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hakimashou posted:From the columnist who predicted this disaster and was right when he warned what corbyn was doing to labour years ago: https://twitter.com/NickCohen4/status/1203226501702926336 https://twitter.com/davidcoppin/status/1204718455204777984?s=19
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Dec 15, 2019 11:24
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https://twitter.com/davidgraeber/status/1206147181666820096
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Dec 15, 2019 11:27
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gradenko_2000 posted:*Corbyn refuses to commit to leaving an undemocratic, neoliberal institution controlled by German bankers* french pols seem to think he lost because he was antisemitic or islamist lol what a useless country i live in
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Dec 15, 2019 11:28
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Kurtofan posted:french pols seem to think he lost because he was antisemitic or islamist lol what a useless country i live in at least you didn't vote tory or did u
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Dec 15, 2019 11:35
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lorn Wayne posted:at least you didn't vote tory i can't vote i'm not from britain or in britain
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Dec 15, 2019 11:36
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Kurtofan posted:i can't vote i'm not from britain or in britain when has that stopped anyone
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Dec 15, 2019 11:37
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genericnick posted:What you keep willfully ignoring is that the exact same leadership got a vastly better result in 2017 with broadly the same policies and campaign in in the face of the same right-wing smear campaign. It didn't stick then. The only thing that changed is the Brexit position and the Tories' categorical refusal to discuss any policy. Of course the Leadership looks shifty if they change their position on the one thing that dominates all news coverage. That’s not really true. This campaign featured lots of new policies constantly being announced, a different and much less effective slogan, and lacked a clear central message (esp compared to Tory message discipline). Labour had allowed the antisemitism issue to fester unresolved for two years (and even if people don’t care about the issue the signals it sends about rigidity and the inability to deal with a problem are bad). Brexit was obviously a factor, as I’ve said, but I can’t believe people won’t acknowledge it wasn’t the only factor given the polling figures. On the other hand, there was a totally untrustworthy opponent, the country had suffered a further two years of austerity and hostile environment etc, and the Labour vote share still plummeted.
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Dec 15, 2019 11:44
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hmm yes the very real and true labour antisemitism issue, if only the leadership could do the one clever trick that makes right wing media stop lying about leftists
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Dec 15, 2019 11:51
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must have been nice to have a serious challenger to the status quo. ah well, nevertheless
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Dec 15, 2019 11:52
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Kurtofan posted:i can't vote i'm not from britain or in britain millions of french folk walked through the chunnel to vote illegally for bojo before heading back for a breakfast of black coffee and baguettes, so i hear 
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Dec 15, 2019 11:54
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it looks close on the map. i assume what like 20-30 minutes max to mozy on foot under the bitich channel?? 
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Dec 15, 2019 11:55
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Bulgakov posted:millions of french folk walked through the chunnel to vote illegally for bojo before heading back for a breakfast of black coffee and baguettes, so i hear i would'nt be surprised if the french people in london were mostly pieces of poo poo
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Dec 15, 2019 12:07
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RottenK posted:hmm yes the very real and true labour antisemitism issue, if only the leadership could do the one clever trick that makes right wing media stop lying about leftists Would that be the nonexistent issue that McDonnell, Naz Shah, and Len McCluskey amongst others have all acknowledged?
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Dec 15, 2019 12:09
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what part of "you already let the mask slip, gently caress off liberal" was unclear to you
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Dec 15, 2019 12:12
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RottenK posted:hmm yes the very real and true labour antisemitism issue, if only the leadership could do the one clever trick that makes right wing media stop lying about leftists so burn down daily mail and guardian hq got it
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Dec 15, 2019 12:12
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therattle posted:Would that be the nonexistent issue that McDonnell, Naz Shah, and Len McCluskey amongst others have all acknowledged? yes, and trying to appease the lying media was a sign of weakness because the media just kept lying anyways, as they always do lorn Wayne posted:so god no, that would be a crime now if the entire press went up on fire spontaneously and with no connection to labour, that'd be great
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Dec 15, 2019 12:14
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i think the one thing corbyn got wrong is when he went on tv and screamed at a team of rabbis 'I HATE JEWS. HATE EM. THIS IS ME CORBYN, SAYING THIS' definite misstep, imo
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Dec 15, 2019 12:14
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therattle posted:Would that be the nonexistent issue that McDonnell, Naz Shah, and Len McCluskey amongst others have all acknowledged? I mean the issue went away as soon as they acknowledged it, right?
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Dec 15, 2019 12:16
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Corby and Labour just needed a snappy, quippy message to counter the Tories message discipline. I'm thinking "HOLOCAUST 2.0!" would have a certain je ne sais quoi
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Dec 15, 2019 12:17
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Kurtofan posted:i would'nt be surprised if the french people in london were mostly pieces of poo poo Yeah but they're probably overwhelmingly FBPE types
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Dec 15, 2019 12:20
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Yinlock posted:what part of "you already let the mask slip, gently caress off liberal" was unclear to you A number of senior Labour figures, and even JC himself (grudgingly, belatedly) have acknowledged that antisemitism was an issue and badly handled. You can pretend this isn’t the case and had no bearing on how voters perceived Corbyn but that doesn’t stop it being true. Even if a filthy verminous liberal points it out. I am not sure what mask you’re referring to anyway; my dislike of Corbyn was made clear at the outset. I’m desperately disappointed Labour lost so badly, and I think he and his faction have a lot of responsibility for it. gradenko_2000 posted:I mean the issue went away as soon as they acknowledged it, right? No, because even after eventually acknowledging it it was badly handled, thus allowing it to run and run. And the longer it tom for Corbyn to acknowledge, the worse it looked. Even if he didn’t believe the allegations (I don’t know either way) at least McDonnell had the political nous to recognise that the perception that there was a problem had to be addressed. therattle has issued a correction as of 12:24 on Dec 15, 2019 |
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Dec 15, 2019 12:21
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therattle posted:A number of senior Labour figures, and even JC himself (grudgingly, belatedly) have acknowledged that antisemitism was an issue and badly handled. You can pretend this isn’t the case and had no bearing on how voters perceived Corbyn but that doesn’t stop it being true. Even if a filthy verminous liberal points it out. I am not sure what mask you’re referring to anyway; my dislike of Corbyn was made clear at the outset. I’m desperately disappointed Labour lost so badly, and I think he and his faction have a lot of responsibility for it. reminder that before corbyn got control of the NEC the complaints team were deliberately loving up complaints of antisemitism to discredit him https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/leaked-emails-reveal-labours-compliance-unit-took-months-to
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Dec 15, 2019 12:26
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the mask was the idea that you're engaging in even remotely good faith instead of just regurgitating smears you read in the guardian
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Dec 15, 2019 12:26
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therattle posted:The IRA was probably more relevant to British voters, but yes. You might not like it but it’s there. There was a campaign to promote the view that Corbyn supported the IRA (which it seems he did, at least to a degree), because Tories knew it would work. https://twitter.com/demarionunn/status/1206168845897080832
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Dec 15, 2019 12:26
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69% of british people want imperialism and the british empire actually taught in schools. because of course its not right now. i learned of the suez crisis long after i finished school
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Dec 15, 2019 12:29
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if I’m elected pm ill divert all trident funding into arming the IRA
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Dec 15, 2019 12:33
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Woe betide Britane
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Dec 15, 2019 12:35
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Yinlock posted:the mask was the idea that you're engaging in even remotely good faith instead of just regurgitating smears you read in the guardian It’s not a mask. I want Labour to do well. I think the Tories are disgusting and Johnson even worse. The word evil is overused but it probably applies to him and people like Patel. I can have sincere beliefs and opinions which are counter to yours. That doesn’t make me operating in bad faith. I have also posted polling data which supports my argument. I have not really seen anything in response. I could as easily say that you are all operating in bad faith and repeating hagiography you read in the Canary or Skawkbox. For instance: quote:The Observer’s pollsters Opinium have revealed their own analysis of the reasons people rejected Labour: 43% cited the leadership, 17% its policy on Brexit, and 12% its economic policies. Among Labour defectors – those who voted Labour in 2017 but didn’t this time – 37% mentioned the leadership, 21% Brexit and 6% its economic policies. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/general-election-result-jeremy-corbyn-brexit-labour-boris-johnson-a9246046.html?amp quote:Among Labour voters who switched allegiances to the Tories, 45 per cent cited Mr Corbyn’s leadership as the main issue while 29 per cent of those who defected to the Liberal Democrats did so.
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Dec 15, 2019 12:35
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Jose posted:69% of british people want imperialism and the british empire actually taught in schools. because of course its not right now. i learned of the suez crisis long after i finished school Suez Crisis is the bad bits, they want to hear about how we saved everyone with railways. That said, I think we do need to be stronger on looking normal when it comes to cultural stuff like watching the Queen's Speech. It's a subtle gap between liking British stuff and being a gammon though.
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Dec 15, 2019 12:35
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eta until smoked honey glazed gammons are available for the holidays???
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Dec 15, 2019 12:37
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therattle posted:These aren’t opinions. They are facts which are steadfastly ignored. you saying the issue is corbyn and not a wall of lies is an opinion choosing to ignore facts the "problem" was the lie, which it is fair to say we didn't deal with. Handing the party back to less competent people isn't a solution.
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Dec 15, 2019 12:37
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Nobody watches the queen's speech or gives a poo poo and his answer was bad
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Dec 15, 2019 12:38
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we too have sincere beliefs and opinions and one of those beliefs is "we hate your entire ideology and will never support you again", there's nothing you can say that's going to make the left stop hating blairism or want to give any power to a centrist backstabber
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Dec 15, 2019 12:38
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The BBC getting brutally owned lol https://twitter.com/JohnSimpsonNews/status/1206010631763234817?s=19
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Dec 15, 2019 12:42
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Its definitely fair to say "lets hope the albatross of JC's polling is washed away in a campaign just like in 2017" was, in retrospect, a bad idea to combine with "lets not campaign in the north" and here we are Again, giving any semblence of power to anyone whose bright ideas just cost us 42 seats, not a solution.
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Dec 15, 2019 12:42
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Jose posted:The BBC getting brutally owned lol lmao they spent the entire election sabotaging labour and bootlicking tories and they still get this because they weren't bootlicking hard enough for the right's tastes
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Dec 15, 2019 12:47
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RottenK posted:we too have sincere beliefs and opinions and one of those beliefs is "we hate your entire ideology and will never support you again", there's nothing you can say that's going to make the left stop hating blairism or want to give any power to a centrist backstabber
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Dec 15, 2019 12:51
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RottenK posted:we too have sincere beliefs and opinions and one of those beliefs is "we hate your entire ideology and will never support you again", there's nothing you can say that's going to make the left stop hating blairism or want to give any power to a centrist backstabber https://youtu.be/kHHitXxH-us
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Dec 15, 2019 13:09
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Fun reminder that talking to the IRA, those dudes we made peace with, is bad, because Brits don't think dialogue with an enemy is ever legit
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Dec 15, 2019 13:09
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liberalism and leftism are literally two different, separate ideologies, nice try lib
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Dec 15, 2019 13:11
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