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alpha_destroy posted:Here is what I think is an interesting thread on Bevin's pardons:  innocent birb tax
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Dec 13, 2019 23:48
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ManBoyChef posted:I have come to the realization that there is no justice in this world. Chances are he will be rewarded for being such a horrible person. The thing he could still face consequences for is his life of awful health choices. So I guess that means our dark gods will bless with life eternal.
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Dec 13, 2019 23:50
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AmiYumi posted:Counterpoint, Bevin is a monster and that very premise is stupid; by focusing entirely on the suspect pardons, they’re saying the others are normal and unworthy of comment, which does in fact make them a commonplace thing that he is trying to abuse. Which is true. And the framing he wants, and says they’re not doing? This is nonsense. An article all about how heinous these crimes were does not in any way send the message that the pardons in general are good. InsertPotPun posted:"I'd rather a thousand guilty men go free than one innocent man spend a day in prison" is a noble and good sentiment...UNLESS THERE'S LITERALLY A MOTHERFUCKING MONEY TRAIL YOU loving GOBSHITE And I think this is missing the point. He says that particular pardon is bad, but even with it being bad, framing the story as look how bad Bevin's pardons are is a problem. alpha_destroy fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Dec 14, 2019 |
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Dec 14, 2019 00:01
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https://twitter.com/JordanUhl/status/1205620995232587784
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Dec 14, 2019 00:01
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i am prepared for the worst but gently caress if i know. i feel like roberts is smart enough to know if they let trump run wild with this than 1. it will hurt chances in 2020 even and 2 more importantly give a clear to any dem president that comes after. the supreme court helped Bush steal the presidency. i have zero faith they will do the right thing.
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Dec 14, 2019 00:03
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They know this will never be a ruling that would help democrats because we wouldn’t run someone as sketchy as Trump, and if we did we’d want to know what’s going on.
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Dec 14, 2019 00:05
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i guess we will see. i feel like roberts doesnt want to stick his neck out for trump on this level of stupid bullshit. but i have been wrong a bunch before. How is he sticking his neck out? He protects The Party and will suffer zero consequences for it ever.
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Dec 14, 2019 00:09
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alpha_destroy posted:Here is what I think is an interesting thread on Bevin's pardons: On the other hand Bevin is an absolutely corrupt fucker and is a Mini-Trump in many ways so he in no way deserves any benefit of doubt. His term as governor was filled with dissolving state groups and reforming them with cronies and the like filling the brand new slots. alpha_destroy posted:This is nonsense. An article all about how heinous these crimes were does not in any way send the message that the pardons in general are good. This is really coming across as  concern trolling.
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Dec 14, 2019 00:09
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alpha_destroy posted:This is nonsense. An article all about how heinous these crimes were does not in any way send the message that the pardons in general are good. A: it's more than one B: the starting point for "prison sentences in general are way too harsh" is NOT "these guys donated money they get to go free"
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Dec 14, 2019 00:11
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Jealous Cow posted:They know this will never be a ruling that would help democrats because we wouldn’t run someone as sketchy as Trump, and if we did we’d want to know what’s going on. Worrying about something like reciprocity or consistency in enforcement isn't on the table anymore. It isn't even in the room. It's in a different house that we all moved out of at least a decade ago, which has since burned down. The only reason this isn't more generally appreciated is that the taboo on spelling things out in these terms is apparently greater than the taboo on actually seizing power.
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Dec 14, 2019 00:14
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It's absolutely not about giving Bevin the benefit of the doubt. It's absolutely about the ways we talk about pardons. Articles just like that one are written at the end of almost every administration. We like to lament around here the fact that politicians and judges have to play tough on crime to keep their jobs. Maybe we should examine our reactions to pardons as a reason that happens.
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Dec 14, 2019 00:14
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i think its less crimes(crimes are still there) and more that it shows that he isnt that rich. Also remember like a week or three ago when he tweeted something about how he hoped the financial records would come out (because MOST TRANSPARENT PRESIDENT IN HISTORY) and they would show that he’s even richer than everyone thinks? He absolutely knows and cares madly about this line of speculation.
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Dec 14, 2019 00:22
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alpha_destroy posted:It's absolutely not about giving Bevin the benefit of the doubt. It's absolutely about the ways we talk about pardons. Articles just like that one are written at the end of almost every administration.
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Dec 14, 2019 00:23
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Data Graham posted:Also remember like a week or three ago when he tweeted something about how he hoped the financial records would come out (because MOST TRANSPARENT PRESIDENT IN HISTORY) and they would show that he’s even richer than everyone thinks? hopefully they will.
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Dec 14, 2019 00:23
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alpha_destroy posted:It's absolutely not about giving Bevin the benefit of the doubt. It's absolutely about the ways we talk about pardons. Articles just like that one are written at the end of almost every administration. again, pardons are good, but can we talk about that without the extremely obvious trail of money and blood?
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Dec 14, 2019 00:24
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SubG posted:I don't know and can't find the data anywhere online: how well do the demographics of those pardoned match the demographics of the prison population? I don't know. That's a good question. And it is hypothetically a much better criticism of the pardons than anything that actually appears in the article.
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Dec 14, 2019 00:26
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Strange Poon posted:the supreme court helped Bush steal the presidency. i have zero faith they will do the right thing.
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Dec 14, 2019 00:27
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Inferior Third Season posted:It doesn't really matter at all now how they rule. By agreeing to hear the cases at all, the stays will be extended until they make a ruling, which will be the middle of next year at the earliest. Even if Roberts decides to make a show of a little independence and rule against Trump, it isn't difficult for them to allow Trump to run out the clock before election day. could end up being an october surprise than hurts him.
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Dec 14, 2019 00:30
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alpha_destroy posted:I don't know. That's a good question. And it is hypothetically a much better criticism of the pardons than anything that actually appears in the article. So pardons have the effect of making racial disparities in criminal justice even worse than they already are. That's not to say that pardons are bad in the abstract or whatever, just that they are in fact a tool for further entrenching injustice.
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Dec 14, 2019 00:38
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alpha_destroy posted:Here is what I think is an interesting thread on Bevin's pardons: why the gently caress do we have a lame duck period where the losers of the election get two months to go do all the horrible poo poo that they didn't dare do before. say what you want about the UK but from what I understand that when you lose your seat you get the gently caress out, you don't get to vote on poo poo for two more months with zero public accountability.
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Dec 14, 2019 00:38
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1glitch0 posted:How is he sticking his neck out? He protects The Party and will suffer zero consequences for it ever. But he doesn't go too far. The GOP (and by extension at this point the supreme court) operate under the assumption the dems will never call them on their abuses as long as they don't go TOO FAR. It's the same reason Roberts flipped on the ACA ruling; the courts coming out and striking down the presidents signature accomplishment on a party line would be a bridge too far. If the court comes out and flat out says the president is above the law, and ignore the constitution in the process (where not even scalia could reinterpret their intention wrt the house and the president's taxes) then you've initiated a constitutional crisis. We're already at the point where the dem base is screaming to stack the courts. Do you think president Sanders would give a poo poo about what Schumer or Pelosi want to do irt the supreme court? And once that line is crossed, then all the others might as well be crossed as well.
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Dec 14, 2019 00:44
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Inferior Third Season posted:It doesn't really matter at all now how they rule. By agreeing to hear the cases at all, the stays will be extended until they make a ruling, which will be the middle of next year at the earliest. Even if Roberts decides to make a show of a little independence and rule against Trump, it isn't difficult for them to allow Trump to run out the clock before election day. ah, i thought there was a much earlier session before the one the middle of next year. even better for them, as a way to try and appear non-partisan
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Dec 14, 2019 00:50
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SubG posted:I don't know if it applies specifically in this case (as I said, I can't find any data on this particular set of pardons) but racial bias in pardons (in America) is as well documented as racial bias in every other part of the criminal justice system. Cite: Haley Barbour pardoned 192 people on his way out the door in Mississippi and around a third of them were PoC, despite PoC being roughly two thirds of the prison population. At the federal level, Presidential pardons favour white people by a factor of about 4:1. And so on. Oh I don't doubt that pardons are handed out in racially biased ways. What social benefit in America isn't? It's a profoundly racist nation. But I don't think the answer to that fact is that we shouldn't have pardon powers or that checks on the carceral system need to be removed. We should be pardoning more people and we should push our politicians to use their pardon powers more equitably. But yes the criticism that pardons as they are used at the moment disproportionately benefit white folks is true.
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Dec 14, 2019 00:52
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FizFashizzle posted:But he doesn't go too far. this. roberts is a monster but he is one that sorta takes a much longer view of poo poo. blowing poo poo up for trumps sake is dumb loving move on any time period. it doesnt help that trumps legal teams argument is basicaly "president is king and can never be looked into" which is a stupid as gently caress argument. at worst i assume they will try to weasle a way out for trump without blowing up the Constitution.
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Dec 14, 2019 01:25
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Dapper_Swindler posted:this. roberts is a monster but he is one that sorta takes a much longer view of poo poo. blowing poo poo up for trumps sake is dumb loving move on any time period. it doesnt help that trumps legal teams argument is basicaly "president is king and can never be looked into" which is a stupid as gently caress argument. at worst i assume they will try to weasle a way out for trump without blowing up the Constitution. They'll try to draw this out as long as they can by granting cert and delaying and hopefully get to a point where the gop can claim it's too close to an election to go after this poo poo. but man that clock is ticking.
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Dec 14, 2019 01:28
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I think it was Opening Arguments who put it as "the conservatives on the court are all horrible, but Roberts can at least be shamed."
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Dec 14, 2019 01:34
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Dapper_Swindler posted:this. roberts is a monster but he is one that sorta takes a much longer view of poo poo. blowing poo poo up for trumps sake is dumb loving move on any time period. it doesnt help that trumps legal teams argument is basicaly "president is king and can never be looked into" which is a stupid as gently caress argument. at worst i assume they will try to weasle a way out for trump without blowing up the Constitution. Yeah, our only saving grace is Trump's lawyers are incredibly inept.
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Dec 14, 2019 01:36
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https://twitter.com/AdamParkhomenko/status/1205517998276124674
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Dec 14, 2019 01:37
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VitalSigns posted:why the gently caress do we have a lame duck period where the losers of the election get two months to go do all the horrible poo poo that they didn't dare do before. it used to be worse it used to be 5 months
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Dec 14, 2019 01:38
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CommieGIR posted:Yeah, our only saving grace is Trump's lawyers are incredibly inept. this. i thank the Gods that trumps a moron and so are his flunkies and the GOP's mask has fallen off. FizFashizzle posted:They'll try to draw this out as long as they can by granting cert and delaying and hopefully get to a point where the gop can claim it's too close to an election to go after this poo poo. i am hoping october surprise.
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Dec 14, 2019 01:39
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https://twitter.com/billkristol/status/1205634545640448001?s=21
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Dec 14, 2019 01:43
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IT'S NOT FAIR! I HATE MY LIFE! NO YOU SHUT THE gently caress UP, DAD!! https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1205648124989100033?s=20
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Dec 14, 2019 01:45
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BigBallChunkyTime posted:IT'S NOT FAIR! I HATE MY LIFE! NO YOU SHUT THE gently caress UP, DAD!! gently caress, its sinking in now. awesome.
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Dec 14, 2019 01:54
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VitalSigns posted:why the gently caress do we have a lame duck period where the losers of the election get two months to go do all the horrible poo poo that they didn't dare do before. Republican secretaries of State would all declare Local Hitler the winner of every election on election day, and the new government would declare elections and minorities illegal while the lawsuits went through the courts.
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Dec 14, 2019 01:58
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i am prepared for the worst but gently caress if i know. i feel like roberts is smart enough to know if they let trump run wild with this than 1. it will hurt chances in 2020 even and 2 more importantly give a clear to any dem president that comes after. you do know that republicans have no integrity and they will do anything to gather more power right?
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Dec 14, 2019 01:59
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When the senate lets him off the hook for this, I 100% expect trump to fly to GB and ask boris to spy on his enemies on international television. He absolutely cannot stop himself from being even more openly corrupt.
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Dec 14, 2019 02:03
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SubG posted:It will never be a ruling that would help Democrats because Republicans and the conservatives on the Court increasingly aren't even pretending to care about anything but seizing and retaining power. As in that's more or less literally what McConnell has said on the record. It's what Trump and those in his immediate orbit are currently prancing around the media shouting in the loudest, and in the case of e.g. Giuliani, most deranged voice they can manage. This is incredibly true. There is not even any pretense that the rules will be enacted fairly...hell they wont even follow them. The thing that really bothers me about how craven the republican party has become is that their base is just so insufferable. They don't even care if their leaders break laws. They don't care if they have to give up their healthcare or possibility of prosperity. They just want to win against the liberals and the minorities. We are in fairly dark times because the democrats aren't pushing back in any significant way and I have a feeling that the republicans will just continue to lie and break the rules without any consequences.
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Dec 14, 2019 02:07
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Of course Lindsey wouldn't normally care about his earlier blathering, but his voters might these days. New poll shows Lindsey Graham 'extremely vulnerable' in 2020 americanindependent.com/December 13, 2019 Throw it at some SC folks if you know any (or know any that know any).
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Dec 14, 2019 02:12
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BigBallChunkyTime posted:IT'S NOT FAIR! I HATE MY LIFE! NO YOU SHUT THE gently caress UP, DAD!! THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS IN THIS COUNTRY ARE BAD FOR THIS COUNTRY!!!!!
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Dec 14, 2019 02:16
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BigBallChunkyTime posted:IT'S NOT FAIR! I HATE MY LIFE! NO YOU SHUT THE gently caress UP, DAD!!
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Dec 14, 2019 02:21
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