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EDIT: 283 is the seats Labour should have held, at least. The numbers may be a bit wonky cause A) they are from last night at 4AM when I woke up to check and B) I'm going by heart, but: - Tories: 12mil votes, 320 seats - Lab: 9mil votes, 170 seats - LD: 3mil votes, 8 seats FTTP being what it is, at a glance it looks like Brexit is more popular on average in most constituencies (compared to no brexit, 2nd ref, soft brexit, etc); and that the LDs managed to syphon away a ton of non-tories votes from Labour for very little gain (of course there is no real overlap between Corbyn policies and LD poo poo centrism, but a lot of uninformed young people / city dwellers that have voted LD would have probably had Labour as a second preference, certainly before the Tories). That Italian Guy fucked around with this message at 12:36 on Dec 13, 2019 |
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Dec 13, 2019 12:34
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Whole shitload of people going to die over the next five years. And the best we can hope for is making sure some of them are the ones who deserve it.
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Dec 13, 2019 12:34
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Jesus, never getting PR or AV completely hosed your country
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Dec 13, 2019 12:36
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ahmini posted:Boris' deal, which is the the same as May's with a dash of NI isolation, will go through and the UK will leave the EU by the end of January. Then a transitional period begins where we try and negotiate future EU relationship. BoJo seems to think this will be done by the end of 2020 but everyone knows it's impossible without major concessions like a customs union. Very real prospect of that we effectively NDB into total isolation then. Pesmerga posted:Yeah that’s not likely to happen after a historic majority where people seem to like ‘winner takes all’. Johnson’s got the majority to really gently caress with the boundaries and composition of the house now too.
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Dec 13, 2019 12:36
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So anyway who won the sweepstake?
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Dec 13, 2019 12:36
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Lol Lib Dem’s got a hard brexit
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Dec 13, 2019 12:37
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https://twitter.com/misslucyp/status/1205434816814039044
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Dec 13, 2019 12:37
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OwlFancier posted:I think I may be beaten, to be honest. Yeah, this is where I'm at. I know that it's cowardly and a dereliction of duty, but I don't know how I'm going to do this anymore. I'm not even looking for encouragement or nice replies or whatever. TBH I'm not even sure why I'm even typing this. It's not helpful
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Dec 13, 2019 12:38
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And again we vote labour and get the tories With friends like the english who needs enemies eh?
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Dec 13, 2019 12:39
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That Italian Guy posted:Don't lie to me again goons, not after Brexit and Trump! I really hope USPOL starts getting excited about Trump getting re-elected at this point. It may be the only way.
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Dec 13, 2019 12:42
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The sad part is that the Question of Brexit cannot be fundamentally answered by labour, so in a sense it has to be a Tory win
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Dec 13, 2019 12:42
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Braggart posted:
Scotland's gone. The tories will hold them hostage refusing to grant indyref until they lose power and then any lab gov will have to grant the snp one to get a majority. after that much winding up there's zero chance they don't bolt at the first opportunity.
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Dec 13, 2019 12:42
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One story to warm the hearts: Ann Widdlecombe got trounced by a gay remainer.
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Dec 13, 2019 12:43
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Jel Shaker posted:The sad part is that the Question of Brexit cannot be fundamentally answered by labour, so in a sense it has to be a Tory win Every death caused by the next 5 years of Tory rule and hard Brexit is squarely on David Cameron. The cowardly gently caress deserves to suffer their fate in their place.
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Dec 13, 2019 12:45
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goethe42 posted:As an EU-migrant (from west to east), with in-laws and plenty of friends and colleagues that have worked or are still working elsewhere in the EU (and most of them in qualified jobs), gently caress you and your nationalist bullshit. I've been an EU-migrant. I have friends working elsewhere in the EU. I have friends here who are from elsewhere in the EU. I loathe nationalism. How are any of these people helped by more and more victories of parties that are steadily becoming ever more right wing?
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Dec 13, 2019 12:45
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Is there a goon stream that is a bit more representative of the range of parties rather than a Labour circlejerk? I watched Praxis' stream last night for about an hour and it was alright, but it got a bit samey hearing the same viewpoint over and over.
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Dec 13, 2019 12:47
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Randomly thought of that scene where Agent Smith says that originally the Matrix was intended to be a utopia where everyone’s needs were met and desires granted, and it was a colossal failure because people couldn’t accept it. I’m kinda thinking that’s what socialism is.
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Dec 13, 2019 12:47
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Orange Devil posted:I've been an EU-migrant. I have friends working elsewhere in the EU. I have friends here who are from elsewhere in the EU. I loathe nationalism. How are any of these people helped by more and more victories of parties that are steadily becoming ever more right wing? How would they be helped by expelling them from the country and creating a dutch ethnic hierarchy? How is that not itself a victory of a right wing party?
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Dec 13, 2019 12:48
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Orange Devil posted:As an addendum to 2: I've worked in warehousing and distribution in the Netherlands for the past 5 years. That means the majority of my colleagues is eastern European, first almost entirely Polish, now more and more Romanian. A lot of those colleagues are absolutely great people and I've become friends with a whole bunch of them. At the same time, unionization has been declining the more old Dutch colleagues are retiring and being replaced with more eastern Europeans. I see absolutely atrocious things happening to some of the most vulnerable temp workers from those places simply because they don't know their rights, don't speak the language, are young and stuck on temp contracts and usually have had what little support network they might have had back where they come from broken up by their migration(s) (so many have worked in multiple countries and sometimes easily in over a dozen vastly different jobs). How the gently caress do you even begin to organize a crowd like that? The sad fact is that it'd be infinitely easier to push back on some of the poo poo the company has been pushing if the vast majority of my colleagues were Dutch instead. And it is absolutely true that the reason warehouse workers' wages have been stagnant for over a decade now is because there's always been another new desolate eastern European place turbofucked by capitalism they can bus in desperate people from to replace the ones who are finally too fed up with it (or worse). Ah yes, the labourers of the past were of course highly educated academics and never ever low education immigrants, so that's the reason unions were able to exist in the first place.
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Dec 13, 2019 12:50
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It's always coldest before dawn. Brexit is now inevitable, we're on the cusp of global recession, and hopefully the Tories will get to own everything from here on out. Bridgend county went blue ffs. Ford plant has already closed. It's poo poo and getting shittier, and the devolved governments have done their jobs of shifting the blame to the local Labour for the problems caused by lack of funding by central government. Nothing the tories said apart from 'brexit now' has any meaning there, but that was enough. Maybe in the post-brexit hellscape, the cyborg avatar of Rebecca Long-Bailey can win the next election and nationalise our last defenses against the mutant hordes.
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Dec 13, 2019 12:50
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Hello Britain, sorry about your situation, if anyone wants to think about the way forward for progressivism not just in the UK but more broadly, there's a thread
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Dec 13, 2019 12:53
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Ahdinko posted:Is there a goon stream that is a bit more representative of the range of parties rather than a Labour circlejerk? I watched Praxis' stream last night for about an hour and it was alright, but it got a bit samey hearing the same viewpoint over and over. The choice was always socialism or barbarism op If you want to know how the barbarians feel, watch the fuckin Channel 4 thing from last night
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Dec 13, 2019 12:54
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OzyMandrill posted:It's always coldest before dawn. Brexit is now inevitable, we're on the cusp of global recession, and hopefully the Tories will get to own everything from here on out. Bridgend county went blue ffs. Ford plant has already closed. It's poo poo and getting shittier, and the devolved governments have done their jobs of shifting the blame to the local Labour for the problems caused by lack of funding by central government. Nothing the tories said apart from 'brexit now' has any meaning there, but that was enough. There've been a lot of dawns over the last decade and they've only gotten colder
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Dec 13, 2019 12:54
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Unfortunately Corbyn was a decent man, and he’ll leave with a lot of the media baggage attached to him (but I had noticed how the media have recently changed their approach to saying “labour leadership” in regards to antisemitism) , but he didn’t sling poo poo at the tories or bad mouth boris to his face which was a missed opportunity imo
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Dec 13, 2019 12:55
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anyone feeling hopeless, take some time away from politics if you can. poo poo's unpredictable and chaotic, it'll only get more so, you never know what'll happen. an opportunity may come. or might not. who knows.
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Dec 13, 2019 12:57
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My previously "best" mate said on our whatsapp chat this morning that to say Corbyn isn't the problem and that it's a media crusade is "trumpian" and that Labour "should've picked David Milliband". Told him that I hope he enjoys fascism, 'cause it won't be long now. Of course, he will, cause he's a comfortable small-business owner with a comfortable small-business owner dad, who evidently doesn't give enough of a poo poo about anyone else and probably thinks that people in poverty should "simply start their own business". He's a Lib Dem supporter, of course. I'm just glad Swinson lost her seat.
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Dec 13, 2019 12:57
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Jel Shaker posted:Unfortunately Corbyn was a decent man, and he’ll leave with a lot of the media baggage attached to him (but I had noticed how the media have recently changed their approach to saying “labour leadership” in regards to antisemitism) , but he didn’t sling poo poo at the tories or bad mouth boris to his face which was a missed opportunity imo In UK politics, not talking poo poo is basically accepting defeat.
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Dec 13, 2019 12:58
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It's loving hilarious when people poo poo on about echo chambers and lack of broader party representation in leftpol threads Fucker, have you read a newspaper, the whole world is a centre right echo chamber
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Dec 13, 2019 12:59
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That Italian Guy posted:Ah yes, the labourers of the past were of course highly educated academics and never ever low education immigrants, so that's the reason unions were able to exist in the first place. European migrants aren't necessarily particularly uneducated. There are plenty of Poles with graduate degrees working as hotel cleaners in richer countries right now. Orange Devil is right that it's hard to organise a workforce that may neither know their rights nor be around long enough to want to assert them. But it's really essential, and the organisations that have been taking on Uber, Deliveroo, Hermes and the like are showing the way there. The answer isn't "Dutch jobs for Dutch people", it's "Dutch unions shouldn't just be for the Dutch".
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Dec 13, 2019 13:00
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https://twitter.com/bellaneergaard/status/1205392014331830272 God I hate the BBC right now
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Dec 13, 2019 13:02
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Pesmerga posted:Randomly thought of that scene where Agent Smith says that originally the Matrix was intended to be a utopia where everyone’s needs were met and desires granted, and it was a colossal failure because people couldn’t accept it. Did the Agents ever provide any evidence that utopia didn't work and late 90s end of history forever was all that humanity could accept?
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Dec 13, 2019 13:03
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Paid for my unban just to come and post. Voted Lib Dem in my constituency because mine always goes between them and Conservatives and it was one of the seats that Labour had no chance and I still wanted Tories to lose it. We managed to unseat my Tory MP with a huuuuuge swing to LD (which came at a big swing against Labour). Way earlier on in the thread some posters were wondering about whether or not they echo chambered themselves- of course they did. This place always has been a bubble, but you already all knew that so that's not very helpful. All of the Tory voters I have spoken to, that voted Tory this election too, are primarily Pissflapian in their dislike for Corbyn. There have been warnings about his unelectability for years. Popularity matters; I don't think we live in an age of parliamentary elections anymore. More and more our elections will be about the personality and likeability of the prospective PM over their policies, ala American presidentials. Honestly, a lot of the people really tight to Corbyn speak in a way that doesn't make any sense to most people I know. The conversations I've been a part of are around Brexit or NHS, not 'class struggle' or 'destroy the bourgeois'. This political vocabulary is nonsensical to wide parts of the country. My parents are both lower working class but they sure as poo poo don't know it, or identify as part of any class at all. My mum doesn't even know what a class is. When I asked, it's everyone on one side and the queen on another. Highbrow university student socialism will never translate into political success until a whole lot of old people die, in years to come. People don't get you. Not very surprised about the result, but I didn't think Boris would get a majority this big. I feel an 11th hour swing back towards Tories to avoid a prospective hung parliament is probably the most logical explanation but that puts too much stock in the British electorate's ability to unconsciously sense the direction of the wind to be convincing for me. Rakosi fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Dec 13, 2019 |
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Dec 13, 2019 13:03
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Stormgale posted:https://twitter.com/bellaneergaard/status/1205392014331830272 That was Sky.
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Dec 13, 2019 13:05
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OwlFancier posted:How would they be helped by expelling them from the country and creating a dutch ethnic hierarchy? I don't think we should expell anyone. I do think we need a way to acknowledge that actually yes the way migration works right now is loving over the economic interests of the working class. It's literally been designed to. That Italian Guy posted:Ah yes, the labourers of the past were of course highly educated academics and never ever low education immigrants, so that's the reason unions were able to exist in the first place. A lot of unions were racist as hell. We shouldn't be racist at all, obviously. Let's not pretend there was some multi-ethnic paradise in our past that we've lost though. Social democracy very much appears to have been broken through the usage of economic migration by the upper class to break solidarity amongst the working class. I don't know how you restore class solidarity. People just keep voting against their class interests over and over again and it's maddening.
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Dec 13, 2019 13:05
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stev posted:That was Sky. Welp I'm just being a dumbass, sky can get hosed too
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Dec 13, 2019 13:05
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It's funny, there was a period in the run up to the election where I didn't hear about Brexit at all, for like a week when there weren't any leader debates for Boris to waffle on about it. Everything in the lead up suggested that Labour's approach was correct. Hell, even the tories were being cautious when the exit poll came out.
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Dec 13, 2019 13:06
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El Pollo Blanco posted:It's loving hilarious when people poo poo on about echo chambers and lack of broader party representation in leftpol threads I figured UKMT meant "United Kingdom Mega Thread" . I didn't realise that it meant "left exclusive" .
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Dec 13, 2019 13:06
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Leftists in real life don't talk about eating the rich you moron, everyone in this thread who got out the vote would have been hammering on about the NHS being gutted Jesus gently caress
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Dec 13, 2019 13:07
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as i posted last night when the results started coming in, the last thing labour supporters should be doing now is giving up. there are half a million members and millions more voters who wanted a better future, and since we know we can't get that from electoral politics we'll have to do it directly, ourselves. take a rest for now but when you're able have a think about what you, personally, materially, can do to make your little part of these grey lovely islands a bit less nightmarish for the people around you. donate to a homeless shelter if you have the cash, volunteer at a food bank if you have the time, plant a tree, bash some fash to protect your minority neighbours, organise your workplace, let your disabled friends know you have their back against the DWP, anything you can do to make somebody's life a little easier. encourage comrades to do the same, be loud about WHY you're doing it so the loving tories can't take the credit for the upswell of volunteer effort, and we've got a movement. get enough of us - and i emphasise here that labour has the largest membership of any political party in europe - and i'm sure we can come up with some projects more ambitious than just our individual triage. make the labour party synonymous with visible action, on the ground, doing things the tories say isn't possible. when another election rolls around again, we'll be able to say honestly 'look at all the work we've done, the communities we've given hope to, and we weren't even in power. what's your excuse?'
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Dec 13, 2019 13:07
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Rakosi posted:Paid for my unban just to come and post. Voted Lib Dem in my constituency because mine always goes between them and Conservatives and it was one of the seats that Labour had no chance and I still wanted Tories to lose it. We managed to unseat my Tory MP with a huuuuuge swing to LD (which came at a big swing against Labour). Eat poo poo.
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Dec 13, 2019 13:07
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