Jerry Cotton posted:What fyad posters 
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Dec 14, 2019 20:45
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still cackling at FYAD being destroyed because several posters got really into Blanchard's typology in a sincere and unironic way
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Dec 14, 2019 21:00
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CascadeBeta posted:It's about ethics in bigotry apology. I don't think anyone has really laid out exactly what would put this conflict to bed. Do you think you could do so? What exactly is the expectation of behavior that will be regarded as a good faith effort to fix things around here? edit: This is really open to anybody, just wondering what the next step past apologies should look like.
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Dec 14, 2019 21:30
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It's pretty loving simple: ban bigotry. Not the ones so far, I mean all of it. This isn't difficult, except that there are some mods that are the bigots, too. Being an apologist with bigots means you're at least a little yourself, otherwise why entertain the idea even for discussion? "Yeah, only a little poo poo got into the brownies. They're still 99% poo poo-free. Why can't we discuss maybe eating them?" Mate, that's still a poo poo-brownie. Queen Combat has a new favorite as of 21:35 on Dec 14, 2019 |
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Dec 14, 2019 21:32
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Sid Vicious posted:I really dont think that is what thread is for im agreeing with Sid again!!!!
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Dec 14, 2019 21:33
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Kawasaki Nun posted:I don't think anyone has really laid out exactly what would put this conflict to bed. Do you think you could do so? What exactly is the expectation of behavior that will be regarded as a good faith effort to fix things around here? Personally, I’d expect them to keep a close eye out for bigotry and stomp it out harshly, which they have been doing pretty well so far in my opinion. If they’re going to reopen FYAD, then they should make sure it is supervised so that transphobia, homophobia, and the like, “ironic” or not, do not crop up again. Does that go against the spirit of FYAD? Yes, but if the head honcho is insistent on keeping it open it’s either that or allow it to continue to operate under the system of “self-policing” that allowed what we saw before to come to pass.
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Dec 14, 2019 21:34
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fail saga
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Dec 14, 2019 21:39
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Ariong posted:Personally, I’d expect them to keep a close eye out for bigotry and stomp it out harshly, which they have been doing pretty well so far in my opinion. If they’re going to reopen FYAD, then they should make sure it is supervised so that transphobia, homophobia, and the like, “ironic” or not, do not crop up again. Does that go against the spirit of FYAD? Yes, but if the head honcho is insistent on keeping it open it’s either that or allow it to continue to operate under the system of “self-policing” that allowed what we saw before to come to pass. That seems like a very reasonable demand and hopefully is the direction everything is headed in. Queen Combat posted:It's pretty loving simple: ban bigotry. Not the ones so far, I mean all of it. This isn't difficult, except that there are some mods that are the bigots, too. I understand the sentiment and purpose behind "ban bigotry" but that's a wide enough mandate that I think it'd really need to be fleshed about with a little bit more particularity, lest we end up in the same situation with mods not actively enforcing the rules because they either don't see or care about what bigotry is taking place.
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Dec 14, 2019 21:40
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Kawasaki Nun posted:That seems like a very reasonable demand and hopefully is the direction everything is headed in. That's not a problem with the rule, that's a problem with the people enforcing the rules.
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Dec 14, 2019 21:43
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Kawasaki Nun posted:That seems like a very reasonable demand and hopefully is the direction everything is headed in. When you do it with too much specificity then you get rules lawyered and "but whatabout"ed
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Dec 14, 2019 21:44
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Then what is the acceptable change that will put all this to rest? If you can't articulate what you want then isn't this process just gonna be shots in the dark until something sticks?
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Dec 14, 2019 21:48
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Gone Fashing posted:im agreeing with Sid again!!!! Are you okay lol
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Dec 14, 2019 21:49
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Tashilicious posted:When you do it with too much specificity then you get rules lawyered and "but whatabout"ed At least SA has the "gently caress you, that's why" clause to deal with rules lawyering.
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Dec 14, 2019 21:51
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Kawasaki Nun posted:Then what is the acceptable change that will put all this to rest? If you can't articulate what you want then isn't this process just gonna be shots in the dark until something sticks? Not really the thread for it mostly. And everytime we do try it somehow mysteriously gets drowned out in bad faith questions that are just being asked, outright trolls, and clear incitements at posters prone to getting mad quickly. So I guess the first thing is to get some actual discussion feedback and transparency from the mods and admins. In a place where the enforcement of rules against trolling, bad faith arguments, and clear incitements are dealt with quickly. Which apparently is nowhere on these forums so.
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Dec 14, 2019 21:52
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So if Im understanding this correctly the problem with FYAD has revealed a deeper issue with how the forums are administrated and the moderation issue has to be addressed before any real progress on the FYAD issue can get moving? Is that more or less the state of things?
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Dec 14, 2019 21:55
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Kawasaki Nun posted:Then what is the acceptable change that will put all this to rest? If you can't articulate what you want then isn't this process just gonna be shots in the dark until something sticks? I already said in my qcs post what I feel the issues are with how this has all been handled: while some of the mods have voiced support and solidarity, and Bird has been doing a lot of the heavy lifting for bans and probations, none of the other admins have actually reached out to the SA Trans community to show support or apologize for how this whole thing has gone down, how long it took for probations and bans to go out on posters spewing open transphobia and nothing has been addressed with what's going to happen in 26 days or whatever when most of those posters get off of probations. We feel lost in the dark right now. The one statement that's been made wasn't about how hosed up it was that people did this to trans people on this site, it was about fyad and talked in vague concepts about its 'original mission', which does nothing to make me feel any better considering the kind of poo poo you can find from SA's early years. At best it looks like they don't care about us and think this was handled adequately, and at worst they actively support it behind the scenes and are just waiting for the fallout to blow over so they can quietly go back to the way things were. I know I speak for more than a few people when I say that we really need to know what's going on, what decisions are being made and how they're going to prevent this from happening next month, let alone in the future. So far we have less than nothing.
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Dec 14, 2019 21:56
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Kawasaki Nun posted:So if Im understanding this correctly the problem with FYAD has revealed a deeper issue with how the forums are administrated and the moderation issue has to be addressed before any real progress on the FYAD issue can get moving? Is that more or less the state of things? "Insufficient moderation" is a major problem in several subforums yes.
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Dec 14, 2019 21:57
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Tashilicious posted:Not really the thread for it mostly. And everytime we do try it somehow mysteriously gets drowned out in bad faith questions that are just being asked, outright trolls, and clear incitements at posters prone to getting mad quickly. Yeah one of the major reasons why this ended up being so messy is that QCS was largely considered a no-man's land rife with disingenuous, bad faith, distracting, and off-topic posting that escalated beyond control when a divisive topic condemning forums culture came into play
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Dec 14, 2019 21:58
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The other part of it is that it's clearly not just a FYAD problem because exhibit a. That loving gbs thread right now.
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Dec 14, 2019 21:58
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So how about that groverhouse eh
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Dec 14, 2019 22:00
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Kawasaki Nun posted:So if Im understanding this correctly the problem with FYAD has revealed a deeper issue with how the forums are administrated and the moderation issue has to be addressed before any real progress on the FYAD issue can get moving? Is that more or less the state of things? Yes. This was clear by day two and thread number six where trolling, abuse and gaslighting was rampant, no word from anyone except a few individual mods going "We are discussing it please stand by", and no action until all the hammers came down at once, except over a further two days because no one was touching the moderation queue so it swelled to over 300 reports for QCS alone.
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Dec 14, 2019 22:01
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One thing I'd like to see is at least one mod that isn't incapable of seeing through the most tissue-thin dogwhistles and "I'm not touching you" bullshit.
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Dec 14, 2019 22:07
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Sid Vicious posted:So how about that groverhouse eh more like grovertoilet!
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Dec 14, 2019 22:07
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Sid Vicious posted:Are you okay lol just joshin mate
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Dec 14, 2019 22:07
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Sid Vicious posted:So how about that groverhouse eh I wish I could beam my knowledge of that god awful house to others so I wouldn't look insane when trying to explain it to someone
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Dec 14, 2019 22:08
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Kawasaki Nun posted:Then what is the acceptable change that will put all this to rest? If you can't articulate what you want then isn't this process just gonna be shots in the dark until something sticks? It really can be as simple as just “no bigotry” as long as the mods and admins have a good attitude about enforcing that rule. That is the idea which has guided the SA forums all these years: You don’t need to have a highly specific set of rules that cover every little detail of what is and is not allowed. All you need is a set of bullet points on what not to do, a general “don’t be an rear end in a top hat” catch-all, and most importantly, competent mods and admins who know when and where to lay down the law. For literal decades, the forums have remained relatively free of the sort of bad-faith rules lawyering which drags down online discussions and allows bigots and shitheads to eke out spaces for themselves. The system works. We just need to make good use of it. EDIT: By the way, if you want to see what those bad-faith rules lawyers look like in action, go ahead and check out the recent QCS threads on the FYAD thing. There’s no shortage of people demanding to know exactly what rule they’re breaking and exactly where the line is drawn, despite SA having never worked like that. Ariong has a new favorite as of 22:17 on Dec 14, 2019 |
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Dec 14, 2019 22:10
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Consummate Professional posted:I wish I could beam my knowledge of that god awful house to others so I wouldn't look insane when trying to explain it to someone Show them a fellow goons video! Which i cannot find right now but I daresay someone will post the "Well there's your problem"
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Dec 14, 2019 22:11
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Consummate Professional posted:I wish I could beam my knowledge of that god awful house to others so I wouldn't look insane when trying to explain it to someone Reality show where bEatmstrJ and Grover build a house while Tiny Brontosaurus gives them design tips.
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Dec 14, 2019 22:12
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Hub Cat posted:Reality show where bEatmstrJ and Grover build a house while Tiny Brontosaurus gives them design tips. lol
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Dec 14, 2019 22:13
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Well I certainly can't disagree that the mods and admins are disappointing, hopefully this all gets addressed soon.
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Dec 14, 2019 22:13
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Tashilicious posted:Show them a fellow goons video! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVUTVfHcc7c And here it is!
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Dec 14, 2019 22:14
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Bird and I have already said this, multiple times and as clearly as possible, but this thread is not a substitute for QCS, and endlessly litigating recent events wouldn't be productive or helpful even if QCS were currently open. The remit of this thread is pretty clear; we've allowed for some topical slop because the forums have been wholly occupied by a single blazing elephant, but that's really enough for now, at least as far as this thread is concerned. I much prefer to ask nicely and see the community right itself, but probations are coming for people who can't or won't drop this subject here.
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Dec 14, 2019 22:20
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Edit: bad timing, never mind.
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Dec 14, 2019 22:21
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Kawasaki Nun posted:Well I certainly can't disagree that the mods and admins are disappointing, hopefully this all gets addressed soon. What the gently caress is your agenda in here? Stop this poo poo
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Dec 14, 2019 22:23
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Every time I feel a bit rundown I like to read the Muerta thread. In short a guy decides to walk across america to find himself but instead of doing hiking trails is gonna walk down like texas motorways and poo poo with a shopping trolley and jug of water. he admits he only ever eats pizza and is bringing a fake gun to scare off baddies but then he can't be arrested for gun crimes either  https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3714480&pagenumber=1&perpage=40#post444237339
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Dec 14, 2019 22:32
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Where can I catch up on this lowtax kidnapping thing
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Dec 14, 2019 22:36
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Pastry of the Year posted:Bird and I have already said this, multiple times and as clearly as possible, but this thread is not a substitute for QCS, and endlessly litigating recent events wouldn't be productive or helpful even if QCS were currently open. Not to mod sass, but what can you expect when every single place to discuss this has been taken away by bad faith actors?
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Dec 14, 2019 22:37
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Can we use this never ending turmoil in every damned thread to acknowledge, once and for all, that the hands down greatest sports moment in the last decade was when the Chicago Blackhawks scored two goals in 17 seconds to win the 2013 Stanley Cup? Trigger warning for Bruin's fans: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXx6_7fpnKM
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Dec 14, 2019 22:37
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Solice Kirsk posted:Can we use this never ending turmoil in every damned thread to acknowledge, once and for all, that the hands down greatest sports moment in the last decade was when the Chicago Blackhawks scored two goals in 17 seconds to win the 2013 Stanley Cup? On the one hand, gently caress the blackhawks. On the other, gently caress the Bruins so much more that it cannot be counted.
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Dec 14, 2019 22:39
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A Canadiens fan?!
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Dec 14, 2019 22:43
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