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I imagine that he may eventually regret not lying to placate her. I also think it's possible that right now his coping precludes him from empathizing with her, and would even if her apology was genuinely a result of moral growth and not just an attempt to make her own guilt and fear go away.Knobb Manwich posted:If terminal girl had genuine remorse for her actions for how they impacted bullied guy and wanted to make that right, she'd call off her friends on social media. There's no way she doesn't know about it. I don't mean that she started or encouraged it but she's in a prime position to end it and hasn't. Yeah.
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Dec 13, 2019 10:47
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Bullies can gently caress off even if theyre dying. Huge lol at the decorum wimps crying about the dying bully not being forgiven.
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Dec 13, 2019 11:25
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Hating somebody means that you're still attached to the person in a way, but the dude severed, he's completely apathetic to her. That's beyond hate. He doesn't care what happens to her, it's like she doesn't exist. He has nothing to gain, her peace doesn't interest him. It's effort to interact with her and her situation, and he clearly doesn't want that. The main argument to do that is, because her friends are harrassing him now.
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Dec 13, 2019 11:44
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Nah, he still hates her. He says he's apathetic, but it comes off as an angry person in denial. If he really didn't give a poo poo, he'd have spent 10 seconds making nice because it's the easiest and most acceptable thing to do, moved on, and never thought about it again. He's not wrong to be mad, but he's definitely mad.
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Dec 13, 2019 12:05
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Hiro Protagonist posted:Okay, maybe I'm taking things a bit far there, but can someone in this thread explain what he has to gain by not forgiving her? Because in my mind, the issue is that he gained nothing, but she lost everything in that exchange. Sometimes people in this thread seem to treat forgiveness as some magic thing that opens you up to attack from the other person, or lowers your abstract standing in a way that makes no sense to me. Is whispering some forgiving lies a "common courtesy" or is it akin to calling an ambulance to save a bleeding-out person? You can't keep jumping between extremes like that, it muddles your argument. If forgiving her would just be some small thing then he's not an rear end in a top hat. You're not obligated to thank someone for holding the door for you, but you don't become an rear end in a top hat if you don't thank them, either. If forgiving her (even if it's a lie) would be a massive act of charity then it really needs to be balanced against the act being forgiven, even if it's false forgiveness. I don't expect victims to forgive their tormentor at the drop of a hat, even if their tormentor suddenly contracts a terminal illness. She's asking that he carry the emotional burden of guilt over the past trauma that she inflicted on him; that is the cost he would pay by forgiving her, even if that forgiveness is a lie. So yes, there is a cost here. Telling her that he does not want to pay that cost does not make him an rear end in a top hat, especially since he's clearly still working through all of those years of built-up distress. His response (albeit self-reported) was not really vindictive, as he could have made her feel a lot worse in any number of ways than by simply saying "I don't forgive you." It's okay for him to not want to carry the additional emotional baggage of this request in his currently-distressed state (yes, he claims to have moved on, as a 17 year-old would, but clearly has not). I disagree with the notion that she lost something in this exchange. She retains the same guilt over her prior actions, she just failed to give that burden to her former victim.
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Dec 13, 2019 12:39
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A lot of you guys need to look up the meaning of the word contempt. Not forgiving her bully by coolly declining her apology is not hate, it's contempt. Utter contempt. As in, "your peace of mind before you die is so beneath my care that even an insincere attempt to take it seriously at no real cost to me is not possible.". Maybe she'll regret it later in life. But these arguments that the girl deserves to be forgiven are ridiculous. As any 17 year old with terminal cancer will tell you, what the gently caress does 'deserve' have to do with anything?
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Dec 13, 2019 13:01
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gently caress  for that rear end in a top hat cancer kid
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Dec 13, 2019 13:08
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The fact that she has done nothing about her friends harassing her victim means that there is no way the apology was sincere.
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Dec 13, 2019 13:12
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Shasta Orange Soda posted:Nah, he still hates her. He says he's apathetic, but it comes off as an angry person in denial. If he really didn't give a poo poo, he'd have spent 10 seconds making nice because it's the easiest and most acceptable thing to do, moved on, and never thought about it again. This: The Bramble posted:A lot of you guys need to look up the meaning of the word contempt. Not forgiving her bully by coolly declining her apology is not hate, it's contempt. Utter contempt. As in, "your peace of mind before you die is so beneath my care that even an insincere attempt to take it seriously at no real cost to me is not possible.". Maybe she'll regret it later in life. But these arguments that the girl deserves to be forgiven are ridiculous. As any 17 year old with terminal cancer will tell you, what the gently caress does 'deserve' have to do with anything?
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Dec 13, 2019 14:02
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SirSamVimes posted:The fact that she has done nothing about her friends harassing her victim means that there is no way the apology was sincere. Yeah, it might be too late for her to learn a lesson but at least let her little poo poo friends see that you can't suddenly apologize when you want something and get it. gently caress bullies, you aren't required to placate them no matter how sad their situation becomes.
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Dec 13, 2019 14:02
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SirSamVimes posted:The fact that she has done nothing about her friends harassing her victim means that there is no way the apology was sincere. Yep
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Dec 13, 2019 14:07
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I (27F) feel like I can’t confide in my husband (29M) when I’m stressed because he makes everything worse. I just want to give an example of me coming home today stressed out about work to explain this. I feel like I mostly need help with how to explain to him how he can encourage and make me feel better instead of giving me the added problem of feeling like I’m not understood when I come home upset. I work in schools in special education and this year has been rewarding yet INSANE. I have been very stressed and I am considering leaving this job at the end of the school year. Today when I came home to complain about work, he said, “that’s what you get when you work in an environment filled with women,” “I feel like you just want a job that doesn’t hold you accountable,” and “you should just quit.” (He KNOWS I don’t want to quit right now, especially mid-school year, it would be complete chaos for me). I complained that he wasn’t being helpful, and how he was making me feel worse, similar to how things were back in August when I was coming home stressed. He said, “yeah, because you were trying to go back home.” (We just moved to this town and I was struggling to transition to the area and work at beginning of the school year, so I talked about how I wanted to move back to my hometown). TL;DR My husband is unhelpful when I’m stressed, how can I show him how to be more helpful instead of making things worse?
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Dec 13, 2019 14:16
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Smirking_Serpent posted:TL;DR My husband is unhelpful when I’m stressed, how can I show him how to be more helpful instead of making things worse? Smirking_Serpent posted:“that’s what you get when you work in an environment filled with women,” By serving his sexist, uncaring rear end divorce papers
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Dec 13, 2019 14:45
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Imagine seeing a terrified 17-year-old girl trying to apologize for what she did wrong in life before she dies and deciding that hurting her in her final days is the better option, and then trying to find evidence that she wasn't really sincere to justify it.
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Dec 13, 2019 14:52
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My evidence is that it was going on since they were both 13. Several years worth of constant bullying is not something you can just up and ask for no hard feelings on.
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Dec 13, 2019 14:56
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WIBTA if I told my gf I was disappointed in her birthday gift? I feel like I would be TA if I said something, but I'd like to make sure... So my birthday rolled around recently and I was excited to spend the night with my gf as well as recieved gifts. I know it seems materialistic but I always look forward to them. Anyway, after hyping up the presents a bit, I opened up the present to find... My own sweatshirt that she had taken, as some girlfriends to. I was really underwhelmed but thought that possibly there would be something tomorrow, as it sounded like she was hinting at that... The next day rolls around and she did get me a gift, but that gift ended up being a donut with a note to have a good day. I feel like it was honestly a bit low effort and it makes me feel a bit down... WIBTA if I shared this with her? Edit: Thank you for the advice... I'll wait until Monday to be sure it isn't a prank, and it it isn't, I'll very carefully tell her how I feel.
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Dec 13, 2019 14:57
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Won't someone please think of the bullies 
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Dec 13, 2019 14:57
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Smirking_Serpent posted:WIBTA if I told my gf I was disappointed in her birthday gift?
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Dec 13, 2019 14:58
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Y'all know what's hard? Forgiving a bully Y'all know what's easier than that? Not being a bully in the first place Really makes you think, huh
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Dec 13, 2019 14:59
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chitoryu12 posted:Imagine seeing a terrified 17-year-old girl trying to apologize for what she did wrong in life before she dies and deciding that hurting her in her final days is the better option, and then trying to find evidence that she wasn't really sincere to justify it. Seriously. I agree when most folks say that the guy has no obligation to forgive her, but his response is pretty messed up either way. It's not a decorum thing, it's an empathy thing, he didn't really HAVE to forgive her, but he didn't need to twist the knife either.
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Dec 13, 2019 15:02
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Malachite_Dragon posted:My evidence is that it was going on since they were both 13. Several years worth of constant bullying is not something you can just up and ask for no hard feelings on. Being as callous as possible to a dying peer is just as hosed up as bullying.
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Dec 13, 2019 15:06
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AITA for helping my girlfriend’s maid clean? I’m visiting my girlfriend’s family for the first time and they’re kind of rich. They have a maid who comes and tidies up for a bit every day. My family isn’t broke, but we’ve never had people working for us, and it made me super uncomfortable. Like, who am I to have someone serving me and cleaning around me while I sit there? I can’t imagine if my mom were witnessing that. She’d flip. So I got up and started to help her tidy up. She thanked me for the help and told me I really didn’t have to worry about it, but I told her it was no trouble (it really wasn’t, we were just sitting watching TV.) Later that night my girlfriend’s parents asked me not to help the maid clean because it was a boundary thing and her work was her work and guests are guests. I told them it made me really uncomfortable to have someone clean around me and they just said not to worry because she’s paid well and has been with them a long time. The next day it happened again and it made me so uncomfortable I said “hey let’s go outside” to my girlfriend but she was busy on her laptop. So eventually I couldn’t help it, I had to jump up and help her out. Her parents walked in and looked pissed and my girlfriend finally clued in and ushered me outside. I’m still so confused by the situation. I’m not sure if I was in the wrong for helping her clean or if I’m in the wrong now for not helping her. My instinct is to help, but when I do people get pissed, so, if you understand the dynamic better than me, please clear this up. Am I the rear end in a top hat for helping her clean?
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Dec 13, 2019 15:08
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He's an rear end in a top hat for specifically not honoring the owners' request while visiting as a guest. Of course, the parents are assholes too for caring that someone they weren't paying dared to treat the help as an equal.
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Dec 13, 2019 15:11
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NTA.  them all (except the maid)
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Dec 13, 2019 15:13
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I was bullied by one kid for about 2 years in high school. He made my bus ride home a nightmare, if I found out he had cancer at the time I wouldn't have felt bad either. As an adult that's almost 20 years removed? I have the maturity now and am far enough away from it that I could forgive him. But at 17 after 4 years of bullying? I couldn't do it, and you're a better person than me if you could forgive that bully.
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Dec 13, 2019 15:13
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dracula vladdy AF posted:Seriously. I agree when most folks say that the guy has no obligation to forgive her, but his response is pretty messed up either way. It's not a decorum thing, it's an empathy thing, he didn't really HAVE to forgive her, but he didn't need to twist the knife either. It is kind of messed up, maybe they should be in therapy. Oh wait, they are in therapy starting from the bullying.
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Dec 13, 2019 15:30
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chitoryu12 posted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4JLsz3OYtk
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Dec 13, 2019 15:38
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I think making forgiveness an obligation of the victim, rather than a gift to the perpetrator, is pretty hosed up. Like, "Look, you make me abuse you" levels of hosed up victim-blaming. The dead or dying's past actions don't stop affecting their victims just because they're dead or dying.
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Dec 13, 2019 15:39
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When you really think about it, all consequences are bad. Nobody ever deserves to have a bad thing happen to them, even if they did a bad thing to someone. when someone chops down a tree and it falls on them and kills them, reality should just be the bigger person and make that not happen.
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Dec 13, 2019 15:39
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If a tree falls on a bully in the forest and nobody is around, do they still require forgiveness?
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Dec 13, 2019 15:51
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DandyLion posted:If a tree falls on a bully in the forest and nobody is around, do they still require forgiveness? And who would be legally responsible in a case like that?
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Dec 13, 2019 15:56
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Gen Z is killing deathbed forgiveness.
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Dec 13, 2019 15:57
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cumshitter posted:Maybe he'll regret it someday, but the bullying was recent, he's still a kid, and I imagine even after she stopped he kept getting anxious feelings when he saw her around school. I think placing it on him to do all that emotional calculus instantly is a lot to ask for. He wasn't over it and he was honest about that. Yes oh my god, this is the answer, they're both kids and they're both wrong for lack of experience. We shouldn't expect them to have our middle-aged wisdom, especially since our middle-aged wisdom has led to us posting on a dead forum where we speculate about the problems of teenagers. They both hosed up and it was the best they could do with the emotional tools they have at this time.
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Dec 13, 2019 15:59
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Neito posted:I think making forgiveness an obligation of the victim, rather than a gift to the perpetrator, is pretty hosed up. Like, "Look, you make me abuse you" levels of hosed up victim-blaming. Yes. "Hey, I know I hurt you terribly, but my past actions are inconvenient for me now, so you're just going to have to forgive me, thanks in advance." The bully's change of circumstances confers no obligation on the part of her victim.
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Dec 13, 2019 15:59
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A Fancy Hat posted:If I found out he had cancer at the time I wouldn't have felt bad either. As an adult that's almost 20 years removed? I have the maturity now and am far enough away from it that I could forgive him. But at 17 after 4 years of bullying? I couldn't do it, and you're a better person than me if you could forgive that bully.
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Dec 13, 2019 16:02
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Forgiveness later in life is a possibility, but enjoying life and thriving as an act of resistance while your enemies crash and burn is pretty sweet too.
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Dec 13, 2019 16:03
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Neito posted:I think making forgiveness an obligation of the victim, rather than a gift to the perpetrator, is pretty hosed up. Like, "Look, you make me abuse you" levels of hosed up victim-blaming. I think the people taking that position in this thread just don't consider the OP enough of a victim, to be honest (which I disagree with).
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Dec 13, 2019 16:09
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DandyLion posted:If a tree falls on a bully in the forest and nobody is around, do they still require forgiveness? And can someone tell me where they are so I can go laugh at them?
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Dec 13, 2019 16:14
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Something bad happening to you doesn’t erase all the lovely things you’ve done and you are never owed forgiveness. I don’t know what it is but people can sometimes get ultra lovely about pressuring victims to forgive their aggressors. It reminds me of that story earlier in the thread where the op was the victim of a bully who died in an accident and his teacher tried to force him to say nice poo poo about a person who made his life a living hell.
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Dec 13, 2019 16:18
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Yes they deserved to die and I hope they burn in hell! Hmmm...maybe Samuel L Jackson should have had a little decorum and learned a lil lesson about forgiveness.
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Dec 13, 2019 16:19
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