|
Apparatchik Magnet posted:It was treated as a masturbation joke on rev.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan for years and years after the first reference (one guy got it as his parenthetical nom de guerre in the FAQ), and group members brought it up regularly with Harriet and RJ in correspondence, signings, and similar encounters. Rasfwrj! I hung out there!
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 21:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 06:27 |
|
|
cultureulterior posted:Rasfwrj! I hung out there! I posted way too much there in college.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 22:08
|
|
|
Apparatchik Magnet posted:I posted way too much there in college.  I even went to a meetup. I regret most things about that.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2019 01:35
|
|
|
ulmont posted:
I went to several. I picked up a girlfriend for a while, but the group was mostly cringe.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2019 01:48
|
|
|
ulmont posted:
I think you mean a 'Darkfriend Social:
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2019 01:43
|
|
|
I read most of these books obsessively as a child, and then reread all of them recently some fifteen years later. My perspectives on Nynaeve, Elayne, Galad, Gawyn, and Moiraine all basically did a 180. It's kind of jarring. I think I may have been an idiot as a child.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2019 08:02
|
|
|
Nynaeve in particular I found myself completely changing opinion of when re-reading. Of course she thinks that most of the 'main characters' are complete idiots, she was having to deal with them being lovely teenagers whilst being in her mid twenties! Cadsuane is the character who, upon re-reading as an adult, still comes across as an utterly lovely person who has no right to be anywhere near any kind of position of authority.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2019 09:31
|
|
|
Patrat posted:Nynaeve in particular I found myself completely changing opinion of when re-reading. Of course she thinks that most of the 'main characters' are complete idiots, she was having to deal with them being lovely teenagers whilst being in her mid twenties! Colonel Cool posted:I read most of these books obsessively as a child, and then reread all of them recently some fifteen years later. You can go to any WoT forum and find posts of people completely changing their mind about Nynaeve. It's extremely common. But you will notice that even in the RJ books, Rand never loses the respect he has for her, when he otherwise let's nobody boss him around (or tries to). Liking Gawyn at any point is concerning. I think you might be right about child you being an idiot, Colonel Cool. Thankfully, you've grown out of that. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2019 10:03
|
|
|
cultureulterior posted:Rasfwrj! I hung out there! Bunch of us around, not surprisingly. Thingies as well, I think.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2019 14:28
|
|
|
Patrat posted:Cadsuane is the character who, upon re-reading as an adult, still comes across as an utterly lovely person who has no right to be anywhere near any kind of position of authority. To be ~fair~ she went into self-imposed exile until she couldn't hide any longer.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2019 16:09
|
|
|
Colonel Cool posted:I think I may have been an idiot as a child. Most people are. Hell, I thought Goodkind was a good writer up until my early twenties.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2019 16:26
|
|
|
ChickenWing posted:Most people are. Hell, I thought Goodkind was a good writer up until my early twenties. Yeah I did that one too. It's bewildering, in retrospect.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2019 16:49
|
|
|
Goodkind can write well. He generally doesn't, but he has the odd passage here and there. I like Cadsuane because she proves capable of going well gently caress I was wrong. I mean, it took the saviour of the world putting her under pain of death to do it, but I always got the sense she was trying to do the best as she saw it. Also she treated one of the most evil beings ever like an insolent child and that gets her a few badass points
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2019 17:37
|
|
|
But spanking
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2019 18:05
|
|
|
Butt spanking
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2019 18:15
|
|
|
I always liked Cadsuane because she's a rare glimpse into Aes Sedai being actually competent. Gradually finding out that the mysterious tower full of lady wizards was full of petty, short sighted, squabbling, ineffective people whose best talent was the ability to maintain a certain level of mystique to the outside world was a major letdown. Cadsuane was a horribly flawed person, but she was effective at what she did, intently focused on doing things that actually matter, and willing to learn from her mistakes.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2019 21:40
|
|
|
I got the impression that Cadsuane was doing the same thing to Rand that she wound up doing to the Forsaken later on - she was being the stern old woman not impressed with his poo poo in order to counter the ego-boosting effect of everyone else around him. For that matter, there was probably a big element of that in how she treated the other Aes Sedai.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2019 21:53
|
|
|
One thing I did appreciate about the last few books under Sanderson was that the narrative did start to remember that the Aes Sedai were actually good at channeling. Sure there might have been a bajillion Aiel Wise Ones who could channel but the tower had only been keeping people who were legitimately strong channelers by normal standards then giving them good training in actually wielding their power even if not specifically in combat weaves. Things like that one red Ajah taking on multiple evil Asha'man at the same time or the major impacts they had in the last battle despite there being only a few hundred Aes Sedai in action on a battlefield with thousands of channelers.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2019 22:04
|
|
|
As much as I enjoyed the Androl plot, It did seem a bit strange that the Taimmen seemed to have everything on motherfucking lock and were taken down by a small but plucky band of good men and women They just seemed badly outgunned 
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2019 22:47
|
|
|
Comrade Blyatlov posted:As much as I enjoyed the Androl plot, It did seem a bit strange that the Taimmen seemed to have everything on motherfucking lock and were taken down by a small but plucky band of good men and women I think, at that point, most of them had already pulled out to engage in shenanigans elsewhere and they did not want to risk coming back once the jig was up because they really did not want to risk running into a vengeful Zen Rand who had just demonstrated the ability to kill like, two hundred thousand dudes in ten minutes?
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 00:13
|
|
|
Patrat posted:I think, at that point, most of them had already pulled out to engage in shenanigans elsewhere and they did not want to risk coming back once the jig was up because they really did not want to risk running into a vengeful Zen Rand who had just demonstrated the ability to kill like, two hundred thousand dudes in ten minutes? Huh. That makes sense.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 00:27
|
|
|
Patrat posted:One thing I did appreciate about the last few books under Sanderson was that the narrative did start to remember that the Aes Sedai were actually good at channeling. Sure there might have been a bajillion Aiel Wise Ones who could channel but the tower had only been keeping people who were legitimately strong channelers by normal standards then giving them good training in actually wielding their power even if not specifically in combat weaves. on reread, i thought Sanderson did that Red (Pevara I think?) really well - it was nice to see like an actually normal person who takes their ideals seriously, and has some wrong impressions as a result, but isn't a loving crazy evil sadist. i wonder if that was one of those things jordan planned all along in order to subvert his own tropes, or was a Sanderson thing
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 00:54
|
|
|
I’ve gotta say I think a lot of the negative reaction to Cadsuane comes from her being viewed through Rand’s increasingly unhinged lenses. Viewed objectively I see her as an overwhelmingly competent and positive force.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 01:59
|
|
|
Yeah she really is It becomes a lot more apparent on a binge reread like I'm doing, sorta like the Shadow's overall plan being to break Rand rather than defeat him Also I just finished Towers and man it's just  as gently caress
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 02:21
|
|
|
Colonel Cool posted:I always liked Cadsuane because she's a rare glimpse into Aes Sedai being actually competent. Gradually finding out that the mysterious tower full of lady wizards was full of petty, short sighted, squabbling, ineffective people whose best talent was the ability to maintain a certain level of mystique to the outside world was a major letdown. Hey they should use that old German woman from band of brothers for Cadsuane She had the disapproving look down pat
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 02:25
|
|
|
eke out posted:on reread, i thought Sanderson did that Red (Pevara I think?) really well - it was nice to see like an actually normal person who takes their ideals seriously, and has some wrong impressions as a result, but isn't a loving crazy evil sadist. i wonder if that was one of those things jordan planned all along in order to subvert his own tropes, or was a Sanderson thing Pevara was introduced in book 7. And one of the first things we learn is that she doesn't hate men and sometimes spoke out in favor of Reds bonding Warders. She's very different from basically any other Red we've ever seen, and she was very clearly designed to be firmly on the side of Team Good from the very start.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 02:27
|
|
|
Comrade Blyatlov posted:Hey they should use that old German woman from band of brothers for Cadsuane Nah they need Maggie Smith.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 02:42
|
|
|
The Lord Bude posted:Nah they need Maggie Smith. Judi Dench
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 03:22
|
|
|
I never imagine anybody that old playing an Aes Sedai.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 03:26
|
|
|
Vavrek posted:I never imagine anybody that old playing an Aes Sedai. It's basically cadsuane being described as ancient all over the place.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 03:30
|
|
|
It was pretty suspicious how she was described as being so old compared to the ageless look the other Aes Sedai had. I was convinced she wasn't bound by the Oath Rod.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 04:14
|
|
|
Torrannor posted:Pevara was introduced in book 7. And one of the first things we learn is that she doesn't hate men and sometimes spoke out in favor of Reds bonding Warders. She's very different from basically any other Red we've ever seen, and she was very clearly designed to be firmly on the side of Team Good from the very start. ty! yeah i thought there was a setup along those lines, i just wish there were more normal Reds in general
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 04:25
|
|
|
Verin is such a good character, goddamn. The amazing ways Jordan compares her to a fat little bird in every single scene is hilarious, and nobody knows what to think about her except "she's way smarter than she lets on, maybe?". I also lost it at the way Michael Kramer reads the following random intro for a manor servant: One of the twinned doors creaked open to admit a white-haired man in a worn yellow coat trimmed with red and blue that hung loosely on his bony frame. His bow was halting, a fault of his joints rather than disrespect. "My Lord Dragon," he said in a voice nearly as creaky as the hinges, "Lord Logain has returned." It's a total nothing paragraph except it dunks on this bony old man and Kramer gives him such a perfect voice for it. I love "a voice as creaky as the hinges" as a description.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 05:00
|
|
|
Anias posted:It's basically cadsuane being described as ancient all over the place. Yeah, I was thinking, like, 50s, maybe early 60s? I normally picture Aes Sedai as looking like they're about 40 or 45, but started getting plastic surgery the moment they saw their first wrinkle. You look at them and go "You look like you're old, but you don't look like you're old. Wow, must be magic."
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 05:43
|
|
|
My personal headcannon is that Aes Sedai all look like Joan Rivers.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 12:45
|
|
|
A touch of grey means youre old as hell, looking like a straight up old woman means you're older than hell and dirt
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 13:37
|
|
|
The Lord Bude posted:My personal headcannon is that Aes Sedai all look like Joan Rivers. Joan Rivers and Dolly Parton
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 14:44
|
|
|
My internal reference for the ageless look is Priscilla Presley in Naked Gun. She's something like 43 in the first one.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 18:27
|
|
|
Pleads posted:Verin is such a good character, goddamn. The amazing ways Jordan compares her to a fat little bird in every single scene is hilarious, and nobody knows what to think about her except "she's way smarter than she lets on, maybe?". I think in a Cadsusne POV she all but says she knows what Verin's game is, but don't quote me on that
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 18:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 06:27 |
|
|
Comrade Blyatlov posted:I think in a Cadsusne POV she all but says she knows what Verin's game is, but don't quote me on that I distinctly remember it the other way--Verin was poised to poison Cadsuane until she figured out what Cadsuane was there for. Now, the way Cadsuane spoke to Verin in that passage seemed to infer that she was aware that Verin was "off" but was still trying to do the right things. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Dec 13, 2019 |
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 18:47
|
|