Nice piece of fish posted:Great choice, particularly if you vote left. Red party needs your vote to gently caress over the right wing. Isn't Norway more right wing than the UK in general or is that more BS I read online somewhere? 276. The number of extra seats labour could have done with last night.
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Dec 13, 2019 09:14
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Not British, but after watching yet another election in yet another country go the same way, i.e. the left getting trounced because of the non-university-educated turning sharply to the nationalist right, I'm coming around to the idea that class politics might just be straight up dead. It's been, what, decades since a class-based message focused on economic justice worked in any western country. Which, you know. gently caress. 
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Dec 13, 2019 09:15
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Azza Bamboo posted:I'm not going to theorise as to why we lost. Disasters on this scale are usually caused by more than one failure point. I'm going to make one isolated criticism about the message, but you've heard this criticism before, and you've hated this criticism before. In short: Let's not make it complicated. the questions here - how do you message to make policies fit into a pre-existing framework of probably-inconsistent cognitive biases (also is this even possible), is it possible to change those biases or are we stuck waiting for the people with those biases to die (or for conditions to change and introduce new biases), and how do you deal with an intrinsically-hostile media with no interest in putting your message across and every interest in reinforcing said biases
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Dec 13, 2019 09:15
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Xaerael posted:Unless you’re in an odd area, the sector should become more vital than ever over the next few years. It's horrible to say this but you should edit that out
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Dec 13, 2019 09:15
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Not So Fast posted:Change UK was blown out, although Sam Gyimah managed to let the Tories take Kensington. Good riddance to CUK, but sucks about Kensington. I also saw the squirrels long nightmare is now over, so at least that's something. drat, Ian Murray's the last Scot Lab standing.
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Dec 13, 2019 09:15
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I mean, May made a big song and dance about how losing...four seats ot whatever, and she lost more, and still limped on for two years, when she should have stepped aside as leader. Corbyn has done his drat best, and dragged the party and discourse leftwards, while enduring slander and libel that would have crushed a lesser man. Let's hope his successor is made of the same stuff. We've got to be there for our more vulnerable comrades.
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Dec 13, 2019 09:17
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Ohh btw did chukka umunna lose his seat? Please say yes
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Dec 13, 2019 09:17
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Seriously people, this is a great time to take a mental health break from politics, get into the cute thread or some uplifting DIY threads (five acres is my personal rec.) or a CYOA game. It's okay to step away for a bit and find new energy and fortitude. It's not over, this is the breakdown phase and there will be a buildup phase, but not yet. Take a well deserved break.
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Dec 13, 2019 09:17
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Still catching up. Condolences, UK goons.
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Dec 13, 2019 09:17
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Xaerael posted:Unless you’re in an odd area, the sector should become more vital than ever over the next few years. Liverpool. It'll become so much more vital but were already being starved, and now they don't have to even pretend to be nice
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Dec 13, 2019 09:18
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Chukkas finally going to get that "leader of a party" position he's always believed he's deserved now isn't he?
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Dec 13, 2019 09:18
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Well we got 12 more seats than it was looking like when I went to bed so that's... something still can't believe it
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Dec 13, 2019 09:18
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Going to stop doing any politics stuff at least for a month or so, solidarity to yall but I need to decompress and pretend that everything's going to be fine. See you around.
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Dec 13, 2019 09:19
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Nice piece of fish posted:Seriously people, this is a great time to take a mental health break from politics, get into the cute thread or some uplifting DIY threads (five acres is my personal rec.) or a CYOA game. This is fact. There's a lot of old people that will expire in the next 5 years. Don't forget to vote labour in 2024
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Dec 13, 2019 09:19
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qhat posted:Ohh btw did chukka umunna lose his seat? Please say yes He did, seat went to the Tories. Swinson lost her seat as well to the SNP. Small moments of brightness in a very dark night.
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Dec 13, 2019 09:19
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Christ I hate this. I hate him, I hate the absolute loving soulless shamelessness that allows him to say it, I preemptively hate the idiots who're going to take this as evidence that 'the jews hosed us over' or similar bullshit, I hate that that's what he wants to happen so they can do it again next time, just... all of it, I hate all of it.
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Dec 13, 2019 09:20
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Kin posted:Chukkas finally going to get that "leader of a party" position he's always believed he's deserved now isn't he? he doesn't have a seat, so, probably no
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Dec 13, 2019 09:20
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Honestly the past few years have taught me shitloads about Westminster style governments. I'll remember it for years to come.
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Dec 13, 2019 09:21
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It’s time to dump the ‘kinder, gentler politics’ approach. Humanity is fighting for its survival (both in terms of the species and in terms of its ethics). People need to keep themselves and those they care about safe, as we can’t expect those in power to do it.
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Dec 13, 2019 09:21
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qhat posted:Ohh btw did chukka ummuna lose his seat? Please say yes Yes. Barring the 3 results not yet updated, it was a CUKTIG wipeout.
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Dec 13, 2019 09:21
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CyberPingu posted:Isn't Norway more right wing than the UK in general or is that more BS I read online somewhere? Really don't think so? We have a right wing government, but the right got gutted last local elections and we have a viable communist party now constantly gaining popularity. The right wingers are desperately selling off public owned stuff, because they know the writing is on the wall. Still, we are pretty prosperous and nobody is going to touch our health service. We're doing okay. And we like british people, I think?
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Dec 13, 2019 09:21
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njsykora posted:He did, seat went to the Tories. Swinson lost her seat as well to the SNP. Small moments of brightness in a very dark night. loving yes. Great post overall, 10/10.
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Dec 13, 2019 09:21
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Jose posted:It's horrible to say this but you should edit that out My location? It’s not hard to dox me, I honestly don’t really care. Unless you mean something else, in which case I blame the misery of the morning for being dense.
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Dec 13, 2019 09:21
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Xaerael posted:My location? It’s not hard to dox me, I honestly don’t really care. Unless you mean something else, in which case I blame the misery of the morning for being dense. I wasn't sure if you had put job info in it
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Dec 13, 2019 09:22
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Labour campaign wasn't able to make the election not about Brexit, while Tories refused to talk about anything else. Combined with the respective leave and remain electoral pacts meant Labour got savaged for being in the middle. Referendum is the most rational approach but pragmatism doesn't win elections.
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Dec 13, 2019 09:22
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Well the election in NI went alright
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Dec 13, 2019 09:22
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The public believe supply-side economics despite the evidence, though I think this is mostly because they aren't challenged about it at all. They believe that taking the austerity medicine will make life better, because no-ones explaining to them that just because something tastes like poo poo it doesn't mean it helps them recover in the long term. They believe that Diane Abbot can't count, and that public spending is a bribe to get unemployed people to vote. They are very happy to shout about Communists never winning anything, despite communism never being offered. Regardless of Brexit which is a symptom of the problem anyway, people vote on their wallets and how they think they'll be better off in the long term, and we're not winning the argument on any of these points. It's simply for them to go 'well, the 1970s didn't work', why are we not hammering the point that the 2010's are loving worse under the 'economy smart' Conservatives. Crucially, they have to actually believe all that. You need the evidence, because in my experience people are receptive to the ideas if you can explain to them despite it being a logical argument that trickle-down economics doesn't perform at all. People still however aren't aware of this, and when I'm talking about this I'm talking about relatively well educated young people. It's fair to concede that you can't win if your figure-head doesn't resonate with the public, but whatever we do we can't do is concede the argument to 'austerity but red.' Brexit will be done in January, this will be what the next election is fought on now, and the change in perception needs to start early.
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Dec 13, 2019 09:23
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Pesmerga posted:It’s time to dump the ‘kinder, gentler politics’ approach. Humanity is fighting for its survival (both in terms of the species and in terms of its ethics). People need to keep themselves and those they care about safe, as we can’t expect those in power to do it.
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Dec 13, 2019 09:24
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Apraxin posted:Christ I hate this. The crazy poo poo is that I bet you most Jewish areas were voting for the anti-semitic party. Hm. Jews voting for anti-jew. Could there be any explanation for this? Hmmmmmm 🤔
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Dec 13, 2019 09:24
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I wonder if there's any level of austerity or the coming Hard Brexit privation that the public won't take How far down can we possibly go
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Dec 13, 2019 09:25
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Pesky Splinter posted:I mean, May made a big song and dance about how losing...four seats ot whatever, and she lost more, and still limped on for two years, when she should have stepped aside as leader. I agree insofar as his successor also needs to be able to withstand a loving hurricane, but it also needs to be someone who isn’t afraid of wrestling the Tories into the dirt and stamping on them when they get them there. But there also needs to be a real rethink of what Labour is and who it represents. I think a ‘workers party’ with its origins in the late 19th-early 20th century is doomed at this stage, the world has moved on and it’s struggling to find its place on it.
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Dec 13, 2019 09:25
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A few random thoughts on last night's results: As other posters have said, this was the election where party voting shifted decisively along Leave/ Remain lines, with pro-Remain cities and uni towns voting Labour and pro-Leave small town and rural areas voting Conservative, regardless of previous allegiences. Given that 2/3 of constituencies in 2016 voted Leave, this could only benefit the Tories. The key pivot point in the election was when the Brexit party stood down in pro-Tory voting areas. This allowed Leavers to unite behind a single candidate, while Remainers stayed split between Labour/ Lib Dems/ Greens. In this election the centre-ground has well and truly vanished. Initial results seem to indicate that approx 46% of the vote went to the Tories and 42% to Labour, with both parties increasing their share of the vote vs 2017 and the centre ground parties being squeezed down to 12-15% of the vote. From a Labour point of view, some positives (yes, really): Brexit is no longer a problem for Labour: it now belongs to the Tories 100% and they will entirely own the inevitable unpleasant consequences that ensue. Going forward, Labour can hold their current positions in the cities and reach out to the regions without constantly having to explain their Brexit position. Our immediate priority is to hold our nerve and not allow the leadership to be recaptured by the plp right who still (after 4 years of Corbyn!) have absolutely no alternative leader, direction or set of policies to sell the membership. A 'centrist' Labour leadership would inevitably end up trailing weakly after the Tories on policy, pleasing nobody and so this needs to be avoided. That was my 2 cents, thanks for reading 
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Dec 13, 2019 09:26
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https://twitter.com/tomilo/status/1205284333642244106?s=19
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Dec 13, 2019 09:27
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 Good, good, nothing to be concerned about.
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Dec 13, 2019 09:28
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Fingerless Gloves posted:Liverpool. It'll become so much more vital but were already being starved, and now they don't have to even pretend to be nice My birthplace! I don’t really know the local authority, though. What may happen is more of a reliance on charity funding, which isn’t too much of a bad thing. It’s just a bloody shame, as it shouldn’t be the case.
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Dec 13, 2019 09:28
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Will the papers wait until the New Year to splash on BoJo stories they’ve held back as the Labour stuff stops getting traction or d’you reckon we’ll get a Sunday this week?
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Dec 13, 2019 09:30
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everyone’s going to make a big deal of how Corbyn is stepping down now because he lost when iirc he announced he would be stepping down after the election whatever happens months ago Funny how he’s always simultaneously not charismatic enough and also the leader of a “cult of personality”. Hes more charismatic than robo-May, he can actually be genuine and funny and he always kept his cool, but no one actually cared about that. Nothing would happen if Labour made some super slick media manipulator rear end in a top hat into the leader except that they’d lose all their young voters again
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Dec 13, 2019 09:30
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qhat posted:This is fact. There's a lot of old people that will expire in the next 5 years. Don't forget to vote labour in 2024 And a bunch of late middle age people who are going to become more conservative as they get angry that the world is changing around them. We've heard the generational change argument everywhere for decades, and in the end the reactionary olds that die just get replaced by new ones, often even people who voted left in their youth. It's really more a function of age than generation, and with the demographics of western countries being what they are, we're all hosed.
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Dec 13, 2019 09:30
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Labour is increasingly seen as an ‘out of touch liberal elite’ in its so-called heartlands, and even with Brexit off the political agenda I don’t think that’s going to change. If Brexit is a disaster and thinks get even worse for people (which they will), they’ll look for the next scapegoat, and Johnson will be more than happy to provide one. It’ll be Labour Right v nationalist Labour Left, dogwhistling as hard as they loving can while McCluskey and Lavery shout that they should have taken a harder line against foreign workers.
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Dec 13, 2019 09:30
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Jose posted:I wasn't sure if you had put job info in it I put my workplace in, but honestly, it’d take 5 mins on google for someone determined to work it out anyway. I’m a big advocate for what my workplace does, and my real name is forever linked to my internet handle because I was semi successful in something nerdy 10 years ago.
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Dec 13, 2019 09:32
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