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how did 1917 turn out the way it did? the answer was obvious even in his youth
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Dec 15, 2019 17:15
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Venom Snake posted:btw the difference here between gaining 70 seats and losing 70 is literally + or - 5% thanks to fptp and vote splitting 4 different ways so everytime someone talks about LABOR COLLAPSING UNDER CORBYN what they mean is literally doing around ~1% worse on average AND that it's only thanks to jezza for some reason look this is blue labour's one chance to go back to the good old days of pretending to do things for poors instead of actually doing them, would you take this from them
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Dec 15, 2019 17:24
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A Gnarlacious Bro posted:You guys should act more normal and do normal stuff and say normal things imo, that’s what normal people like No, all labour needs is exactly the right soundbyte for those idiot proles so they don't vote wrong.
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Dec 15, 2019 17:25
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Bip Roberts posted:now do I was under the impression Libdems were campaigning on Remain?
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Dec 15, 2019 17:28
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the lib dems had the weirdest brexit position in that it was an obvious fringe position that made even alastair campbell recoil
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Dec 15, 2019 17:33
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though again, to reiterate, possibly the worst gut-punch of this election for me is that it proves, conclusively, that the right doesn't need to have any sort of environmental policy. they can just ignore the whole issue and still win. we can be absolutely certain that this is going to be noticed.
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Dec 15, 2019 17:37
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Mr Havafap posted:I was under the impression Libdems were campaigning on Remain? Remain But There's No Way We'll Remain Under Corbyn. the only way to make their leadership's position something other than total contrarian madness (which, being lib Dems, is absolutely a possibility) is if they thought corbyn was more frightening than brexit
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Dec 15, 2019 17:42
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V. Illych L. posted:though again, to reiterate, possibly the worst gut-punch of this election for me is that it proves, conclusively, that the right doesn't need to have any sort of environmental policy. they can just ignore the whole issue and still win. we can be absolutely certain that this is going to be noticed. They don't need a policy but they will have to deal with the consequences. That's not reassuring from a migration perspective but they will need to develop some economic response as the agricultural and logistical challenges mount, there's still a battleground there even if they won't directly address it and potentially the more they avoid it the more it becomes a weakness for them.
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Dec 15, 2019 17:45
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Mr Havafap posted:I was under the impression Libdems were campaigning on Remain? In theory they mostly seemed to campaign on making up bogus numbers and insisting that only they could win based on said obvious fantasies. In practise, of course, this meant that they were mostly campaigning on splitting the anti-Tory vote.
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Dec 15, 2019 17:49
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V. Illych L. posted:though again, to reiterate, possibly the worst gut-punch of this election for me is that it proves, conclusively, that the right doesn't need to have any sort of environmental policy. they can just ignore the whole issue and still win. we can be absolutely certain that this is going to be noticed. the only thing this election proves conclusively is that brexit is what people cared about most
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Dec 15, 2019 17:51
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Mr Havafap posted:I was under the impression Libdems were campaigning on Remain? Yeah and they campaigned on getting rid of school fees and everyone saw how much of a gently caress they give about what they campaign on if a tory demands something from them in a posh accent
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Dec 15, 2019 17:54
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Yinlock posted:the only thing this election proves conclusively is that brexit is what people cared about most yeah exactly there's always going to be some Big Issue, and at this rate it's looking like it's never going to be the actual existential problems of the day
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Dec 15, 2019 17:55
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V. Illych L. posted:yeah exactly Religion solves that stuff
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Dec 15, 2019 17:55
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V. Illych L. posted:yeah exactly it's kind of hard to care about long-term problems, no matter how insanely important, when your entire country is crumbling
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Dec 15, 2019 18:00
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OK. In my mind, were Britain a normal country with proportional representation Labour would be attempting to form a government with the Libdems and the SNP right now. Not saying they would succeed, the Libdems would probably gently caress off to try and form a government with the Tories on a Remain by Brexit, end austerity by ending public spending idea. But still.
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Dec 15, 2019 18:02
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Mr Havafap posted:OK. yeah you lost me at this part
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Dec 15, 2019 18:05
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if britain were a country with PR, the labour party would've been a neoliberal shitpile polling around 20% and corbyn might've been leader of a socialist party with 10-15%. it's a better system, but the westminster system is what keeps the british parties together
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Dec 15, 2019 18:05
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Yinlock posted:it's kind of hard to care about long-term problems, no matter how insanely important, when your entire country is crumbling Eh Labour 2019 manifesto was an attempt to weld the rebuilding of the country to the obvious and impending challenges of climate change and it wasn't taken up with enthusiasm by the electorate because of failures at a few levels as a consequence of a few decades of previous failures. Ironically the USA might avoid this fate for Bernie by having their election campaigns last for years meaning there's enough time to embed the policy ideas.
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Dec 15, 2019 18:06
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A Gnarlacious Bro posted:Religion solves that stuff Brexit is a religion now
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Dec 15, 2019 18:23
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My understanding is that the manifesto is actually very popular, it's just the Brexit and the party split hosed Labour up
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Dec 15, 2019 18:24
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Britain would never have voted for PR. Too foreign
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Dec 15, 2019 18:24
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yeah labour stopped talking about the green industrial revolution about halfway through the campaign, presumably because it just wasn't playing well in the polls/focus groups. a lot of labour's policies are very popular in isolation. expanded bus service in rural areas and rail nationalisation in particular. these things were hardly discussed in the press, though those they did try hard to push until the very end
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Dec 15, 2019 18:28
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the diseased soul of the anglo craves domination and destitution and they have voted accordingly. folks,, this is democracy in action
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Dec 15, 2019 18:28
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also we rejected any voting reform in 2011, for these reasons     
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Dec 15, 2019 18:30
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Grapplejack posted:My understanding is that the manifesto is actually very popular, it's just the Brexit and the party split hosed Labour up it wasn't great strategically though, it had too much stuff in it and was just a scattershot of good policies with no real driving single idea or narrative, there were a couple candidates but they kept being switched out and changed up during the election. in the end people could only remember free broadband which isn't a rallying cry for anyone
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Dec 15, 2019 18:34
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i mean labour was selling the idea of transforming britain, and the manifesto was a genuinely credible programme for doing that - you can't transform a country with two or three policies, after all. the broadband thing in particular is a really good idea and i suspect it was labour trying to emphasise the benefits of an active state for doing things. in retrospect, though, they should've hammered home the points about buses and trains
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Dec 15, 2019 18:46
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like, they were expecting people to intuit why this was a good idea and that they could explain *why* it was a good idea rather than it suddenly being framed as an attempt at bribery
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Dec 15, 2019 18:48
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hakimashou posted:I remember asking a while ago for someone to explain labour's position on brexit and it didnt seem like anyone could. There was some kind of list of bullet points but some of them seemed as fantastical or internally contradictory as the tory ones. Negotiate a Brexit deal that isn't garbage. Hold a referendum between that deal and Remain. Sorry if that blows your mind; I know it's a whole sentence longer than the entirety of Boris' campaign. Mr Havafap posted:I was under the impression Libdems were campaigning on Remain? Lib Dem campaigns never actually mean anything. They had an actual chance of fighting Brexit in the bygone era of October 2019 when Labour was trying to pass a Vote of No Confidence in Boris, but that meant Corbyn would be made caretaker PM, and they immediately threw Remain under the bus when an actual leftist holding nominative power for a month or two was the alternative. Last time they were in government they had campaigned heavily on getting rid of tuition fees, and they ended up massively increasing them instead. I think they actually decupled student fees; is that right? Lib Dems are your standard centrist liberals in that they will campaign on whatever they think will get them votes, but will always support fascists when the chips come down.
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Dec 15, 2019 18:52
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V. Illych L. posted:yeah labour stopped talking about the green industrial revolution about halfway through the campaign, presumably because it just wasn't playing well in the polls/focus groups. they shouldn't have stopped
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Dec 15, 2019 18:54
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marktheando posted:Britain would never have voted for PR. Too foreign 1: Take the constituency with the greatest majority, and move all surplus votes -1 to the candidate of that party with the second greatest majority. 2: Move the votes from the losers of that constituency to the candidates of the same party with the lowest total number of votes. If that candidate is the one whose votes are being moved, then discard the votes. 3. Repeat 1 and 2 until every constituency has been processed. This is the perfect blend of forward looking vision and respect for history that Britain needs for an electoral system, not the foreign muck of PR or alternative votes.
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Dec 15, 2019 19:05
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Negotiate a Brexit deal that isn't garbage. Hold a referendum between that deal and Remain. Lib Dems tripled student fees Note that the Lib Dem leadership didn't really want to run on a scrap tuition fees platform but felt forced into it due to a huge chunk of their membership being students and pressuring them into it. Clegg era Lib Dems were very much like Obama where all the signs were there of what they were actually going to do but they managed to come across in a way that people read whatever they wanted into what Clegg was saying.
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Dec 15, 2019 19:10
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MikeCrotch posted:Lib Dems tripled student fees
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Dec 15, 2019 19:12
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https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1206241211696201728
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Dec 15, 2019 19:47
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lol bojo's having a go at the bbc for being biased in the tories' disfavor
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Dec 15, 2019 20:03
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V. Illych L. posted:lol bojo's having a go at the bbc for being biased in the tories' disfavor the bbc deserve every single bit of poo poo that's going to fly their way at least the news team
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Dec 15, 2019 20:05
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lorn Wayne posted:the bbc deserve every single bit of poo poo that's going to fly their way Laura K will be given an Order of the British Empire.
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Dec 15, 2019 20:08
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Dont make me agree with David Miliband
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Dec 15, 2019 20:16
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V. Illych L. posted:lol bojo's having a go at the bbc for being biased in the tories' disfavor time to privatize it
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Dec 15, 2019 20:24
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Kurtofan posted:time to privatize it what would be the difference
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Dec 15, 2019 20:27
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Raskolnikov38 posted:what would be the difference Scrapping the license fee on principle, probably keep the same people and poo poo since they'll keep the narrative as it is and Labour will wither.
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Dec 15, 2019 20:28
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