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England is an Albatross around the UK's neck, as long as it is (or as long as we are) in the union, the tories will always have a big chance of staying in power
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Dec 13, 2019 14:41
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:How is 364 seats a majority of 78 when the winning line is 326? The opposition is considered to be the sum of Labour + SNP
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Dec 13, 2019 14:42
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How in the hell is the left supposed to appeal to a rural Right that are happy to be poor, and whose primary political objective is ethnic and religious cleansing?
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Dec 13, 2019 14:42
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Richard Burgon should be the leader Not for any good reason I just have a big crush on him
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Dec 13, 2019 14:42
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:How is 364 seats a majority of 78 when the winning line is 326? Each seat you win over 326 is one less MP who can vote against you as well Also there are 7 Sinn Fein MPs who don't take their seats and therefore don't vote so there are effectively only 643 seats in parliament
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Dec 13, 2019 14:42
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Truniht posted:UK baby boomers don’t give a gently caress what will happen to the NHS Yeah, I can imagine it. Pensioners who've "paid in all their lives already" continue to get NHS services free at the point of use. Younger people get the equivalent of tuition fees - a token amount at first that rapidly escalates into crippling costs, while the oldies shrug and opine that £250 for a GP consultation and £150 for a course of antibiotics are perfectly reasonable charges.
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Dec 13, 2019 14:43
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I'm not seeing the point here. Doesn't seem like too much of a spicy take that all of these confounding factors are in fact, partly to blame? Does he want people to say Corbyn bad? Seems like all the goading is coming from people who so desperately want the left to collectively shout Corbyn bad man, policies bad, centrism would have won. That just ain't it is it. And it wasn't the general policy platform either, because polled independently of Corbyn or any party, the proposals were generally very popular. joesci fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Dec 13, 2019 |
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Dec 13, 2019 14:43
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joesci posted:I'm not seeing the point here. Doesn't seem like too much of a spicy take that all of these confounding factors are in fact, partly to blame? Does he want people to say Corbyn bad? Seems like all the goading is coming from people who so desperately want the left to collectively shout Corbyn bad man. That's just a dumb reductive dunk. i think he wants the online left to blame it on themselves, which is pretty stupid as far as reasons for this result go. we did collectively gently caress things right up though, but probably over brexit, maybe over corbyn. but i dont think there was much that could have been done about either
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Dec 13, 2019 14:45
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Comedy option: SNP becomes a nationwide party, gains a big majority in 2025
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Dec 13, 2019 14:45
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joesci posted:I'm not seeing the point here. Doesn't seem like too much of a spicy take that all of these confounding factors are in fact, partly to blame? Does he want people to say Corbyn bad? Seems like all the goading is coming from people who so desperately want the left to collectively shout Corbyn bad man. That's just a dumb reductive dunk. As an outsider and social democrat looking in: Corbyn was the right man at the wrong time in my opinion. Brexit was never gonna work for labour because the supporters who voted leave won't get their say. In reality Labour should be against the EU, on economic grounds alone. But that would leave the remianers with no options besides what, libdem? That isn't good. Postorder Trollet89 fucked around with this message at 14:49 on Dec 13, 2019 |
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Dec 13, 2019 14:46
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Pochoclo posted:Comedy option: SNP becomes a nationwide party, gains a big majority in 2025, unilaterally passes law to secede Scotland You mean to liberate the ‘New Scottish Garden’
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Dec 13, 2019 14:46
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TwoQuestions posted:How in the hell is the left supposed to appeal to a rural Right that are happy to be poor, and whose primary political objective is ethnic and religious cleansing? Opinions like these are a big part of the problem and what make rural people identify themselves in another camp than the one you are in, even if they don't lust for ethnic cleansing and race wars. Perhaps some sympathy for rural problems, solid promises to funnel money there for schools and infrastructure, to get jobs to come there? Promise some kind of small town / rural re-invigoration program, suck up to them on TV, promise them things, they are so desperate that obvious lying and pandering works wonders.
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Dec 13, 2019 14:48
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Aidan_702 posted:In terms of next leader I think I’m on the Starmer Train. He’s decent and slick and the closest thing to the Thick of It’s Dan Miller which is apparently a metric as good as any other for success. What makes you think Starmer is a socialist? If we elect someone who doesn't share Corbyn's values, the first thing they'll do is remove the OMOV system of electing the leader and the membership will be hosed.
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Dec 13, 2019 14:49
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what happened to the surge in voter registration and the supposedly energised youth?
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Dec 13, 2019 14:49
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The funny part is, Theresa May was actually technically correct in saying that was the best Brexit deal we were going to get loving hellworld
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Dec 13, 2019 14:51
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jabby posted:What makes you think Starmer is a socialist? They won't get the NEC on side. I'd still much prefer RLB or maybe Rayner leading to any kind of Starmer though.
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Dec 13, 2019 14:51
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https://twitter.com/keirbradwell/status/1205350973159460866
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Dec 13, 2019 14:51
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zhar posted:what happened to the surge in voter registration and the supposedly energised youth? I blame the 16+ age requirement on energy drinks
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Dec 13, 2019 14:51
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His Divine Shadow posted:Opinions like these are a big part of the problem and what make rural people identify themselves in another camp than the one you are in, even if they don't lust for ethnic cleansing and race wars. I don’t think calling a racist a racist is problematic
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Dec 13, 2019 14:52
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It occurs to me that the antisemitism smears aren't going anywhere, regardless of who the next leader is - it's been such a staggeringly successful tactic the tories aren't going to drop it, all they have to do is say "Well, you willingly worked in the same party as known antisemite Jeremy Corbyn, so how do we know Labour blah blah blah..." 
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Dec 13, 2019 14:52
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Communist Thoughts posted:i think he wants the online left to blame it on themselves, which is pretty stupid as far as reasons for this result go. Sure. I was never Corbyn's biggest fan and I wanted him to step down multiple times. Corbyn was a shoddy leader, but was the man who came forward with the policy platform the party membership yearned for. After it becoming clear that he wasn't going and would run again, why would the left have actively tried to shoot him down at such a vital time, just like all the FBPE lot have done for the past 3 years? Worked for them didn't it. Brexit is stopped and all that. The facts of the matter are that Corbyn was pretty poor, Brexit was unwinnable, and all the other odds regarding the media and the likes were stacked against them. I genuinely don't know what these people want.
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Dec 13, 2019 14:53
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His Divine Shadow posted:Opinions like these are a big part of the problem and what make rural people identify themselves in another camp than the one you are in, even if they don't lust for ethnic cleansing and race wars. These were all in the Labour manifesto???
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Dec 13, 2019 14:54
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Asgerd posted:It occurs to me that the antisemitism smears aren't going anywhere, regardless of who the next leader is - it's been such a staggeringly successful tactic the tories aren't going to drop it, all they have to do is say "Well, you willingly worked in the same party as known antisemite Jeremy Corbyn, so how do we know Labour blah blah blah..." maybe https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1205440379597869056?s=20
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Dec 13, 2019 14:54
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zhar posted:what happened to the surge in voter registration and the supposedly energised youth? It wasn't in Dudley North, was the problem.
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Dec 13, 2019 14:55
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Guavanaut posted:They'd need the NEC on side to get away with that without a challenge. The leader personally selects a bunch of the NEC. Perhaps not a huge number, but we don't have a huge majority on it.
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Dec 13, 2019 14:56
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joesci posted:I'm not seeing the point here. Doesn't seem like too much of a spicy take that all of these confounding factors are in fact, partly to blame? Does he want people to say Corbyn bad? Seems like all the goading is coming from people who so desperately want the left to collectively shout Corbyn bad man, policies bad, centrism would have won. That just ain't it is it. But apply that logic to literally any Tory failure over the past ten years, because you'll very quickly find that in every instance the blame never resides on them, the people making the decisions, but its always someone else. Just wait until Brexit turns into a shitshow, which it absolutely will, and watch them blame the EU, Labour, the left, migrants, Muslims, Iran, literally anything other than the painfully loving obvious, which is that they've just picked up a majority to deliver a utopian project and they're too incompetent to find a solution to this that will please anyone.
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Dec 13, 2019 14:56
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within a day of the new leader being elected they will have officially failed to get a grip of the antisemitism introduced into the party by corbyn, it's tediously predictable.
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Dec 13, 2019 14:56
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Truniht posted:I don’t think calling a racist a racist is problematic No it's not, is that what I said? If so I wrote badly and apologize, or you misunderstood.
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Dec 13, 2019 14:56
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LemonyTang posted:These were all in the Labour manifesto??? Then drat.
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Dec 13, 2019 14:57
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Asgerd posted:It occurs to me that the antisemitism smears aren't going anywhere, regardless of who the next leader is - it's been such a staggeringly successful tactic the tories aren't going to drop it, all they have to do is say "Well, you willingly worked in the same party as known antisemite Jeremy Corbyn, so how do we know Labour blah blah blah..." electoral strategies are past the point, labour should act as an agitation front first, electoral party second in fact any of the parties of the socialist international would do well to go that way
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Dec 13, 2019 14:58
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The new leader would have to implement the EHRC recommendations (whenever they come out) and probably have a big speech about how terrible Corbyn was at tackling it while visiting Jerusalem or something. Honestly, anything to get this off our backs is worth it as long as the rest of the policies are still left-wing. UK Labour is not solving the ME Peace Process.
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Dec 13, 2019 14:58
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fortunately ken livingstone was interviewed to blame jews
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Dec 13, 2019 15:00
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The trouble is that Labour can't win again until it goes full left-wing English nationalist, and nationalism is pure unmitigated poison which is anathema to any internationalist socialist movement The era of neonationalism just made its way to England, folks
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Dec 13, 2019 15:00
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zhar posted:what happened to the surge in voter registration and the supposedly energised youth? they probably mostly didn't vote? it be interesting to see the % of voter turnout this time, epecially for young people.
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Dec 13, 2019 15:01
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Venomous posted:The trouble is that Labour can't win again until it goes full left-wing English nationalist, and nationalism is pure unmitigated poison which is anathema to any internationalist socialist movement In other words Britain needs Josef Stalin
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Dec 13, 2019 15:01
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Prism Mirror Lens posted:Richard Burgon should be the leader This thread doesn't NEED horniness for elected members of parliament What this thread NEEDS is a Labour government
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Dec 13, 2019 15:01
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Not So Fast posted:The new leader would have to implement the EHRC recommendations (whenever they come out) and probably have a big speech about how terrible Corbyn was at tackling it while visiting Jerusalem or something. literally nothing short of becoming tories will get this off your backs, bowing down to the smears will just empower the right to purge the party of anyone who thinks that poor people and/or palestinians are human beings with rights
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Dec 13, 2019 15:01
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Rustybear posted:within a day of the new leader being elected they will have officially failed to get a grip of the antisemitism introduced into the party by corbyn, it's tediously predictable. I almost think that the next leader needs to be 'disposable' in a sense. With 4+ years to go, anyone picked next will be constantly attacked and smeared until their personal popularity is no better than Corbyn's before the next election. It may be best to have someone around for 2-3 years to eat most of that flak before making way for a fresh face.
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Dec 13, 2019 15:01
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MikeCrotch posted:This thread doesn't NEED horniness for elected members of parliament
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Dec 13, 2019 15:02
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xtothez posted:I almost think that the next leader needs to be 'disposable' in a sense. With 4+ years to go, anyone picked next will be constantly attacked and smeared until their personal popularity is no better than Corbyn's before the next election. That's dumb as hell.
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Dec 13, 2019 15:03
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