|
mycomancy posted:Guys guys guys, we need to stop insulting Nazis because otherwise they're gonna get *MORE* fascist! There's a ring of truth to that though. Not that Nazis might get more fascist, they will be exactly as fascist as they're currently able to be and will always intend to be more fascist, but that calling people with views outside the echo-chamber nazis all the loving time doesn't actually achieve anything except giving a poster a dopamine hit and maybe getting an account banned from a social media platform. And like, hesitant to bring it up, but I've been flirting with a ban on this forum for ages and have frequently been called a nazi, a fascist etc, none of the people that just threw that poo poo out ever even faced a 6 hour probabtion by the way, and it's all based on basic poo poo. Like we should respect the referendum result, the poo poo that happened in rotheram was loving abhorent and the left hasn't addressed it, the UK populace is not a racist hate mob waiting to happen etc and yeah sometimes I've got stuff wrong and get owned but 90% of the comeback wasn't people correcting me, it was either being called an X or just a mod stroking their dick on a probation. And it's frustrating how inaccurate and insulting that characterisation is and that's just on an internet message board, I don't agree with the point you were responding to but the idea that this brain-dead, ultra-woke leftish mob could potentially descend on someone IRL potentially loving up their job even, yeah I can see why someone would vote against that being able to happen and the association Labour had with that stuff did hurt it IMO.
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 23:13
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 03:23 |
|
|
FiftySeven posted:I dunno mate, while on the one hand I want to agree wholeheartedly, one thing I have been thinking for a long time now is that we should be taking notes from the right about taking time with our agendas rather than declaring anyone who isn't immediately on side as irredeemable. You know a lot of right wingers willing to gently encourage people onto their side then yeah? Next time a guy starts yelling slurs at me on a train platform I'll definitely stop to ask if he's looking for a reasonable exchange of ideas.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 23:14
|
|
|
bionic vapour boy posted:You know a lot of right wingers willing to gently encourage people onto their side then yeah? come off it mate, thats not even remotely the sort of person I am talking about and you know it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 23:14
|
|
|
Vitamin P posted:There's a ring of truth to that though. Not that Nazis might get more fascist, they will be exactly as fascist as they're currently able to be and will always intend to be more fascist, but that calling people with views outside the echo-chamber nazis all the loving time doesn't actually achieve anything except giving a poster a dopamine hit and maybe getting an account banned from a social media platform. FWIW I don't really get why people keep calling you a nazi but I assumed it was some history I wasn't aware of.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 23:17
|
|
|
I think political discussion online on twitter, facebook or forums is doomed to descend into shouting matches and insults flying around because it is just such a poor medium for communication. Online people will throw around insults at people at the drop of a hat that would never ever fly in a real conversation so everyone just gets pissed off and mad and nothing gets across. It's completely pointless and makes everyone dumb.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 23:17
|
|
|
Most headway I made IRL was in 2018 just rather pointedly stating to a never-Corbyner who was ranting about why things like [latest media fuckbarrelling] are why he could never vote Labour, that "But really you were never going to anyway, you're just using any possible excuse to attack Labour without actually intending to vote for them" and when he said that wasn't true just asked "What could Corbyn actually do to change your mind? Because it looks like even if he took his own life as an apology it still wouldn't be enough." and it just kinda hit him in the Rational Brain and he said he needed to think about it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 23:20
|
|
|
bionic vapour boy posted:You know a lot of right wingers willing to gently encourage people onto their side then yeah? Right-wing lovebombing is actually a thing. You'll see it with social media celebrities they're trying to convince to go chud after their left-wing fanbase gets angry at them. I know we mock folks for celebrating the latest dead-eyed right-wing psycho as a hero of the #resistance because they expressed a mildly reasonable opinion, but it might be interesting to see how many of those we actually can grab and radicalise as the fash come after them. Might not be many, sure, but it doesn't seem like it costs us much to try.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 23:21
|
|
|
Vitamin P posted:the poo poo that happened in rotheram was loving abhorent and the left hasn't addressed it Are you going to genuinely pretend that the left has been trying to cover up the child trafficking sex gangs in Rotherham because the perpetrators were Muslim?
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 23:22
|
|
|
People should blame their problems on billionaires rather than immigrants and people on benefits. I don't think we did enough to challenge the 'scroungers' narrative as thats sunk in deep. We should be vocal about what we disagree with as that normalises it. Some of the poo poo people have been coming out with this weekend - being openly racist, homophobic and hateful - has been loving awful. We should protect the most vulnerable, not avoid offending someone in case they don't vote Labour in five years.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 23:23
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:Right-wing lovebombing is actually a thing. You'll see it with social media celebrities they're trying to convince to go chud after their left-wing fanbase gets angry at them. I know we mock folks for celebrating the latest dead-eyed right-wing psycho as a hero of the #resistance because they expressed a mildly reasonable opinion, but it might be interesting to see how many of those we actually can grab and radicalise as the fash come after them. Might not be many, sure, but it doesn't seem like it costs us much to try. are you saying we need to exit the vampire castle
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 23:23
|
|
|
I'm concerned that the right is going to use corbyn's departure to seize back control of the party, gently caress Wes Streeting has been very much yelling along these lines on Twitter troubling
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 23:25
|
|
|
MikeCrotch posted:are you saying we need to exit the vampire castle I'm not saying we should trust 'em or put 'em into any immediate position of authority (like the Lib Dems did with their homophobic rebel MPs), but a bit of surface-level niceness when they're under attack from the right might prove fruitful - and if it doesn't, we haven't lost much.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 23:26
|
|
|
Tesseraction posted:Are you going to genuinely pretend that the left has been trying to cover up the child trafficking sex gangs in Rotherham because the perpetrators were Muslim? I think it makes a lot of people uncomfortable because it gives racists ammunition. If it was rich tories doing it then I think the left would be making a lot more hay with it but while I don't think people are "covering it up" I think it's less convenient to bring it up because it invites a more difficult argument. So people just... don't.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 23:28
|
|
|
JeremoudCorbynejad posted:Necrothatcher hasn't posted since 30 mins before The Event, I hope he's holding up OK i'm also worried about NT given how much work he put in alongside other issues. If you're reading pal, don't let the despair consume you.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 23:29
|
|
|
The only way for Labour to achieve a majority now is if the next leader achieves CHIM
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 23:30
|
|
|
Nettle Soup posted:Same poo poo I said earlier in the thread. Stop with the "us and them" mentality and the "loving lib dems" "all tories are bastards!" etc rhetoric, it doesn't really help, even if you think it. agree with this, absolutely call out despicable behaviour but a stable ethical future is impossible without transcending the us and them duality
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 23:30
|
|
|
I think there are reasonable things you could do to appeal to working class people in towns and cities in the north, we know this because they voted for Labour in 2017. But I have literally no idea how you would even being to appeal to rural Tory strongholds (which i care about because that's where I spend all my time). Is there the faintest hope for Central Devon or Mid Sussex or North Suffolk to go red in my lifetime?
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 23:31
|
|
|
Tesseraction posted:Are you going to genuinely pretend that the left has been trying to cover up the child trafficking sex gangs in Rotherham because the perpetrators were Muslim? Well I don't know is "hasn't addressed it" the same as "trying to cover up"? No, turns out those are obviously seperate concepts. What a stupid loving post.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 23:34
|
|
|
Corbyn just lost an election because he conceded to the wing of the party who were calling him a communist anti-semite IRA whatever, and people itt are saying that it's not about "us and them". Fash nutters have long since passed the point where they'll go out and loving murder us with weapons. yeah let's hold out the hand of friendship to people who tell anyone that'll hear that they want to bite it off. I'm sure it'll work this time.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 23:35
|
|
|
i know its not actually done and going to end badly but i'm glad that brexit might not be in the news for a bit. i'm loving sick of it and hate cameron for the stupid loving referendum and remain not accepting they lost and going for soft brexit and every loving no dealer
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 23:36
|
|
|
HorseLord posted:Corbyn just lost an election because he conceded to the wing of the party who were calling him a communist anti-semite IRA whatever, and people itt are saying that it's not about "us and them". Fash nutters have long since passed the point where they'll go out and loving murder us with weapons. horselord is actually right here tbqh
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 23:37
|
|
|
soft brexit was the obvious loving option when leave won and remainers jsut couldn't loving accept they lost
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 23:38
|
|
|
Jose posted:i know its not actually done and going to end badly but i'm glad that brexit might not be in the news for a bit. i'm loving sick of it and hate cameron for the stupid loving referendum and remain not accepting they lost and going for soft brexit and every loving no dealer This post is like a perfect distilled form of why the Tories won by the way
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 23:40
|
|
|
Pochoclo posted:This post is like a perfect distilled form of why the Tories won by the way i'm aware of that but the fact is soft brexit was right loving there and remainers refused ot accept they lost and compromise
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 23:41
|
|
|
So Corbyn and his legacy are ruined now right?
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 23:43
|
|
|
like People's Vote are now talking about a "fair deal" since brexit is definitely happening like they aren't responsible for this mess
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 23:43
|
|
|
Jose posted:i'm aware of that but the fact is soft brexit was right loving there and remainers refused ot accept they lost and compromise Oh I agree. I was 100% for Labour going for Soft Brexit, I thought "second referendum" and "cancel brexit!" were lost causes and if all the Lib Dem melts accepted Norway+ then we'd have a different result today but my posts can't control reality yet unfortunately
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 23:44
|
|
|
Jose posted:i'm aware of that but the fact is soft brexit was right loving there and remainers refused ot accept they lost and compromise I am sorry mate, I disagree. If there was ever a proper soft brexit that was offered, it probably would have been voted through. The deal-breakers that existed were always enough to ruin the whole thing. It doesn't exist because if it did, it would essentially undermine the EU. Perhaps I am wrong, I am entirely open to that possibility but as far as I have ever understood it, "The Deal" in every form that was offered was never going to work long term without making everyone, full swivel, full FBPE and everyone in-between unhappy. FiftySeven fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Dec 15, 2019 |
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 23:45
|
|
|
punk rebel ecks posted:So Corbyn and his legacy are ruined now right? That will depend on who takes control of the party and how they do electorally in the future.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 23:46
|
|
|
punk rebel ecks posted:So Corbyn and his legacy are ruined now right? nah, the energy corbyn unleashed within labour remains but we have to make very loving sure the labour right don't seize the leadership, which they are absolutely going to try to do. their whole argument will be that this result represents a failure of corbynism which is bullshit largely because, as corbyn himself said, it doesn't exist - socialism does
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 23:46
|
|
|
Yes, corbyn is 100% right on the issues but the problem is how we communicate that. The labour right wants to pretend it's a cult of personality when it really isn't. A lot of us really like the man because there's a lot to like about him but what really matters is the stance labour is going to take, the membership was clearly up for corbyn's platform before we knew anything about the man. I also want to point out that if the cretinous shits who are now whingeing had got behind us in the loving first place we could likely have won in 2017.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 23:48
|
|
|
FiftySeven posted:I am sorry mate, I disagree. If there was ever a proper soft brexit that was offered, it probably would have been voted through. The deal-breakers that existed were always enough to ruin the whole thing. It doesn't exist because if it did, it would essentially undermine the EU. Perhaps I am wrong, I am entirely open to that possibility but "The Deal" in every form that was offered was never going to work long term without making everyone, full swivel, full FBPE and everyone in-between unhappy. Had the remain side accepted they lost and gone all in on soft brexit it might have happened. Instead they went all in on a second referendum that was spitting on everyone who voted leave. Milne and Corbyn were right and frankly any centrist who pushed for a second referendum can gently caress off
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 23:48
|
|
|
i'm kind of drunk and real angry sorry everyone
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 23:49
|
|
|
Drunk angry jose is a pretty decent jose imo.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 23:50
|
|
|
Jose posted:Had the remain side accepted they lost and gone all in on soft brexit it might have happened. Instead they went all in on a second referendum that was spitting on everyone who voted leave. Milne and Corbyn were right and frankly any centrist who pushed for a second referendum can gently caress off I think this could have been true if Mays government had tried to negotiate with the opposition on side whatsoever. Their determination to be the sole party in the negotiation made this impossible.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 23:50
|
|
|
FiftySeven posted:I think this could have been true if Mays government had tried to negotiate with the opposition on side whatsoever. Their determination to be the sole party in the negotiation made this impossible. may shoudl have compromised sure but since her opposition were basically 2nd referendum or nothing why should she? as she herself said the people voted for pain
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 23:51
|
|
|
I think honestly the fact that the labour right can only think of it in terms of corbyn personally is endemic to how they view politics in its entirety.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 23:52
|
|
|
Jose posted:i'm kind of drunk and real angry sorry everyone You're like I was last night, it's cathartic
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 23:54
|
|
|
Jose posted:i'm kind of drunk and real angry sorry everyone same since the result lmao
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 23:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 03:23 |
|
|
punk rebel ecks posted:So Corbyn and his legacy are ruined now right? This will probably shake out as another case of him being right in retrospect but the powers that be taking the dumb move regardless (see also: Iraq)
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 23:57
|
|
