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Mirage posted:If I remember correctly, before Jon walked into the intrinsic field generator in 1985, he kind of sighs to himself, "Oh great, we're doing this thing." So he knows it's coming but is literally powerless to stop it. Wanna see Jon's break up conversations "I didnt want to gently caress that teen girl Janey, my dick was always going to hit that. It couldn't have happened any other way." Clearly hes learned to be more creative in getting out of a boring relationship in 2019 but the man has a long way to go
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Dec 13, 2019 21:16
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My perception of time is precipitating a lot of questions already answered by the literal puppet of myself seen by Angela immediately before the death of her parents
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Dec 13, 2019 21:26
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Asking why Manhattan can't change the future is like asking why normal people can't change the past by just doing something different. To him, everything is already set.
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Dec 13, 2019 21:31
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Piell posted:Asking why Manhattan can't change the future is like asking why normal people can't change the past by just doing something different. To him, everything is already set. Can someone write a script that just posts this at the top of every page?
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Dec 13, 2019 21:33
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But like the reason it feels off is because Manhattan never actually uses his implicit knowledge of the future prior to this show. He sees himself making mistakes like committing genocide in Vietnam or pretending to be a superhero or being tricked by Adrian's cancer ruse but never acts in a way to do things differently. He never manipulates events with it which he explicitly does in the show. And you can't say he's somehow more mature than he was in the 80s that literally cant be true if he cant experience linear time. It really does feel like the showrunner just likes time loops and thought doing a clever one was more important than writing the character well.
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Dec 13, 2019 21:40
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Why would Dr Manhattan act as an agent of white supremacy in Nam if he was also boning a black lady indirectly orphaned by his actions at the same time? All this time travel bullshit is just wallpaper over the fact that Jon chooses to be poo poo to the people who care about him.
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Dec 13, 2019 21:44
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Manhattan in the comic: a man with the powers of a god who makes all the same bad mistakes and has the same messy relationships that anyone else would, only doomed to experience these moments forever because he sees it all happening at once Manhattan in the show: basically using the D.E.N.N.I.S. system and going "uhhhhhh....it was fate" when called out on it
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Dec 13, 2019 21:49
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I AM A BLUE GOD
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Dec 13, 2019 21:51
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Wolfsheim posted:basically using the D.E.N.N.I.S. system and going "uhhhhhh....it was fate" when called out on it You don't think this applies equally to the comic? How are we supposed to understand his teen-banging ways?
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Dec 13, 2019 21:51
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CAROL posted:Time is gay and space is most of stuff. Not hard at all Just because Time went down on me that one time doesn't make it gay... just open to experiments is all... And before you ask it wasn't all that enjoyable. There was this naked blue man crying in the corner watching us. A real killjoy that one.
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Dec 13, 2019 21:55
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Nothing ever ends. Like this loving debate, for example.
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Dec 13, 2019 21:57
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Mysterious entrance Ambiguous introduction Nice enough guy, seemingly Hit that poo poo Annoying reminder that I already know when we'll break up Token attempt at emotional comfort Time takes its toll on her body while I remain a luminous dreamboat Abscond via teleportation Never see her again
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Dec 13, 2019 22:02
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Nail Rat posted:I AM A BLUE GOD It seems like a lazy coincidence that Jon happened to fall for Hooded Justice's secret granddaughter and set the show in motion but what we don't see is Manhattan duplicating himself and walking into every bar in Vietnam doing the whole "of course I see us together in ten years, I'm Dr. Manhattan baby!" bit. Angela's just one of the ones it worked on and then it happened to be true. This will never be referenced outside of the ARG but the true heads will get it
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Dec 13, 2019 22:02
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Cant Docotor Manhattan not really experience past 1985 beyond some random fuzzy images? Post-comic Manhattan would be a different person as far their perception of time and how it influences their behavior, no? Like he actually could change as a person once he has a clear vision of his future. He certainly seems much more "clear" in his vision as opposted to 1985 and prior.
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Dec 13, 2019 22:06
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Weedle posted:Mysterious entrance If every season of this show is just him ruining a different girl's life with his bullshit I will take back every bad thing I've said about it Season two can be Dan's niece I guess
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Dec 13, 2019 22:14
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Why haven't we seen any of Dan, anyways? The rest of the gang's all there
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Dec 13, 2019 22:23
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El Pipila posted:Why haven't we seen any of Dan, anyways? The rest of the gang's all there He’s in prison for preventing the OKC bombing by killing Timothy McVeigh.
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Dec 13, 2019 22:39
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Any time Jon doesn't act based on future knowledge is because Tachyons The Watchmen Universe is just lousy with them
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Dec 14, 2019 00:00
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idgi
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Dec 14, 2019 07:16
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I'm rewatching ep 8 right now and the line "...ah, except perhaps as a reflex in life-threatening situations" is either so poorly and hammily performed by Jeremy Irons that it is frankly pretty bad, or is so awkwardly delivered by Adrian Veidt that it means he's still got some poo poo up his sleeve. If it's an Irons delivery, then I guess it just refers to and ties up the white night (as the goddamn flashback would indicate); if it's a Veidt delivery, and he can't possibly know about the white night, then...?
Skitz fucked around with this message at 11:22 on Dec 14, 2019 |
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Dec 14, 2019 10:54
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Wolfsheim posted:But like the reason it feels off is because Manhattan never actually uses his implicit knowledge of the future prior to this show. He sees himself making mistakes like committing genocide in Vietnam or pretending to be a superhero or being tricked by Adrian's cancer ruse but never acts in a way to do things differently. He never manipulates events with it which he explicitly does in the show. Surely a predestination time loop is not using future knowledge to do things differently though? Its using future knowledge in a way that plays into what already was going to happen. Like, in his argument with (his first girlfriend who's name I forgot) he tells her that they're about to make love in ten minutes, after someone arrives with a gift. But the whole reason they do make love is because the accuracy of this prediction freaks her out enough to make her emotionally vulnerable.
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Dec 14, 2019 11:04
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I considered that Cal may have accidentally passed on his powers when making food for the family, and since he didn't know he had them they wouldn't either.
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Dec 14, 2019 11:36
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Skitz posted:I'm rewatching ep 8 right now and the line "...ah, except perhaps as a reflex in life-threatening situations" is either so poorly and hammily performed by Jeremy Irons that it is frankly pretty bad, or is so awkwardly delivered by Adrian Veidt that it means he's still got some poo poo up his sleeve. If it's an Irons delivery, then I guess it just refers to and ties up the white night (as the goddamn flashback would indicate); if it's a Veidt delivery, and he can't possibly know about the white night, then...? It’s quite possible that the entire affair has been orchestrated by Veidt to some or an entire degree especially if Veidt and Trieu are working in lockstep. They’ve been watching Manhattan on Europa the whole time and maybe Veidt needed to get there for some reason. I kinda hope the ending is as a complete bonkers ‘what the gently caress’ as the psychic squid kaiju corpse exploding New York was. Like maybe we’ve had a few small hints of what happens but without the foreknowledge of the ending they’re all next to meaningless
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Dec 14, 2019 11:37
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It should be noted that Veidt told Manhattan that the ring was part of "Plan A" to kill him...
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Dec 14, 2019 15:03
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massive spider posted:Surely a predestination time loop is not using future knowledge to do things differently though? Its using future knowledge in a way that plays into what already was going to happen. yeah exactly Skitz posted:I'm rewatching ep 8 right now and the line "...ah, except perhaps as a reflex in life-threatening situations" is either so poorly and hammily performed by Jeremy Irons that it is frankly pretty bad, or is so awkwardly delivered by Adrian Veidt that it means he's still got some poo poo up his sleeve. If it's an Irons delivery, then I guess it just refers to and ties up the white night (as the goddamn flashback would indicate); if it's a Veidt delivery, and he can't possibly know about the white night, then...? I think its just Irons being hammy. I love him but I'm not crazy about him as Ozy. But I didn't like the movie casting of Ozy either.
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Dec 14, 2019 18:02
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Yeah agreed. Tom Cruise or Brad Pitt have always been by ideal Ozy. I've always pictured him as someone disarmingly charming and seemingly down to Earth despite his intelligence. The fact that he's such a sociopath is not readily apparent. The movie's take is really weird. There is definitely some queer subtext with the opening scene with who he's interacting with at Studio 54 that is neither here nor there. He's played very cold and Bond-villain like. There really isn't that sense of subversion. The show is similar to me. The aristocratic take on the character just seems to villainous on a surface level.
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Dec 14, 2019 18:28
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The comparison has been made before Irons plays him more like an evil Doc Brown more than anything else. Its fun in the show but doesn’t feel particularly congruous with the comics. Like this isn’t the guy I can imagine doing Olympian stuff on television.
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Dec 14, 2019 18:42
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Yeah, Adrian should really be a Clark Kent type IMO, he's the literal Übermensch, but unlike Clark he's a true objectivist superman who imposes his will on humanity. (Course supes does that a few times) To outward appearances he should be a model man, but then you find out the truth later. More like Homelander from The Boys, although Homelander is intentionally stupid and clueless in ways that Adrian wouldn't be. Raxivace posted:Like this isn’t the guy I can imagine doing Olympian stuff on television. Yeah exactly. Snyder's film made him a nerd, which was weird and wrong and dumb. And I think that may have influenced Irons. Its like Snyder had no trust in the audience to understand Adrian is smart and didn't know how to communicate it other than making him look like a nerd. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Dec 14, 2019 |
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Dec 14, 2019 18:47
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I think it’s more that Snyder himself isn’t too good at making subtext work. Style sure, substance? Not so much. (Don’t @ me, I’m not interested in your disposition about the brilliance of that one shot of MoS. I don’t like his movies at all, and his Watchmen is pretty terrible.) I really enjoyed this show so far. The fact that it’s a continuation and not a retelling of the original comic makes it so much more interesting. I am worried that this final episode is gonna be bloated, What with all the stuff that is still hanging in the air. BigglesSWE fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Dec 14, 2019 |
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Dec 14, 2019 18:56
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I always thought Adrian was supposed to be basically David Bowie
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Dec 14, 2019 19:26
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I didn't get that at all. He has a HUGE, square jaw, big masculine lug head. He's like a butch super American man. Which makes sense because again, he was an Olympic athlete.
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Dec 14, 2019 20:09
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precision posted:I always thought Adrian was supposed to be basically David Bowie This isn't the Venture Brothers.
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Dec 14, 2019 20:10
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Timeless Appeal posted:Yeah agreed. Tom Cruise or Brad Pitt have always been by ideal Ozy. I've always pictured him as someone disarmingly charming and seemingly down to Earth despite his intelligence. The fact that he's such a sociopath is not readily apparent. Did you miss his secret nazi accent?
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Dec 14, 2019 20:36
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I have trouble picturing a viewer who watches the movie Veidt not having read the comic who wouldn’t immediately suss he’s the villain.
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Dec 14, 2019 22:00
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https://twitter.com/houseofcarlyle/status/1205329879794933761
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Dec 14, 2019 22:21
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Zaphod42 posted:I didn't get that at all. He has a HUGE, square jaw, big masculine lug head. He's like a butch super American man. Is there an actor with a physique like that who could also convincingly pull off being hyper intelligent? Christian Bale, maybe.
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Dec 14, 2019 22:31
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Christian Bale doesn't have the chin for it. Now Christian Bale with the CGI chin they gave Thanos, now we're talking.
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Dec 14, 2019 22:38
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massive spider posted:I have trouble picturing a viewer who watches the movie Veidt not having read the comic who wouldn’t immediately suss he’s the villain. They don't because every Watchmen is a douche or a moron. The movie "oh hes the villain" thing is more people projecting what they felt in reading the comic to an adaption and hoping everyone feels the exact same reaction they did when they read it one year ago or the wiki summary. The narrative is too back and forth and weird for you to even think of it much as a whodunit by the time it matters. Adrian is so barely in the movie that you arent even thinking of him most of the time, similar to the comic. He just comes off as some slightly less detached and way less powerful Manhattan that is more competent than everyone else but Manhattan but is far removed. Only people that know the twist or know there is one put a spotlight on him on average. Darko fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Dec 14, 2019 |
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Dec 14, 2019 22:55
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just another posted:Is there an actor with a physique like that who could also convincingly pull off being hyper intelligent? Dolph Lundgren has a masters degree in chemical engineering and was awarded a fullbright scholarship to MIT.
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Dec 14, 2019 23:09
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just another posted:Is there an actor with a physique like that who could also convincingly pull off being hyper intelligent? That is true, its hard. beanieson posted:Dolph Lundgren has a masters degree in chemical engineering and was awarded a fullbright scholarship to MIT. Okay yeah that's pretty brilliant  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNOE0dZpHcY Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Dec 14, 2019 |
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Dec 14, 2019 23:15
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