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Personally think it was two things: 1. That's a long rear end day. Getting a good night sleep before sending Articles to the floor isn't the worst idea logically. 2. All we would have heard tomorrow is "Dems pushed thru impeachment in the dead of night!!!!"
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Dec 13, 2019 05:30
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oxsnard posted:Yep the plan was to go all night and force the Dems to push into next week. Something is up. If Mitch actually had it all worked out like he claims they wouldn't be doing this i mean i dont think there is a plan but i do think even the house ghouls know none of this poo poo will end well and are just trying to keep this poo poo going so it doesnt get worse for them.
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Dec 13, 2019 05:37
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LegendaryFrog posted:The question is: is there even one time that Republicans have faced negative consequences for taking the stance of “yes I will lie, cheat, and steal, but I will do it for OUR team!”? The elections of 2018 and 19
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Dec 13, 2019 05:41
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Charlz Guybon posted:The elections of 2018 and 19
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Dec 13, 2019 06:29
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SalTheBard posted:I wasn't interested in politics when Clinton got impeached but was it similar to this? Did Dems just Stonewall and bloviate non stop? I don't know about that, but I was 18 when the Clinton thing was going on and everyone at school and at my professional level job were all saying, "This is stupid, right? It was a goddamn blowjob." Clinton was wildly popular and literally no one I knew during that time cared at all and thought the entire thing was stupid. I didn't watch the day to day hearing back then like I do now, but the basic consensus was it was very dumb. Then Al Gore got pissy about it and refused to let the wildly popular president campaign for him and then the world ended. The Clinton impeachment and the Trump impeachment are pretty much not analogous in any way for so many reasons.
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Dec 13, 2019 06:39
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1glitch0 posted:I don't know about that, but I was 18 when the Clinton thing was going on and everyone at school and at my professional level job were all saying, "This is stupid, right? It was a goddamn blowjob." Clinton was wildly popular and literally no one I knew during that time cared at all and thought the entire thing was stupid. I didn't watch the day to day hearing back then like I do now, but the basic consensus was it was very dumb. It being stupid and petty was the general conscious at the time. Granted the Right Wing Media Echo Chamber™ was still in it's infancy at that time. You had Rush and some lesser known AM radio idiots but that was the extent of it. A few years later Fox had become the machine it became. A big reason for that happening is actually Turner being bought by AOL-Timer/Warner. Without Ted Turner backing CNN and in turn Headline News as well both channels went from being effectively public service stations bringing straight news to needing to get big ratings and make money. Hence the race to the bottom in terms of news coverage and the start of the 24 hour news cycle. Fox got their winning strategy early, which everyone else followed with their own spin, and used that advantage to turn a generation of people into mindless, brainwashed idiots. Gore not wanting to have Clinton campaign for him was a calculated risked. I have read a lot of interviews about the thinking behind it. The impeachment actually wasn't the biggest reason why he didn't have him stump for him, although it was part of the reasoning. The biggest reasoning was they felt that Clinton would overshadow Gore, which they were likely right. It is also why Hillary tried to avoid having Obama campaign for her as well, again a mistake in hindsight. We would be in a VERY different world if Ted Turner had not sold Turner. It is one of the major turning points in all media and will be looked at by historians as much more important than we realize now.
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Dec 13, 2019 07:06
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Can you accuse a news network of treason if you have gigantic amounts of evidence to back it up? And then shut them down?
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Dec 13, 2019 07:12
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Djarum posted:It being stupid and petty was the general conscious at the time. Granted the Right Wing Media Echo Chamber™ was still in it's infancy at that time. You had Rush and some lesser known AM radio idiots but that was the extent of it. A few years later Fox had become the machine it became. A big reason for that happening is actually Turner being bought by AOL-Timer/Warner. Without Ted Turner backing CNN and in turn Headline News as well both channels went from being effectively public service stations bringing straight news to needing to get big ratings and make money. Hence the race to the bottom in terms of news coverage and the start of the 24 hour news cycle. Fox got their winning strategy early, which everyone else followed with their own spin, and used that advantage to turn a generation of people into mindless, brainwashed idiots. Everything I've read at the time said that the primary reason for Gore turning on Clinton was because he was kept in the dark about the Lewinsky stuff and was simply bitter about it. I could be wrong, tho. I totally agree that Turner losing control of CNN was way more gigantic than people have ever really understood. CNN was somewhat respectable when Turner had control. When he sold it the entire thing went into decline. Much more importantly than the start of the decline of cable news that has failed the entire country in every way, him selling also destroyed the American pro wrestling industry at the same time. I'm obviously joking about the latter, but a world where a competent news network competed against Fox News, and WWE was sent into bankruptcy before elevating Donald Trump and taking Saudi blood money would be a much better world.
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Dec 13, 2019 07:30
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I'm pissed I missed out on that gang tag, that poo poo is great.
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Dec 13, 2019 07:42
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1glitch0 posted:Everything I've read at the time said that the primary reason for Gore turning on Clinton was because he was kept in the dark about the Lewinsky stuff and was simply bitter about it. I could be wrong, tho. There was a bit of that but from interviews with the people running the campaign that was an easier thing to say publicly than saying that Gore was so easily overshadowed. It makes sense really. Granted Gore made a ton of boneheaded moves during that race. Lieberman being the VP just for starters alienated a lot of people on the left that voted for Nader which effectively lost the election for him. Also him not declaring victory that night and allowing Bush and the GOP to lay the groundwork to take the election was also stupid. Ted Turner, for his faults and he has had a few, generally has done more good for the United States than most people over the last 40 years. It is an utter shame what happened to almost all of his life's work and how badly it was all handled. His diagnosis recently is an even sadder thing.
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Dec 13, 2019 07:52
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The whole day was loving exhausting and I don't blame Nadler for getting short with people at the end. I've been a governance chair (in a much lower stakes thing for sure) and the "markup" and wordsmithing makes everyone involved want to throw themselves out a window. And that's in an association that doesn't have the loving *asinine* pro forma amendment bullshit. (that's the "strike the last word" poo poo) "Pretending" you want to make an amendment and using your five minutes to talk about whatever garbage you want shouldn't even be a thing the chair allows - either you comment on the real amendment up for discussion or you shut the gently caress up. Wouldn't stop the republicans from making endless amendments just to waste time and calling for a goddamn roll call for every vote. Nice to know that bullshit never ends no matter what level of government you're at. edit: ROFL someone on MSNBC straight up called Collins a "screeching histrionic drama queen" LegionAreI fucked around with this message at 08:17 on Dec 13, 2019 |
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Dec 13, 2019 08:14
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LegionAreI posted:The whole day was loving exhausting and I don't blame Nadler for getting short with people at the end. I've been a governance chair (in a much lower stakes thing for sure) and the "markup" and wordsmithing makes everyone involved want to throw themselves out a window. And that's in an association that doesn't have the loving *asinine* pro forma amendment bullshit. (that's the "strike the last word" poo poo) "Pretending" you want to make an amendment and using your five minutes to talk about whatever garbage you want shouldn't even be a thing the chair allows - either you comment on the real amendment up for discussion or you shut the gently caress up. The other thing too is that Republicans were already spending a majority of their time screeching about "no evidence" and "this is being rammed through as fast as possible." Had Nadler reigned that poo poo in, all we'd get would be reporting about how he was being tyrannical and won't somebody think of the poor Republicans who control loving everything.
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Dec 13, 2019 08:26
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Meridian posted:The other thing too is that Republicans were already spending a majority of their time screeching about "no evidence" and "this is being rammed through as fast as possible." Had Nadler reigned that poo poo in, all we'd get would be reporting about how he was being tyrannical and won't somebody think of the poor Republicans who control loving everything. Oh he definitely would have been hosed if he smacked them down about it, it's more that the rule is completely stupid in the first place and has no purpose other than to let people grandstand. Which means nobody is ever going to change it because if there's one thing all politicians can agree on, it's that grandstanding is wonderful. I do think he did well with the "minority day of witnesses" or whatever bullshit Collins wouldn't shut up about for both judiciary hearings. There wasn't a way to win that one either, but he did his due diligence and was pretty calm about it. It's utterly infuriating when someone tries to gently caress you with the bylaws or rulebook, and when someone did it to me I can't say I handled it as well as he did. Nadler has all the charisma of a brick wall, but he's keeping it together at least. I do hope they pick someone more fired up to run the "prosecution." Preferably Schiff since that'd make Trump pop a blood vessel, but I'd take Jackson-Lee or Swalwell.
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Dec 13, 2019 08:38
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LegionAreI posted:Oh he definitely would have been hosed if he smacked them down about it, it's more that the rule is completely stupid in the first place and has no purpose other than to let people grandstand. Which means nobody is ever going to change it because if there's one thing all politicians can agree on, it's that grandstanding is wonderful. I think Nadler acting like Terminator worked to his credit. All of the Republicans and honestly a lot of Democrats went into angry yelling, which, regardless of how salient the point, never looks good. Nadler presented this whole thing like the foregone conclusion that it is. I'd have liked more from the Democrats actually poking holes in the stuff the Republicans were saying since apparently the facts alone mean nothing, but, you can't have it all.
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Dec 13, 2019 08:43
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LegionAreI posted:Oh he definitely would have been hosed if he smacked them down about it, it's more that the rule is completely stupid in the first place and has no purpose other than to let people grandstand. Which means nobody is ever going to change it because if there's one thing all politicians can agree on, it's that grandstanding is wonderful. Schiff would be the best one to run the trial. Swalwell is great but he is best used as an assassin role where you bring him out to kill something dead. Basically he does what Gym Jordan and Gaetz are supposed to be doing if they weren't utterly incompetent. Really the best thing for the Democrats to do is just be bored with the GOP's huff and puffs since if you engage that becomes the story. There will be more than enough fireworks in the Senate despite what Moscow Mitch wants.
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Dec 13, 2019 09:00
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PBS Youtube stream of this morning's vote.
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Dec 13, 2019 16:04
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Judiciary vote is happening now, they went right into it
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Dec 13, 2019 16:06
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Gohmert with a very dramatic, "...my vote is NO" edit: and then at the end has the clerk confirm he voted no hahaha
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Dec 13, 2019 16:07
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Gohmert yelling IS MAH VOTE RECORDED He yelled NO so of course it was
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Dec 13, 2019 16:07
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the Republicans on the committee seem so disapointed in us all....
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Dec 13, 2019 16:08
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StrangersInTheNight posted:Gohmert yelling IS MAH VOTE RECORDED Notice me daddy
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Dec 13, 2019 16:08
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I can't get over how when I tabbed over to look at the roll call that when they got to the GOP that it started by panning right through this pile of old white dudes who all look like interchangeable wrinkled thumbs. Seems to sum it up.
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Dec 13, 2019 16:10
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Wait who was that kid
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Dec 13, 2019 16:10
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cr0y posted:Wait who was that kid Someone's son
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Dec 13, 2019 16:11
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....I am pissed that repubs made us go through 14 hours of hell for that
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Dec 13, 2019 16:11
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bring your child to impeachment hearing day
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Dec 13, 2019 16:13
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Collins is a petulant child slamming his chair back and huffing off because he didn't ASK to be BORN, GOD DADEhud posted:bring your child to impeachment hearing day *mumble* "Mr. Fauntleroy votes 'Minecraft rules' " Pissed Ape Sexist fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Dec 13, 2019 |
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Dec 13, 2019 16:13
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Ehud posted:bring your child to impeachment hearing day I have no issue with this
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Dec 13, 2019 16:14
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StrangersInTheNight posted:....I am pissed that repubs made us go through 14 hours of hell for that Again it's all grandstanding for Der fuhrer. They don't care about how anybody in America views them, just that they'll get soundbites on Fox News and be spared a whiny Trump tweet
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Dec 13, 2019 16:25
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Ehud posted:Gohmert with a very dramatic, "...my vote is NO" I actually laughed out loud at that. Gohmert is parody in the flesh.
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Dec 13, 2019 16:26
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If republicans get annihilated in the 2020 elections, will they continue with their disingenuous "everything you do is partisan" garbage? I hate that it's the dems who are being partisan because not a single rep defects, but the reps aren't being partisan when their garbage passes along party lines.
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Dec 13, 2019 16:29
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If repubs get outnumbered, they will just switch to the Persecuted Minority Party. There's literally no winning in that regard bc it's not about the reality of their situation, but what will get them the most play This is also why they don't believe other mimorities about everything. They think being persecuted is just a card to play, not a real thing people experience.
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Dec 13, 2019 16:41
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Faustian Bargain posted:If republicans get annihilated in the 2020 elections, will they continue with their disingenuous "everything you do is partisan" garbage? I hate that it's the dems who are being partisan because not a single rep defects, but the reps aren't being partisan when their garbage passes along party lines. Absolutely yes they will, and they'll have their aging base feeling persecuted and marginalized to further facilitate that narrative. The fact that it never changes is a testament to how effective it is-- if it didn't somehow work every time they run the play they'd change. Once you eliminate actual ethical consistency and accountability from an entire party it's inevitable. There are two teams but one is a rude parody of both the other team and of the game itself.
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Dec 13, 2019 16:43
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StrangersInTheNight posted:If repubs get outnumbered, they will just switch to the Persecuted Minority Party. There's literally no winning.
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Dec 13, 2019 16:43
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StrangersInTheNight posted:If repubs get outnumbered, they will just switch to the Persecuted Minority Party. There's literally no winning in that regard bc it's not about the reality of their situation, but what will get them the most play Even as the majority they have not abandoned the persecution complex.
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Dec 13, 2019 16:48
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Doctor Butts posted:Even as the majority they have not abandoned the persecution complex. They don't know how. Look at Fox News (not literally, poo poo's bad for you). Despite the victories in 2016 they just would not stop complaining about how persecuted Conservatives were.
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Dec 13, 2019 16:51
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Angry_Ed posted:They don't know how. Look at Fox News (not literally, poo poo's bad for you). Despite the victories in 2016 they just would not stop complaining about how persecuted Conservatives were. The fundamental doctrine of the Republican party is that racists are being persecuted for not being able to do and say racist things. Conservatives accept that racism is bad, but their solution is to redefine racism to be something they're not, rather than purge themselves of it.
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Dec 13, 2019 16:56
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Deteriorata posted:Conservatives accept that racism is bad, but their solution is to redefine racism to be something they're not, rather than purge themselves of it. Well one of them is achievable, so no poo poo that's the one they're going to do, rather than accept the dissolution of their ideology.....
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Dec 13, 2019 16:57
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Faustian Bargain posted:Oh good it's just like anyone running against Trump is going to be called an evil socialist, even someone like Biden. So? Every dem candidate is the "most socialist ever".
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Dec 13, 2019 16:59
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eke out posted:https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1205342040369848322 Maybe if they hadn't wasted all loving day yesterday with petty bullshit they wouldn't have needed to extend it today you loving asshats.
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Dec 13, 2019 17:22
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