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Victory Position posted:Leon Trotsky once tried to open a door and could not The door opened just fine, the problems arose when he tried to slam it dramatically and it barely moved.
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Dec 13, 2019 22:32
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Helsing posted:The door opened just fine, the problems arose when he tried to slam it dramatically and it barely moved. Lmao that's right
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Dec 13, 2019 22:36
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belgend posted:trotskyists agree with democratic centralism - in theory. in practice and in following of trotsky, trotskyist parties have something called the right to a tendency within the party, where you can look at the discussion that happened in your party, look at the conclusions and just go "no i'm not doing this". tendency right by design prioritizes the debate for the debate over strengthening the counterweight against capitalism. this is why many trotskyist parties and internationales split; because at one point you just tendency right yourself out of the party. like the cwi, a major trotskyist internationale, literally just split because a minority in the leadership did not agree with the line of that internationale
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Dec 13, 2019 23:13
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Lightning Knight posted:lol owned fuk u forum cop
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Dec 13, 2019 23:13
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IWW Online Branch posted:When I was at a protest last year I saw a trot selling newspapers and cracked a joke about it to someone nearby. Their reaction was "Oh they're selling newspapers? Cool, I'll buy one." So gently caress me I guess. yeah it’s cause people who aren’t terminally online are just interested in learning more about socialist ideas and engaging with them sincerely so if you do that you can organize with people
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Dec 13, 2019 23:26
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There was a movie called hot to trot that I watched a few times as a kid and all the early communist ideological conditioning went right over my head!
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Dec 14, 2019 00:10
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that famous medium of knowledge that's doing so well right now in society writ large, newspapers
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Dec 14, 2019 00:21
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if you really want to get your marxist message to the masses have a baby yoda sell it to them
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Dec 14, 2019 00:24
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Percelus posted:if you really want to get your marxist message to the masses have a baby yoda sell it to them literally, yes
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Dec 14, 2019 00:27
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Wasn't there a movie about a kid who thought he was Trotsky reincarnated? Edit: Yup
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Dec 14, 2019 00:40
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yeah it was kinda cute, probably the only time I didn't want to give Jay baruchel a wedgie
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Dec 14, 2019 00:42
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Percelus posted:if you really want to get your marxist message to the masses have a baby yoda sell it to them seems like several facebook marxist meme pages have been up to the task, filling me with a profound sense of malaise in the process, which I generally keep to myself lest I seem too much like an OK boomer old man at the age of 30
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Dec 14, 2019 00:55
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if you are reading memes on facebook then you have powerful boomer energy so don't fight it
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Dec 14, 2019 01:02
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Percelus posted:if you are reading memes on facebook then you have powerful boomer energy so don't fight it there is nothing to be gained from yelling at children about their dumb fads, I possess the shame and self-awareness to recognize this and thus am not entirely a lost cause to boomer mindset at least, so I keep telling myself. let me sustain this delusion, man
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Dec 14, 2019 01:08
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i think its cool that trots make and sell papers and engage with people and i just like to make jokes because i'm jealous that i just shitpost/effortpost online and make memes
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Dec 14, 2019 01:09
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Note that democratic centralism does not quell all debate. It's just a matter of moving the debate to spaces inside the party, rather than public poo poo flinging Edit:ah that was like half a page ago, my app didn't update the thread. Rip
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Dec 14, 2019 01:09
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democratic centralism can't be good, very authoritarian i prefer my socialists movements to be controlled by small cliques that organize the destruction of their opponents inside group chats
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Dec 14, 2019 01:14
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Mr. Lobe posted:seems like several facebook marxist meme pages have been up to the task, filling me with a profound sense of malaise in the process, which I generally keep to myself lest I seem too much like an OK boomer old man at the age of 30 Gritty was dumb as poo poo and I'm glad he's dead.
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Dec 14, 2019 01:59
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Prince Myshkin posted:Gritty was dumb as poo poo and I'm glad he's dead. yes. yes it was. and yet, you will accomplish nothing in saying so. such is the nature of pop culture ephemera, whether mainstream or countercultural
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Dec 14, 2019 02:09
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belgend posted:
Tyvm for this post, it helped a ton. So people just hate trots because they end up being wreckers even when they mean well?
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Dec 14, 2019 02:51
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every time the newspaper discourse starts in this thread I get reminded of the Spart I saw at a protest who was doing the classic hustle of "handing a person an object and then demanding money for it" to sell their papers I understand why newspapers have been so important for socialist parties historically, but I think party publications can exist outside the dying format of the newspaper. Websites, magazines (not zines), and books are still things that working people engage with and will pay money for.
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Dec 14, 2019 03:10
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yes they are buts telling people to check out your website isn’t the best way to actually engage with them. also the sparts are not a good example of how to do anything because they are prolly the most sectarian group out there. way more important than if you’re a trot or an anarchist or a whatever is are you genuinely trying to organize people and work together to build the labor movement. if yes you can be whatever you want to be so long as you’re not an rear end in a top hat to people
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Dec 14, 2019 03:19
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Atrocious Joe posted:every time the newspaper discourse starts in this thread I get reminded of the Spart I saw at a protest who was doing the classic hustle of "handing a person an object and then demanding money for it" to sell their papers There's a guy from the local Trot organization that shows up to literally every event with the org's newspaper in hand. I have know this guy for 4 years and I have literally never seen him without newspaper in hand. Gotta admire that dedication, honestly.
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Dec 14, 2019 03:25
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probably the most insidious thing neoliberalism has done is destroyed the working class by sending jobs offshore and replacing with automation at home whenever possible you can't create a working class movement to combat billionaires if there is no working class
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Dec 14, 2019 03:40
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Percelus posted:probably the most insidious thing neoliberalism has done is destroyed the working class by sending jobs offshore and replacing with automation at home whenever possible this line of thinking is too linear. a lot of people are suffering and a lot of people work lovely jobs. just because it doesn't preface into the still-aging lines of the historical working class doesn't mean it's out of reach or impossible
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Dec 14, 2019 03:47
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Percelus posted:probably the most insidious thing neoliberalism has done is destroyed the working class by sending jobs offshore and replacing with automation at home whenever possible this is liberalism. our revolutionaries wont be farmers and factory workers, they'll be vending machine stockers and service workers
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Dec 14, 2019 03:50
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thehoodie posted:There's a guy from the local Trot organization that shows up to literally every event with the org's newspaper in hand. I have know this guy for 4 years and I have literally never seen him without newspaper in hand. Gotta admire that dedication, honestly.
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Dec 14, 2019 04:15
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Atrocious Joe posted:every time the newspaper discourse starts in this thread I get reminded of the Spart I saw at a protest who was doing the classic hustle of "handing a person an object and then demanding money for it" to sell their papers trot newspaper jokes are a tired meme. but i still think gerry healy screaming about newspapers in the video i posted is funny because of how over the top it is. he's like "our productive printing forces are expanding by quantitative leaps and bounds!!! lenin didn't have a press which could produce 60,000 copies an hour in 1917, no way!!!! but we do!!!!" go big BrutalistMcDonalds fucked around with this message at 04:44 on Dec 14, 2019 |
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Dec 14, 2019 04:23
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i get why its a joke and know the kind of people some posters here have described where everywhere they go they have some tucked under their arms and they try to sell them to everyone at all times and dont really talk to the person first to even see if theyre interested or not before trying to sell them one. like at a mass event people just come to the table and you sell them or you can cold approach people and start a convo and sell them, done that many times and its also how ive recruited a few comrades just walking up and talking to strangers at protests and if theyre interested selling them a paper or pamphlet or something. in small meetings or union meets and stuff like that its more having one on one convos and offering if someone seems interested. that being said you should always have some kind of lit on you to give or sell to people at all times. cant even count how many times ive been at work or someplace and had somebody start talking politics and we start talking and they end up being interested and i can sell them a paper or give them some free lit. not to sound like a brag but i sold a paper to a person at a small radical organizing meeting once and then 6 months later ran into them at another event. they said they came to that event specifically because they read our material and remembered me and what we talked about, guessed that i would be there and wanted to talk to me about joining our party. theyve been a member now for some years and theyre one of the most determined class fighters ive ever met. super active in their union and some other local labor orgs, never miss a party meeting like ever, constantly agitating for change. basically being sincere is prolly the most important quality a revolutionary can have
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Dec 14, 2019 05:10
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also apologies again for serious posting in the joke communism forum but i know a lot of people who their first exposure to left wing politics is through memes and jokes and poo poo and so i always feel like even in those spaces its important to talk earnestly sometimes about how to actually organize because theyre often isolated geographically or socially from irl organizing and so it can feel very alienating not knowing how to do things and youre only frame of reference for socialism and organizing is a bunch of ironic memes and anime twitter accounts arguing about poo poo you have no clue on
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Dec 14, 2019 05:14
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apropos to nothing posted:also apologies again for serious posting in the joke communism forum but i know a lot of people who their first exposure to left wing politics is through memes and jokes and poo poo and so i always feel like even in those spaces its important to talk earnestly sometimes about how to actually organize because theyre often isolated geographically or socially from irl organizing and so it can feel very alienating not knowing how to do things and youre only frame of reference for socialism and organizing is a bunch of ironic memes and anime twitter accounts arguing about poo poo you have no clue on new sincerity post
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Dec 14, 2019 05:23
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https://twitter.com/CarlBeijer/status/1205271561483276288
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Dec 14, 2019 07:09
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Atrocious Joe posted:every time the newspaper discourse starts in this thread I get reminded of the Spart I saw at a protest who was doing the classic hustle of "handing a person an object and then demanding money for it" to sell their papers newspapers aren't mutually exclusive from websites and magazines, and any respectable party paper should have its materials digitally available but there's something to be said about having a material object like a newspaper when tabling. for the uninitiated, it can be an intriguing novelty. I remember, for instance, the first time that I ever got offered a socialist newspaper after moving to Seattle, after growing up in the midwest. I was astounded to find that such a thing even existed in 21st century America. not everyone is as jaded as extremely online political posters, thank goodness I miss tabling. multiple circumstances have made it not possible for me to do so for about a year and a half
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Dec 14, 2019 07:34
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The movement corbyn built will outlive him. At the end of the day at least jezza can count on history to not be kind to his enemies considering what is ahead.
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Dec 14, 2019 08:37
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there's one of these but for trotskyist vs someone else somewhere e: whoops  e2: I do not endorse this image as i do not fully understand what is going on
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Dec 14, 2019 08:48
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a true Stalinist would say the USSR invading Poland was good, I call bullshit bullshit on this meme
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Dec 14, 2019 12:52
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:a true Stalinist would say the USSR invading Poland was good, I call bullshit Wasn't Trotsky for the Polish-Soviet war and Stalin against it?
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Dec 14, 2019 15:29
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smarxist posted:democratic centralism can't be good, very authoritarian Why would DemCent preclude ratfucking by group chat cliques
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Dec 14, 2019 15:47
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StashAugustine posted:Wasn't Trotsky for the Polish-Soviet war and Stalin against it? talking about 2 different things. theyre talking about the invasion of poland by the ussr and germany in ww2, youre thinking of the polish-soviet war which occurred at the end of the russian civil war in 1920. in that war it was more that as the red army established control over areas previously part of the russian empire especially in ukraine, the poles were trying to expand into the same territory and allied with ukrainian independence forces to invade the areas of the ukraine held by the russians. in many ways it was just an extension of the russian civil war. and yeah there were debates about how strongly to contest the war, especially once poland was defeated and driven out of ukraine because it sparked a political crisis and forced the reigning government to resign
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Dec 14, 2019 15:58
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apropos to nothing posted:talking about 2 different things. theyre talking about the invasion of poland by the ussr and germany in ww2, youre thinking of the polish-soviet war which occurred at the end of the russian civil war in 1920. in that war it was more that as the red army established control over areas previously part of the russian empire especially in ukraine, the poles were trying to expand into the same territory and allied with ukrainian independence forces to invade the areas of the ukraine held by the russians. in many ways it was just an extension of the russian civil war. and yeah there were debates about how strongly to contest the war, especially once poland was defeated and driven out of ukraine because it sparked a political crisis and forced the reigning government to resign Ah ok, I'm aware of the context I just wasn't reading all that text on the meme
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Dec 14, 2019 17:25
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