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I think a lot of people don't like him precisely because he's calm and not aggressive. If they've even seen him speak at all. I suspect a lot of them literally never have and just have that opinion entirely second hand.
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Dec 13, 2019 21:11
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Katt posted:Small business owners abuse workers to a degree that mega corps could only dream of doing. In ways that are straight up criminal. In a system with laws already shaped to serve the business owners. But workers are afraid to report them because it does them no good if the company gets slapped with a fine a year after they were terminated for not being a team player. Fuckin' Hell... my union days have left me with a permanent twitch at the phrase "small business owner". gently caress the lot of them.
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Dec 13, 2019 21:11
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Zakutambah posted:I'll be honest, he comes across as completely likable in all respects. The hate towards has always struck me as weird. No He'S a DaNgErOuS cOmMuNisT
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Dec 13, 2019 21:11
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Communist Thoughts posted:You are a bloody champion Thank you. But I need to get better at it. Big crowds still scare me, I still feel afraid of getting in trouble and I keep wanting to hide at every moment.
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Dec 13, 2019 21:15
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Well that’s it folks, one of my best friends of 23 years is leaving the U.K. on Monday for Ireland. She’s a settled traveler with six children, three under 10 years old, and they are going to take her house, land, and business away from her, because page 48 of the Tory manifesto promises as much. All bought legally and she’s always fastidiously paid her taxes. She was at the estate agents at 9am putting them on the market. Horses will be sold this weekend, at winter rates, but for the ponies which are being sent over by boat while they still have EU passport. Two adult daughters and her mother will deal with the sale and then join her.
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Dec 13, 2019 21:16
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sebzilla posted:No He'S a DaNgErOuS cOmMuNisT
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Dec 13, 2019 21:16
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learnincurve posted:Well that’s it folks, one of my best friends of 23 years is leaving the U.K. on Monday for Ireland. I hope she's safer there at least 
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Dec 13, 2019 21:18
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Guavanaut posted:The Entente notably prevented two fewer continent-wide European wars than multiple NWS Europe has had though. What? Its objective was to prevent war between France and the UK and it succeeded perfectly in that. Guavanaut posted:Raising the stakes so that there can't be a Great European War without London and Paris disappearing in a flash is more likely to have put the dampers on any ambitions to that end. As with anything like that it only works right up until the moment that it doesn't, but it's worked for 70 years, while leaving the British and French to take out their aggression on non-European powers without any such capacity. So you think that France and Britain are currently in a cold war where they both want to destroy one another but MAD is the only thing standing in the way? By the way, there were two "Great European Wars" in the 20th century where Britain and France were on the same side so the claim that peace between Britain and France suffices to have peace in Europe is farcical.
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Dec 13, 2019 21:18
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learnincurve posted:Well that’s it folks, one of my best friends of 23 years is leaving the U.K. on Monday for Ireland. Sad. Good luck to those who can do what they can for themselves and their own. Sleng Teng fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Dec 13, 2019 |
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Dec 13, 2019 21:19
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Factor_VIII posted:What? Its objective was to prevent war between France and the UK and it succeeded perfectly in that. You could make the 70 years claim about NATO rather than the EU, but what is NATO really but an exercise in wheeling a superpower's nukes around Europe and occasionally loving with North Africa and the Levant?
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Dec 13, 2019 21:22
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marktheando posted:Starmer, RLB and Thornbery are the bookies favourites, in that order i forgot, is starmer a blairite or someone worth caring about?
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Dec 13, 2019 21:25
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Starmer is a centrist who has been willing to work with the corbyn leadership, but I would not trust him in charge of anything.
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Dec 13, 2019 21:26
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Guavanaut posted:No I'm claiming that having more than one nuclear power on the continent has done more to prevent a Europe-wide war over the past 70 years than the EU. How would that stop one of those nuclear powers from attacking another non-nuclear state? Or wars between the non-nuclear states themselves?
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Dec 13, 2019 21:27
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The more I think about it the more I agree with all those saying that Labour just need to simplify their message and campaign. Come up with a simple slogan, maximum three words, then hammer that poo poo every second sentence. Like, TAX THE RICH. Dunno if that's the best one but something like that. Right? No money for the NHS? Solution is TAX THE RICH, that gets us money, yes it's that simple. Railways are hosed and electricity costs too much and so on? Well TAX THE RICH then use that money to improve those services. Education too costly? Guess what, TAX THE RICH. And so on Of course even this won't work if everyone in fact wants to throw out the foreigners and get a loving no-deal Brexit so I dunno.  But, in theory you could even go neutral on racism (yes I know :vomit:) by focusing on just TAX THE RICH. You know, foreigners coming over here? Well if we just TAX THE RICH we'll have the money for British services for British people in any case, right? Seriously, I feel like we just need a simple message, it doesn't need to be 100% correct and right and nuanced, as long as it's like 80% correct and simple to understand. (I mean rather than tax the "rich", which sounds like "focus on taxing rich people specifically", I think it's probably more important to tax big multinational corporations and crack down on tax dodging by companies, but think about the slogan - TAX THE MULTINATIONAL CORPzzz sorry audience fell loving asleep there on the ninth syllable mate, that won't cut it)
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Dec 13, 2019 21:28
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OwlFancier posted:Starmer is a centrist who has been willing to work with the corbyn leadership, but I would not trust him in charge of anything. He might make an OK interim leader who doesn't run for leadership though. Though isn't he a Remainer? We need a brexiter coz brexit is happening for sure now, so we just need a convincing lexiter who is good at media and on the left... Oh jesus christ
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Dec 13, 2019 21:29
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I doubt Starmer has a hope in hell, it'll be a coin flip between RLB and Thornberry if they both run.
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Dec 13, 2019 21:31
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OwlFancier posted:Starmer is a centrist who has been willing to work with the corbyn leadership, but I would not trust him in charge of anything. ah, hope he loses
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Dec 13, 2019 21:32
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jaete posted:The more I think about it the more I agree with all those saying that Labour just need to simplify their message and campaign. Come up with a simple slogan, maximum three words, then hammer that poo poo every second sentence. Like, TAX THE RICH. Dunno if that's the best one but something like that. Right? Problem is if you're doing that I'm going to suggest "break the chains"
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Dec 13, 2019 21:32
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jaete posted:The more I think about it the more I agree with all those saying that Labour just need to simplify their message and campaign. Come up with a simple slogan, maximum three words, then hammer that poo poo every second sentence. Like, TAX THE RICH. Dunno if that's the best one but something like that. Right? "For the many, not the few" was a great slogan. Just need to lose all the complicated baggage and stick to "tax on wealth/excess property, money redistributed to schools and hospitals".
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Dec 13, 2019 21:33
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jaete posted:The more I think about it the more I agree with all those saying that Labour just need to simplify their message and campaign. Come up with a simple slogan, maximum three words, then hammer that poo poo every second sentence. Like, TAX THE RICH. Dunno if that's the best one but something like that. Right? The Murdoch press in Australia at least seems to have very successfully painted all the middle class as the "rich" in "tax the rich". So now folk take it to mean "Labour is stealing my wages to buy the Muslims mobile phones and jeeps" crap, instead of the "maybe that mining billionaire should contribute something to society" it was intended. Zakutambah fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Dec 13, 2019 |
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Dec 13, 2019 21:34
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“gently caress the rich, help the poor” doesn’t work because most poors think they’re temporarily embarrassed millionaires I swear they’ll complain about raising taxes on second homes and incomes of 100k when they’re on UC
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Dec 13, 2019 21:35
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OwlFancier posted:I hope she's safer there at least Oh they have been in a nice hotel for days already, after the Brexit results her caravans got torched during the night, this time no one is going near the property unless they are being escorted by the lads.
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Dec 13, 2019 21:35
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Zakutambah posted:Fuckin' Hell... my union days have left me with a permanent twitch at the phrase "small business owner". gently caress the lot of them. I prefer the term "small business tyrant". It really fits.
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Dec 13, 2019 21:36
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Factor_VIII posted:How would that stop one of those nuclear powers from attacking another non-nuclear state? Or wars between the non-nuclear states themselves? How has the EU led to this 70 years of peace that can't be better explained by the NATO and Warsaw umbrellas or direct war between industrial powers looking a lot less appealing after August 1945?
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Dec 13, 2019 21:37
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forkboy84 posted:I prefer the term "small business tyrant". It really fits. Ohhh... Small Business Tsar. Then we take care of them the same way the Russians did.
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Dec 13, 2019 21:39
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forkboy84 posted:I prefer the term "small business tyrant". It really fits.
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Dec 13, 2019 21:40
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learnincurve posted:Well that’s it folks, one of my best friends of 23 years is leaving the U.K. on Monday for Ireland. What's her line of business, if you don't mind me asking?
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Dec 13, 2019 21:40
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Zakutambah posted:Fuckin' Hell... my union days have left me with a permanent twitch at the phrase "small business owner". gently caress the lot of them. "Family owned business" Pretty much every factory I've worked in brands itself this way.
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Dec 13, 2019 21:41
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My brother and SIL are both much smarter than me and are currently actively looking to leave the UK and head for New Zealand.
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Dec 13, 2019 21:43
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Azza Bamboo posted:"Family owned business" Yeah... some of those were the ones ending up before Child Protection caseworkers. Some real bastards out there that see kids as just another workforce to be exploited.
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Dec 13, 2019 21:44
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Josef bugman posted:My brother and SIL are both much smarter than me and are currently actively looking to leave the UK and head for New Zealand. That sounds more like privilege than smarts.
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Dec 13, 2019 21:46
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Azza Bamboo posted:"Family owned business" Hah, same. A famous Scottish shortbread maker. Do not recommend. Actually being on the line was fine enough, utterly tedious and they should have let me put my headphones on, but between the commute and also having to wash up all these massive bowls & trays & poo poo, good god that was not for me. Josef bugman posted:My brother and SIL are both much smarter than me and are currently actively looking to leave the UK and head for New Zealand. I mean it's not dumb but I don't think you need smarts to consider loving off elsewhere. You need resources. You need money for the move, you need skills & qualifications that are desired in the place you're moving to. And in most parts of the world you need to speak a new language too. For those of us who fall down on one or all of those issues, it's not that we're lacking in smarts. forkboy84 fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Dec 13, 2019 |
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Dec 13, 2019 21:47
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Various thoughts: 1) This is really not the time to decide that class politics is dead. That's what the culture warriors want, but it's important to remember that in 2017 working people supported Labour, it was the retired who hosed us over. I haven't seen stats yet but I'll bet that's still largely true in this election as well. We generally appeal to the working class, we don't appeal to the pensioner class. I'm not sure what the answer to that is (since it's clearly not offering the fuckers a triple lock and free social care), but I think a proper class analysis instead of cultural shite would be a good start. 2) Of course this is an echo chamber, and that is a good thing. It's what made possible it possible for the pre-election thread to be full of people campaigning and encouraging others to, instead of wasting time on endless arguments with shits. I mean the very word 'organizing' basically means 'set up echo chambers'. As long as you remember that's what you've done, it's fine. 3) We can be friendly and welcoming to anyone who considers joining us, but we don't have to be nice to the loving enemy. It's not even true you have to be nice to people to change their minds - that can just help them feel they're fine as they are. 4) I reckon 'break the chains' would be an excellent slogan, focusing on the poo poo employees and (student) debtors and tenants have to put up with. 5) I think Owl and Horse are right about canvassing and outreach, and as a first small step I'm going to make sure I'm wearing my Labour Party hoody when I do anything socially useful. 6) Another important thing we could do is probably to make being a lefty more enjoyable, bolstering our own community members and helping them to establish supportive social links with each other. After all a lot of us are poor and either disabled or overworked, and always feeling the party wants more of you is exhausting. In that spirit, if any Cornwall goons want to play Gloomhaven, PM me - I just got it for Christmas.
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Dec 13, 2019 21:47
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forkboy84 posted:Hah, same. A famous Scottish shortbread maker. Do not recommend. You worked at Walkers in Aberlour?
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Dec 13, 2019 21:48
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I wish my job wasn't quite so isolating. I like not being supervised all the time but it also means I have literally no pretext for forming friendships, and also I am bad at friendships because I had it beaten out of me as a child.
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Dec 13, 2019 21:51
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biglads posted:You worked at Walkers in Aberlour? For about 6 weeks one year. Actually might have been less than that now I think of it, don't think I lasted the full 6 week contract before finding something with a less awful commute. Was over 2 hours a day thanks to having to wait for a bus connection. I really need shorter commutes. forkboy84 fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Dec 13, 2019 |
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Dec 13, 2019 21:52
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Josef bugman posted:My brother and SIL are both much smarter than me and are currently actively looking to leave the UK and head for New Zealand. I'd do the same if I had more in demand skills. Though apparently the common travel area between the UK and Ireland will still exist after brexit, so there's that at least.
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Dec 13, 2019 21:54
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Pochoclo posted:This is it then, so many hate Corbyn, because ??????
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Dec 13, 2019 21:55
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winegums posted:"For the many, not the few" was a great slogan. Just need to lose all the complicated baggage and stick to "tax on wealth/excess property, money redistributed to schools and hospitals". Not a great slogan, too many words. And "for the many" is too vague imo.I'm not saying "tax the rich" is the best possible slogan but it seems to me that we need some kind of easy-to-understand message like that Pochoclo posted:“gently caress the rich, help the poor” doesn’t work because most poors think they’re temporarily embarrassed millionaires Yeah stuff like this is a problem, and the media being total cunts is a problem. But with a whole bunch of consistent campaigning and so on it might be possible to overcome this kind of bullshit. What can I say, I'm an optimist
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Dec 13, 2019 21:55
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I really like the idea of Labour being more active in the community between elections. Not hearing from politicians until election is a very common complaint. Feels like the kind of thing Momentum should have been focussing on. Even stuff like litter picking being done by groups of people wearing Labour hoodies would have a visible impact I think, but only if it's sustained when there's no chance of an election any time soon, so it doesn't look like a publicity stunt.
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Dec 13, 2019 21:57
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