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jeremy corbyn is a beautiful man with a twinkle in his eye 308 - the number of hearts jeremy corbyn's smile will set aflutter today
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Dec 14, 2019 13:39
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Kerning Chameleon posted:Isn't Australia mandatory?
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Dec 14, 2019 13:40
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Guavanaut posted:No it just keeps existing despite our best efforts. I'll have you know we're putting a lot of effort in and Australia's days are numbered.
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Dec 14, 2019 13:42
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Guavanaut posted:No it just keeps existing despite our best efforts. 
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Dec 14, 2019 13:47
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Josef bugman posted:My brother and SIL are both much smarter than me and are currently actively looking to leave the UK and head for New Zealand. You don't know how smart you are Josef. From what I've seen from you when you're fired up, the answer is 'very'.
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Dec 14, 2019 13:52
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I must say thread, in the immediate aftermath of the election I was really on the edge. Knowing that my safe Labour town had gone conservative for the first time in 15+ years was a shock. How could the people I see every day, care so little for the growing number of drug addicts and homeless in out town centre. However after reading through the chat here, I have decided being miserable is not going to help these people. I'm just going to focus on what we can do to help instead. The more positive the message of resistance is the better.
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Dec 14, 2019 13:53
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If the conservative win inspires charity how do we prevent "well oiled society" type thinking. In the US the presidency has also put out the idea that it should be charities, not the state, that solve problems as a defence of capitalism. What if all this "parallel organisations" proves them right. Or a better question is how do we stop them putting their label on any increase in charity we see?
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Dec 14, 2019 14:00
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Azza Bamboo posted:If the conservative win inspires charity how do we prevent "well oiled society" type thinking. In the US the presidency has also put out the idea that it should be charities, not the state, that solve problems as a defence of capitalism. Put Labour's label on it instead. Brand the gently caress out of it.
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Dec 14, 2019 14:02
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Azza Bamboo posted:If the conservative win inspires charity how do we prevent "well oiled society" type thinking. In the US the presidency has also put out the idea that it should be charities, not the state, that solve problems as a defence of capitalism. The emphasis has to very firmly be that no-one should be in a position that requires charity, and any suggestion otherwise should be called out as pure, evil callousness. Calling that attitude out publicly for what it is is exactly what we need a more outspoken leader for.
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Dec 14, 2019 14:06
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the scale of the rout still hasn't fully sunk in tbh. we were completely outplayed. we all congratuled ourselves on the dawn of a new era wrt novara, momentum, etc, and forgot that the media apparatus in this country are old hands at this poo poo. they've been playing the long game for four years. and in a country thats like 85% white we need better propaganda strategies and we need to start fighting dirty if we want what we say we want. we also need to neutralise this ghoulish argument about labour "culturally alienating" their traditional base. what blairites and guardian dickheads mean by that is "you need to name a number wrt how many migrants and minorities you're willing to throw to the lions". there is no escaping that labour lost a lot of votes because they refused to pretend white british people were more equal than other kinds of british people. and i feel like a soft brexit option might have been an opportunity to blunt this frothing insanity; now when the tory brexit doesn't pay dividends and people start suffering, they'll want their daddy tories to make sure mr tosca or mrs patel up the street are suffering twice as much so it still feels worth it. grim times ahead.
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Dec 14, 2019 14:09
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I'm obviously partisan but I think the proper left explanation is the best one, why are people working, or denied work, and depending on charity? Where is their work going? Where is all the money their boss pays themself coming from?
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Dec 14, 2019 14:09
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Darth Walrus posted:Put Labour's label on it instead. Brand the gently caress out of it. This. Any charity needs to come as part of the building of parallel structures, so that people can clearly see where their support is coming from.
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Dec 14, 2019 14:09
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It would be good to have a UKMT-approved list of parallel organisations for people to volunteer with
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Dec 14, 2019 14:13
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soft brexit was always the best option but peoples vote had ridiculous media power because it had way more money behind it than any left wing cause ever did and created a massive culture war you just know the FBPE's are just going to continue to blame corbyn and labour for brexit winning the vote again now its done
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Dec 14, 2019 14:18
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If only they were centrists they could have won as many seats as the CUKTIGs.
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Dec 14, 2019 14:22
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The Director-General on the BBC's election coverage: https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/dec/14/bbc-staff-express-fear-of-public-distrust-after-election-coverage "We did a brilliant job and we need to take steps to limit people being able to criticise us!" Whenever a senior BBC figure speaks out, the defensiveness and complacency really shine through.
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Dec 14, 2019 14:22
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Pistol_Pete posted:The Director-General on the BBC's election coverage: lol at thinking conspiracy theory was a pejorative term in 2019. The year the elite murdered Epstein to cover up their paedophile ring.
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Dec 14, 2019 14:24
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remember when we were collectively shocked and awed by Momentum's ground game and how it was running circles around the old way of doing things
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Dec 14, 2019 14:25
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Things are going to get loving nasty very soon. We haven’t had a proper majority in yeeears and one slight hope is that the complacency of the tories now will allow scandal after sleaze to be uncovered, and the possibility of then a few by-elections from it. It’s going to be news of the world style poo poo all over again.
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Dec 14, 2019 14:30
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feedmegin posted:Um. For some value of 'resident'. My wife has been on an FLR (M) visa in the UK for the last 4 years and got to pay a £250 'NHS fee' at her last visa renewal. It's gone up since. Oh yeah that particular bit of Tory cuntery is pretty horrid. Still better than paying for a private insurance though, and IIRC people with ILR/without a visa don't have to pay.
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Dec 14, 2019 14:30
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il_cornuto posted:I see a lot of people acting like the majority of Britons are small minded racists voting against their own interests etc. When people show you who they are, believe them
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Dec 14, 2019 14:32
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gh0stpinballa posted:we also need to neutralise this ghoulish argument about labour "culturally alienating" their traditional base. what blairites and guardian dickheads mean by that is "you need to name a number wrt how many migrants and minorities you're willing to throw to the lions". there is no escaping that labour lost a lot of votes because they refused to pretend white british people were more equal than other kinds of british people. and i feel like a soft brexit option might have been an opportunity to blunt this frothing insanity; now when the tory brexit doesn't pay dividends and people start suffering, they'll want their daddy tories to make sure mr tosca or mrs patel up the street are suffering twice as much so it still feels worth it. grim times ahead. The people want a Socialism that's more National, you say?   But yeah I agree we need to get around that one and quickly. We're not a loving nazi party and trying to be one will just see us flop uselessly back to printing mugs that say CONTROLS ON IMMIGRATION while the tories run even further to the right. I don't know what the solution is, but it's not pandering to white racism.
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Dec 14, 2019 14:37
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Yeah, the Tories are going the Republican Party route: concentrate on the white nationalist vote and use voter suppression, gerrymandering and apathy to keep everyone else down. Considering how different the US and UK are, it's striking how political developments here are mirroring those in the states.
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Dec 14, 2019 14:41
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Sloth Life posted:I just loving despair The only thing that mattered: 
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Dec 14, 2019 14:42
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They have followed a very similar political trajectory for the past 50 years or so, at some point that becomes causitive.
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Dec 14, 2019 14:42
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I really blame blair to be honest. Squandering that win on managerial capitalism and wars, and now people have just stopped thinking politics does anything, that the country just runs itself whatever they say.
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Dec 14, 2019 14:45
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The Republicans realised in the early 2010's that white Christian Americans were shrinking as a proportion of the population and would soon become a minority. A strand of conservative thinking developed the idea that the Republicans should reach out to black and Hispanic communities (who shared many of their traditional values) and expand their voting base that way. The Republicans actually opted for option b, which was to retreat into white nationalism, fire up their base and do their best to prevent everyone else from voting. It's an interesting example of a path not taken and I can see the Tories following the same script here.
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Dec 14, 2019 14:45
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ronya posted:remember when we were collectively shocked and awed by Momentum's ground game and how it was running circles around the old way of doing things I think the experience of 2017 really led the left down a lot of wrong garden paths - it seems like a bunch of things (tighter manifesto, Labour being seen as the insurgents against an establishment Tory government, the media not really taking Corbyn seriously) may have masked the fact that ground campaigning doesn't seem to matter as much as everyone thought it did. Momentum are the real losers here as their entire strategy has been a failure (though it should be said Labour still held onto some gains like Canterbury) and it's going to be interesting to see what happens if their star does fall as there doesn't currently seem to be much to replace them, although that will depend a lot on who replaces Corbyn as leader. I also wonder what the Lib Dems are going to do since even though they gained some vote share this election the Ashcroft polling indicates something like a quarter of votes for them were tactical, which on top of losing 10 seats doesn't exactly bode well. Ed Davey seems like basically the only choice for leader there and I cannot imagine him changing course at all. MikeCrotch fucked around with this message at 14:47 on Dec 14, 2019 |
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Dec 14, 2019 14:45
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ronya posted:remember when we were collectively shocked and awed by Momentum's ground game and how it was running circles around the old way of doing things It was a necessary strategic development to cope with the dismissive and negative nature of national discourse around the Labour project/manifesto in 2017 and avoided a serious defeat, all 2019 showed is that it's not sufficient to rely on it only during an election campaign when the gloves are completely off. People knocking on doors will get the voters out in good time, it doesn't rewrite the narrative they experience every other moment of the day and make them Labour voters.
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Dec 14, 2019 14:46
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Braggart posted:You don't know how smart you are Josef. From what I've seen from you when you're fired up, the answer is 'very'. Thanks Braggart. Must admit, you've been a real help these past few months and I really appreciate it. Also got a message from Corbyn today saying how proud he is of the work we've all done. I'm very sad, but yeah the only choice is to carry on standing until we die. Nothing else will do. Josef bugman fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Dec 14, 2019 |
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Dec 14, 2019 14:49
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ronya posted:remember when we were collectively shocked and awed by Momentum's ground game and how it was running circles around the old way of doing things Remember when you weren't a loving smug prick? I don't.
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Dec 14, 2019 14:51
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https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1205821023267897344
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Dec 14, 2019 14:52
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There's still a place for ground-level campaigning, but they need a *lot* more support from local CLPs to do it effectively. In Two Cities I was given a pretty good rundown of what the problems were in the area and what points needed emphasis, but in Thurrock and Battersea it was just like "thanks for turning up, go with that person with the binder". I'm pretty good at bullshitting my way through on minimal information (I know, shocker) but a lot of first-timers were left dangling.
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Dec 14, 2019 14:52
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Took a day off of following the news and now I'm dreading trying to catch up. Hell my home town went from Conservative to SNP, I should be happier about that. Having the north sea between me and events numbs positives and negatives I guess. Just sad about what the next 5 years will bring for my family and friends in the old country. I don't know poo poo about Dave Doogan either. Guess I should find out.
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Dec 14, 2019 14:52
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ronya posted:remember when we were collectively shocked and awed by Momentum's ground game and how it was running circles around the old way of doing things You're right, what Labour absolutely needs to do is tell young people wanting to help to sit down, shut up, and wait for the Big Brains to work out exactly how far to turn the racism dial.
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Dec 14, 2019 14:54
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We need the same hero in oz as you do, UKMT
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Dec 14, 2019 14:56
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https://twitter.com/election_data/status/1205522031141380096 https://twitter.com/StrongerInNos/status/1205537750608437248 I suspect a little polling butterfly did whisper this in relevant ears midway through the campaign, hence the sudden WASPI attack line. But the WASPI pledge was not well-delivered - the question of how it was supposed to be paid for deserved an answer, not contempt. The supposed National Care Service would also have needed bigger billing, rather than the splashy free broadband pledge (which wound up being the only thing focus groups could recall...) forkboy84 posted:Remember when you weren't a loving smug prick? I actually think the ground game was effective, but it needed to have a more modest manifesto. Maybe not to the extent of a Blair-flavoured "five pledges, that's it" but 2017 was successful in a way 2019 was not... and the marginal constituency targetting needed to be more accurate for this incredibly costly-in-volunteer-time-and-effort "knock on every single damned door" effort to pay off... the after-action reports trickling out do seem to agree that Labour targeted CON seats it could not actually flip rather than the LAB marginals it went on to lose... too many folks in HQ drinking the koolaid on the permanent Labour majority. That's red meat for the StatsForLefties true believers, but deadly if people assigning target seats actually buy into it
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Dec 14, 2019 14:59
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goddamnedtwisto posted:You're right, what Labour absolutely needs to do is tell young people wanting to help to sit down, shut up, and wait for the Big Brains to work out exactly how far to turn the racism dial. she poo poo on them all campaign and guess what also supported/helped owen smith's campaign to be leader https://twitter.com/ayeshahazarika/status/1205505745355034636
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Dec 14, 2019 15:03
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Guava, can you take me out of the CLP list in the OP please going forward? Ta
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Dec 14, 2019 15:03
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ronya posted:I actually think the ground game was effective, but it needed to have a more modest manifesto. No poo poo you do. Of course you think the ideal manifesto is one that makes no difference. No tolerance for smug Blairite gloating.
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Dec 14, 2019 15:06
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