
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Popete posted:The idea that players are going to come to your ship to purchase stuff during the couple hours you might be logged in at night and not just try and blow you up is already laughable. To be honest the whole more than 50 people on an instance thing alone just seems very improbable.
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Dec 12, 2019 20:15
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It is descending into the depths of madness if you try to analyze how any of this stuff would work. On the face of it it's so simple, it's a player trading outpost. Sounds fun! But given any level of thought in order for it to work requires so much other stuff to be in the game and working properly that it quickly turns into a pure fantasy that is clearly not going to be implemented in game for a very long time if ever.
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Dec 12, 2019 20:17
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jarlywarly posted:To be honest the whole more than 50 people on an instance thing alone just seems very improbable. This is the thing I always come back to when discussing CIG and it's largest problem by far. Cause you can point to a hundred thousands reasons why it's pure fantasy (the trading outpost ship we are discussing now being a good example) but ultimately all the bullshit dreams CIG is selling hinges on one major factor and that is having a large player count on a single server and they are nowhere close to getting that working so the rest of it isn't even worth discussing.
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Dec 12, 2019 20:19
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Popete posted:It is descending into the depths of madness if you try to analyze how any of this stuff would work. On the face of it it's so simple, it's a player trading outpost. Sounds fun! But given any level of thought in order for it to work requires so much other stuff to be in the game and working properly that it quickly turns into a pure fantasy that is clearly not going to be implemented in game for a very long time if ever. The decriptions of the outpost are just vague enough to allow the backers to individually run with whatever interpretation fits their personal fantasy. Star Citizen has found a way to monetize the impossible: the less real something is, the more people will pay for it.
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Dec 12, 2019 20:24
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Scruffpuff posted:So that raises the question: can this ever stop on its own? How many more years of nothing need to happen, how many more compromises, how much more completely broken poo poo? Or does this have to come to a hard stop due to an external force acting against it? Without external forces acting, it'll probably be another 5 years or so before it even starts to stop, and I'm pretty sure the true believers will go to their graves dreaming of railguns
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Dec 12, 2019 20:25
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Scruffpuff posted:So that raises the question: can this ever stop on its own? How many more years of nothing need to happen, how many more compromises, how much more completely broken poo poo? Or does this have to come to a hard stop due to an external force acting against it? Some people on the inside are just going to take the money and run, misappropriate funds or some stupid poo poo. I'm pretty sure there's more than one person who'd rather just cash in a big fat retirement check than work on a nonexistent video game for the rest of their life.
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Dec 12, 2019 20:28
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Sabreseven posted:The "Have a nice day" speech when entering and leaving ports always used to crack me up, soooooo out of place. That cracked me up too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UunQXXxAWY&t=22s
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Dec 12, 2019 20:29
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So now that the entire media complex, and the normal gaming community, has realized what Star Citizen is, and they're not launching legal disputes against people who say Mean Things™, I have to wonder what CIG's end game is. It was one thing in 2014 or 2015 to be part of the corporate machine at CIG and trying to claim visionary underdog status, but in 2019? The morale has to be unbelievably bad, when any given day you'll come home to relax and read another story about the scam you're going back to continue working for the next morning. Soul-destroying.
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Dec 12, 2019 20:31
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The only way I see for the Space Mall to work is as a transshipment point. Player miners could dump off ore in the carrier and other players could ship it. Or players could buy drugs from illegal ports and stockpile them in your space mall awaiting better market conditions or something. You don't really need shops for that though, and THEY REMOVED THE CARGO HOLD! It can't work.
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Dec 12, 2019 20:33
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:The only way I see for the Space Mall to work is as a transshipment point. Player miners could dump off ore in the carrier and other players could ship it. Or players could buy drugs from illegal ports and stockpile them in your space mall awaiting better market conditions or something. You don't really need shops for that though, and THEY REMOVED THE CARGO HOLD! Nothing like this works in a game the size of a postage stamp. It can work in huge games like EVE, but for anything to even appear to work in Star Citizen everyone has to fake it and playact it all out, like Rex did. All he did was get grown men to play Barbie dolls in space, and set up all his little figurines in just the right place to make it look like they were playing a game. Every ship CIG announces is just one more variant of the Barbie Dream House.
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Dec 12, 2019 20:36
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Popete posted:Is there any worse portent for a game when a review has the word "potential" in it? Anytime I look at an EA game on Steam and a bunch of the reviews say something about how much "potential" it has it's pretty much automatically a no buy. It has so much potential energy waiting to be released when it comes back down to reality.
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Dec 12, 2019 20:40
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Sarsapariller posted:None of it holds up to five minutes of scrutiny. Wait. Are you actually asking if anyone at CIG or any of the backers have actually thought how this will all work?
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Dec 12, 2019 20:41
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Even then, the ship has to sit in one place. Are you going to just hang out and pretend to be a fabulously savvy businessman or will it end up like those lovely Korean MMOs that let a player park their chara in town and just shout spam selling crap?
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Dec 12, 2019 20:43
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Agony Aunt posted:Wait. Are you actually asking if anyone at CIG or any of the backers have actually thought how this will all work? Hold up a second. I thought Star Citizen was a perpetual development grift game. Are you telling me there's more to it than that?
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Dec 12, 2019 20:46
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Scruffpuff posted:The decriptions of the outpost are just vague enough to allow the backers to individually run with whatever interpretation fits their personal fantasy. Star Citizen has found a way to monetize the impossible: the less real something is, the more people will pay for it. and you know what makes the sale of infinite dreams possible? the fact that they chose space/the universe as their setting! how much poo poo could you sell untill you can fill a crater the size of skyrim? only so much until it becomes ridiculous. but space provides infinite room to sell infinite poo poo! also this way backers can justify their addiction by saying that naysayers and critics are just to small-minded to understand the infinite possibilities of spacetravel. in a nutshell: i think the space setting greatly helps in keeping this show going.
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Dec 12, 2019 20:49
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I enjoy CIG's confidence in selling more poo poo that relies on mechanics that don't exist, which in turn rely on foundational mechanics that aren't planned. All of which rely on basic engine mechanics that CIG can't get working. You know what to do, CIG, start selling Dyson sphere building kits and sun-seeding ships. Might as well go whole hog. When you can't do anything, might as well claim to be able to do everything!
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Dec 12, 2019 20:51
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Scruffpuff posted:Nothing like this works in a game the size of a postage stamp. It can work in huge games like EVE, but for anything to even appear to work in Star Citizen everyone has to fake it and playact it all out, like Rex did. All he did was get grown men to play Barbie dolls in space, and set up all his little figurines in just the right place to make it look like they were playing a game. speaking of Rex, I missed this nugget: https://twitter.com/Rexzilla/status/1190366887600951301?s=20 edit: I see the thread didn't miss it either but man, I just saw it today and holy moly that's some funny poo poo Asmodai_00 fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Dec 12, 2019 |
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Dec 12, 2019 20:52
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Asmodai_00 posted:speaking of Rex, I missed this nugget: Has he streamed any CIG content since the facebook move?
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Dec 12, 2019 21:02
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From the comments over there: 
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Dec 12, 2019 21:02
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Beexoffel posted:From the comments over there: Shroud is still running? Holy poo poo, who the gently caress is trying to play that thing?
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Dec 12, 2019 21:04
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monkeytek posted:Has he streamed any CIG content since the facebook move? Yeah but it's clearly not his focus since the new CoD came out.
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Dec 12, 2019 21:06
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How long until Joe Blubbers turns up?
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Dec 12, 2019 21:07
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Scruffpuff posted:Shroud is still running? Holy poo poo, who the gently caress is trying to play that thing? My favorite part of SotA was that, somehow, Shooter Jennings got involved
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Dec 12, 2019 21:13
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precision posted:My favorite part of SotA was that, somehow, Shooter Jennings got involved I didn't believe you until I just looked it up. I'll repeat something I've said before: I don't care much for this alternate timeline I seem to have slipped into some time in the last decade or so. Don't like it at all.
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Dec 12, 2019 21:22
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monkeytek posted:Has he streamed any CIG content since the facebook move? Not really, unless you count starting up his own cult; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBZBuSFczak edit:  You're not fan of the synergies that a pair of mediocre brands can provide?
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Dec 12, 2019 21:28
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Hav posted:Not really, unless you count starting up his own cult; Look on his Facebook page, he still streams SC about twice a week, sandwiched between CoD streams. He just did one yesterday.
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Dec 12, 2019 21:30
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Scruffpuff posted:I didn't believe you until I just looked it up. I'll repeat something I've said before: I don't care much for this alternate timeline I seem to have slipped into some time in the last decade or so. Don't like it at all. It's a wild ride baby
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Dec 12, 2019 21:38
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Rotten Red Rod posted:That's why the backers use the defense of "How is it a scam? Explain exactly how." Pedantic definition is one of the tactics; ultimately it has no effect on the outcomes of this whole thing, so it's not really worth bothering with the attempt to prove fraud other than most rules of Commerce (like the actual laws) require you to receive something other than a promissory note of a future value. Closest drat model you can get to this crowdfunding bullshit is that of shares in terms that the shares (or bonds) are largely valued based on a consensus opinion, but that's backed by around a hundred years of finance law that isn't actually the tightest regulatory structure on the planet. It's one of the reasons I'm happy watching this mess; the defenses being offered really don't match up to the simple reality that CiG is foundering, and has since the day after the Kickstarter hangover disappeared.
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Dec 12, 2019 21:40
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Yeah, like right now there's a debate going on in the comments of the Massively OP article about how SC's monetization is fine because you can spend thousands of dollars in other F2P MMOs. As if that comparison makes it any better...! But it's an aggravating thing to argue against, so in the end they give up. How fan dumping 31k makes it a bad model? You can spend A MILLION BUCKS to buy pets, mounts and gamecards from WoW shop or do the same in any MMO with a shop. So? Noone forces you there. Noonce forces you in SC. You get full access to SC PU with all its features and content for 40$ ---- So what exactly is wrong with reliance on whaling to support game development? Whole MMORPG industry relies on whaling. Because 99% MMOs are F2P and only like 5% of players do purchases that generate profits. Those players that we call whales. So why noone cares about other MMOs but everyone looses their mind about Star Citizen? Tell me, Bree. Seriously. This bullshit. Rotten Red Rod fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Dec 12, 2019 |
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Dec 12, 2019 21:44
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Rotten Red Rod posted:Look on his Facebook page... You can't *make* me. Rotten Red Rod posted:...he still streams SC about twice a week, sandwiched between CoD streams. He just did one yesterday. Facebook gets some exclusive Rexshilla. This is good for Mr Lisle and Star Citizen.
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Dec 12, 2019 21:45
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"How is spending money on a game that demonstrably exists any different from spending money on SC?" Lmao
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Dec 12, 2019 21:55
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The merchant outpost ship reminds me of how FFXIV had player-owned NPCs that would stand around in town to sell your goods. "Had" in the sense that it was in the 1.0 version that was so bad it almost sank the franchise. Fortunately SquareEnix hadn't taken actual money from customers, so they were free to discard it in the franchise-saving 2.0 version.
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Dec 12, 2019 22:09
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Popete posted:It is descending into the depths of madness if you try to analyze how any of this stuff would work. On the face of it it's so simple, it's a player trading outpost. Sounds fun! But given any level of thought in order for it to work requires so much other stuff to be in the game and working properly that it quickly turns into a pure fantasy that is clearly not going to be implemented in game for a very long time if ever. I remember once reading an article about all the work required to design how doors work in a multiplayer game. All the design considerations and edge cases and unforeseen bs they had to deal with. For doors. (this was well before showed us just how deadly they are) But these guys? "we'll just drop a mall, add some dropdown menus and it'll all work"
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Dec 12, 2019 22:09
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AngusPodgorny posted:The merchant outpost ship reminds me of how FFXIV had player-owned NPCs that would stand around in town to sell your goods. "Had" in the sense that it was in the 1.0 version that was so bad it almost sank the franchise. Fortunately SquareEnix hadn't taken actual money from customers, so they were free to discard it in the franchise-saving 2.0 version. Hah, Elder Scrolls Online isn't much better in this regard. You gotta be in a guild to buy or sell stuff, and you can only list stuff on a guild trader, and to find a particular item you want to buy, you have to go through every single loving guild trader in the world and hope it's on a public guild trader since the private ones are your guild only. So incredibly rear end backwards and the reason I quit playing it.
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Dec 12, 2019 22:26
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Dooguk posted:How long until Joe Blubbers turns up? Oh good grief, give me a few minutes until the coffee heats up.
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Dec 12, 2019 22:37
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C-Bangin' it 
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Hav posted:Not really, unless you count starting up his own cult; https://youtu.be/GBZBuSFczak?t=573 
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Dec 12, 2019 22:42
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Welcome to the
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Scruffpuff posted:So that raises the question: can this ever stop on its own? How many more years of nothing need to happen, how many more compromises, how much more completely broken poo poo? Or does this have to come to a hard stop due to an external force acting against it? In terms of the "when will people snap out of it?" nature of your question - they do every day. You just tend not to see many posts on reddit because why would you. They'll hate you, you'll feel dumb, and it's easier to vanish and pretend you never were into it. In the case of true believers this day will never come. When the final bell tolls they'll say they were happy to just be a part of something so ambitious. This totally-not-a-scam project to deliver dreams.txt was just killed before its time by the evils of the world. Instead of posting about how great SC will be in every youtube comment section they'll post how great it would have been if not for the bad men.
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Dec 12, 2019 22:46
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