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Slept on this forever and only now picked it up because a coworker brought it up, and this game is straight GOTY material for me. Shotgunned twenty hours into it over the past few days and now I'm sad it's over. Only one thing is still a bit mysterious to me after finishing the game with what I think is the good ending: (Major end-game spoilers obviously) Why were the Nomai unable to track down the signal from the Eye? Presumably the Eye is quantum in some way, much like its moon, but they were still able to find a fixed physical location merely through visual inspection via the probe fired out of the Orbital Probe Cannon. One theory is that the probe is observing the Eye and thus pinning it in place, but that probe is not there in the current timeline and the first successful probe found the Eye before the first time loop of the game anyway, so then why is the Eye Locator still freaking out when we get to it?
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Dec 15, 2019 12:59
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I'm almost certain I'm remembering wrong, but I think the Nomai were never able to actually start their loop, due to the Sun Station failing to fire. And then of course the Ghost Matter tragedy strikes. The Ash Twin Project and Orbital Probe Cannon don't fire up until the natural supernova aeons later.
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Dec 15, 2019 13:24
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They didn't find the eye because it was too far. Whether the eye's location is quantum or not has no real bearing on this (although the fact you get coordinates for it suggests it isn't, since nothing in the setup is a conscious observer that'd hold it in place). Their various detection means simply didn't reach far enough to get a definite location which is why they came up with the probe cannon loop (which they then couldn't use in their lifetime).
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Dec 15, 2019 13:34
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:Slept on this forever and only now picked it up because a coworker brought it up, and this game is straight GOTY material for me. Shotgunned twenty hours into it over the past few days and now I'm sad it's over. The Nomai never fired a probe. That happens only at the start of our loop.
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Dec 15, 2019 14:03
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If you reread the question carefully, he's not asking why they didn't find it with the probe, he's asking why they didn't find it before, because the probe did find it at a fixed point or orbit in space. Like, if it's been there all along shouldn't the signal have some kind of directionality, shouldn't they be able to track the signal's general direction to orient their search, which is how they arrived to that star system in the first place? Or is it a quantum location like the moon, but then why is it fixed once the probe finds it? And the answer to that isn't about the loop, it's that according to the in-game messages they lost the signal upon arriving and getting stranded and never caught it again. But they knew that wherever the quantum moon went for its sixth orbit was where the eye was, and realized they couldn't find it because it was too far for their means of detection. Which is why they decided to set up the probe loop.
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Dec 15, 2019 14:21
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Chev posted:If you reread the question carefully, he's not asking why they didn't find it with the probe, he's asking why they didn't find it before, because the probe did find it at a fixed point or orbit in space. Like, if it's been there all along shouldn't the signal have some kind of directionality, shouldn't they be able to track the signal's general direction to orient their search, which is how they arrived to that star system in the first place? Or is it a quantum location like the moon, but then why is it fixed once the probe finds it? And the answer to that isn't about the loop, it's that according to the in-game messages they lost the signal upon arriving and getting stranded and never caught it again. But they knew that wherever the quantum moon went for its sixth orbit was where the eye was, and realized they couldn't find it because it was too far for their means of detection. Which is why they decided to set up the probe loop. Yes, this. The problem the Nomai faced once they got over the whole "our mothership was eaten by a semi-sentient vegetable full of angry fish" thing was that the locators they built to try and track down the signal sent out from the Eye all just spun around and couldn't find the signal again. So they built the Orbital Probe Cannon with the goal of sending out a probe that could visually identify the Eye if it encountered it (as they knew what the Eye looked like because of the Quantum Moon), but couldn't power it since the Sun Station doesn't work. Well, the sun went nova anyway on its own hundreds of thousands of years later, which starts up the time loop - and the probe does eventually find the Eye. Whats more, when the Hearthian punches the coordinates into the Vessel's navigational systems, the Eye is still there. What I'm looking for here is if the game ever explains why the Nomai couldn't pin down the signal coming from the Eye. They speculate a lot about it, but none of what I've found amounts to an answer. I'm not sure it's just that it's beyond their detection capabilities, because they built a massive observatory for the sole purpose of finding it before ever conceiving of the Orbital Probe Cannon, and that failed too.
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Dec 15, 2019 14:31
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They do mention the signal that guided them to the solar system just went out. Like, poof, gone. Some Nomai even thinks it was a deliberate act of the Eye, to spite them or trick them. Once that was gone they tried to find it again and didn't (because the signal was gone), then tried through the moon's sixth location and that was absolutely a problem of range (they mention they think the reason they can't find it is because it's too far, they even know roughly how far because that's part of how they designed the probe setup).
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Dec 15, 2019 14:48
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The cannon didn't need the sun to fire, the problem is that the cannon is so powerful it breaks once it fires, so you can only use it once, as you can clearly see right at the start of the game. The reason it fires at the start of your time loop is because the trigger activating it is the same trigger that starts your loop: the sun going nova and sending a signal back in time.
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Dec 15, 2019 16:48
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Yes, the sun going nova powers the Ash Twin Project, not the cannon. I misspoke. But, the sun going nova is still the trigger for it, as it's what sets off the Ash Twin Project.
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Dec 15, 2019 17:35
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Samopsa, that's not quite right either. The cannon breaking is entirely due to the trigger happy people changing the settings, it was not actually meant to break, even though they didn't intend to use it repeatedly. Also it may be worth checking the in-game texts again because I do remember them mentioning the cannon is also powered by the ash twin project, which sends some of the supernova's energy back in time for the cannon along with the data for the probe launch. Can't remember which log it is, probably one in whichever place explains they wanna blow up the sun, but if you go visit the cannon itself you'll find a log that foreshadows it, explaining the launch was cancelled because they couldn't use the cannon's energy source.
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Dec 15, 2019 19:47
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Chev posted:Samopsa, that's not quite right either. The cannon breaking is entirely due to the trigger happy people changing the settings, it was not actually meant to break, even though they didn't intend to use it repeatedly. sort of. the original plan was this: 1. build the probe to fire at a random coordinate in space 2. create the sun station to trigger a supernova 3. program the probe to fire at a random location in space 22 minutes prior to the supernova 4. harness the supernova's energy to power their quantum teleportation devices, which would send the probe's coordinates back 22 minutes prior to the sun exploding 5. use this closed time loop to effectively fire the probe at every location in the universe simultaneously, guaranteeing that the Eye's coordinates would be found 6. upon gaining the coordinates, cease the sun station's operation, cancel the latest supernova, and proceed to the Eye of the Universe instead it turned out to be 1. build the probe to fire at a random coordinate in space 2. create the sun station to trigger a supernova 3. the sun station cannot trigger a supernova 4. poo poo 5. god dammit 6. back to the drawing board i guess 7. hey what's that comet doing here
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Dec 15, 2019 20:09
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Chev posted:Samopsa, that's not quite right either. The cannon breaking is entirely due to the trigger happy people changing the settings, it was not actually meant to break, even though they didn't intend to use it repeatedly. They increased the power to increase the probe range. It's eventually too powerful to keep the cannon intact, but Mallo (the reckless nomai) (correctly!) argues this does not matter because of the time loop. They needed the power though, because the signal they're trying to find is pretty far away. They never launched because 1) they couldn't start the time loop yet because they couldn't figure out how to trigger a supernova manually and 2) they all died thanks to ghost matter before they could figure out something else e:beaten!
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Dec 15, 2019 20:12
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Oxxidation posted:sort of. the original plan was this:
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Dec 15, 2019 22:45
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Wow. Everything in this game is absolutely amazing and breathtaking and just like, so amazing... Until the, I don’t even know how to describe it... the endgame “gauntlet” the game forces you to complete. This is like a exercise of complete misery
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Dec 16, 2019 05:12
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I don't think so, it's a very small number of tasks you have to do in one run. Once you've gathered all the necessary information actually pulling off the final loop is pretty straightforward.
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Dec 16, 2019 06:09
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the first task was pretty miserable for me.
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Dec 16, 2019 06:11
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Nothing you need to do in the endgame gauntlet is hard, except resisting the temptation to hit your thrusters
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Dec 16, 2019 06:14
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also now that you can fast forward time waiting for the first step isn't an issue either
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Dec 16, 2019 06:17
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The game kind of encourages you to leave and do something else if you get hung up on something, which means the tedious or tricky tasks would be all that's left at the very end. That's what happened to me at least.Arrhythmia posted:Nothing you need to do in the endgame gauntlet is hard, except resisting the temptation to hit your thrusters
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Dec 16, 2019 06:18
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it’s not that the task is hard. It’s that the task is tedious and having to spend 5 minutes standing around on ash twin doing nothing every time you start an attempt is just... awful. I’ve gotten to the ship twice now and each time I had roughly a minute to figure out how the ship actually works because I had obviously never been there with the core before. This is not a puzzle, there is nothing to figure out like the quantum moon or any of the other discoveries the game has you do. I know exactly what I’m supposed to do and can’t do it and that’s such a lovely feeling in a video game where that kind of thing was 100% absent before it
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Dec 16, 2019 06:37
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The only parts of the ending that I felt were particularly bad were working out how to actually get into the Ash core with the sand pillar and having to memorize/screenshot the Eye co-ordinates because you can't access them ingame once you're inside the mothership. To get all the knowledge you need to reach the endgame you should have already navigated past the fish in Dark Bramble at least once if not more so that shouldn't really be a issue by that stage.
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Dec 16, 2019 06:45
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If you have the coordinates node in your log you will get an out-of-context pop up onscreen while you’re configuring the Nomai hyperdrive. At least they did for me on the PS4 version. I didn’t feel the endgame sequence was tedious, I had done all of it before and it involved no more time wasting than any other time I decided I wanted to investigate one particular thing with limited availability. haveblue fucked around with this message at 07:09 on Dec 16, 2019 |
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Dec 16, 2019 07:06
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Paul Zuvella posted:it’s not that the task is hard. It’s that the task is tedious and having to spend 5 minutes standing around on ash twin doing nothing every time you start an attempt is just... awful. I’ve gotten to the ship twice now and each time I had roughly a minute to figure out how the ship actually works because I had obviously never been there with the core before. What specifically are you getting stuck on? If you're having trouble making it to the ship, make sure you're using your ship's computer to mark its location on your map and not trying to go through the nomai grave every time. To navigate past the anglerfish, build up speed to enter dark bramble and then let yourself drift, because the fish only detect your thrusters and not your presence. You can freely use the right stick to aim yourself since they won't hear that, and if you feather the left stick from a safe distance they won't hear that either.
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Dec 16, 2019 09:55
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Like the others I'm kinda surprised because I made it to the Vessel with a lot of time to spare. But it also seems there may be a difference in preparation? I'd already been there before and played with its mechanisms, before i'd even gotten the coordinates but amusingly I'd entered them wrong so I even had time to search for the error and correct it. Maybe you were too timid and lost too much time in the fish gauntlet? Or maybe you lost time while flying around? The autopilot may have killed you a couple times but unless there's asun in the way it's worth noting it'll probably get you to your destinations faster than you yourself could. As others have mentioned, the waiting part can be taken care of at a campfire. Chev fucked around with this message at 10:23 on Dec 16, 2019 |
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Dec 16, 2019 10:21
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Lots of frustations with the final part of the game have been patched tho: campfire waiting and the popup showing crucial info at the end were added after the game launched.
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Dec 16, 2019 11:23
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Even before that, a couple minutes waiting isn't the end of the world (although it can be frustrating if you haven't quite gotten the hang of using the particular entrance you're looking for and fumble it) and the crucial info was always available in the log of the ship itself which hopefully you have parked about 20 seconds away from where you use it.
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Dec 16, 2019 12:51
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Paul Zuvella posted:it’s not that the task is hard. It’s that the task is tedious and having to spend 5 minutes standing around on ash twin doing nothing every time you start an attempt is just... awful. You don't. You can fastforward time at campfires.
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Dec 16, 2019 14:21
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Samopsa posted:Lots of frustations with the final part of the game have been patched tho: campfire waiting and the popup showing crucial info at the end were added after the game launched. Think the pop up was always there. At least it was when I played the game shortly after realease
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Dec 16, 2019 14:35
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No the pop up was patched in. But the info was always viewable in your ship's log once you'd found it.
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Dec 16, 2019 15:04
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This most important thing about the endgame is to just be very patient, you have plenty of time even though, well, Circumstances ... As for the final puzzle, I was a little mad at that vod that was posted earlier cause the guy easily figured out the ash twin teleport puzzle, got the warp core out, took it to the abandoned vessel and couldn't figure out what to put in the coordinates entry even though the game has it displayed in the bottom corner lmao. When I saw the coordinates for the first time I took a photo of it with my cell phone just in case I needed to enter them manually so I knew exactly what to do as soon as I got there. It's funny how some things come so naturally to some and so difficult to others. I literally had to look up how to get into ash twin cause I was super, super overthinking it with the rules we were told about the teleportation but this was all pre-patch.
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Dec 16, 2019 15:08
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Just checked a walkthrough that was made 4 days after the games release on the pc and the pop up was there so if it was patched in it was incredibly quick
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Dec 16, 2019 15:10
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lol that poo poo literally made me cry
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Dec 17, 2019 01:46
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I don't think ive ever seen a piece of media, let alone a video game, that manages to be so brutally nihilistic yet at the same time be exceptionally hopeful and almost happy at the same time. The game almost perfectly encapsulates the stages of grief. First denial; Surely there is a way to stop the sun from exploding, I just need to learn and explore! Then anger and bargaining are mushed together; It was the Nomai's fault, they built the sun station to make the sun explode, I just need to shut it off or destroy it!. Then you get to the sun station... and it failed. It does nothing. Except it does tell you one thing; that your sun is, in fact dying. I had known this somewhat, looking back the game makes it painfully obvious that your solar system and possibly the universe is dying. Its a cruel joke almost that our player character gets to go into space for the first time just to see this horrific cosmic event that evaporates everything they have ever known or cared about. Which brings us to Depression; There is no hope, there is no point. Im dead and stuck in this loop for all eternity, not even the heat death of the universe can stop it. But then something beautiful happens, we piece together that there is some hope. Maybe we can finish what the Nomai tried to do and get to the eye of the universe. The universe is dying but at its center maybe we can find meaning, or hope, or... anything. And its absolutely brilliant from a game design prospective because we physically have to mechanically interact with the game to enforce this. We have to remove the warp core. We have to literally kill ourselves and with that we find Acceptance; At the eye we find that not only are we dying, not only is our solar system dying, not only is our galaxy dying but... everything is dying. and that's... ok? It is ok. We come to accept that all things come and go, we live and we die and that's just how things are. But the entire game shows us that there is value in the moment. There is value in exploration, in discovery, in connecting with others around us. And as we are likely already dead and gone, just a quantum ghost of our former existence trapped deep within the universe's core. We, surrounded by the friends we made along the way simply sit and observe and witness a new universe being born. Even in the most hopeless, and awful situations life continues, things go on with or without us and the universe will continue, even if in a form completely alien to us as we know it. Outer wilds is a lot of things. Its a game about learning, about exploring. Its a game about physics and the sciences. And its a game about the inevitability of death and how that is ok. And for that its one of the greatest experiences ive ever had
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Dec 17, 2019 16:16
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Is there any sort of in-universe explanation for why when you first start the game, the sun doesn't explode after 22 minutes? I mean, I know the real reason is the game doesn't want to kill you during the tutorial stuff on Timber Hearth but it doesn't really make sense lore-wise. It's not like you start before the 22 minute loops either, you see the cannon exploding in the sky from the beginning, which should be 22 minutes before the sun explodes, but that isn't the case when you first start the game. I guess it's just a necessary plot hole for game convenience?
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Dec 18, 2019 00:11
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So It Goes posted:Is there any sort of in-universe explanation for why when you first start the game, the sun doesn't explode after 22 minutes? I mean, I know the real reason is the game doesn't want to kill you during the tutorial stuff on Timber Hearth but it doesn't really make sense lore-wise. It's not like you start before the 22 minute loops either, you see the cannon exploding in the sky from the beginning, which should be 22 minutes before the sun explodes, but that isn't the case when you first start the game. I guess it's just a necessary plot hole for game convenience? You dont notice any of the loops until that point. Thats just what you were doing before the loops started and coincidentally happened to be the closest person to the mask when the original loop started. Then 9000 whatever loops happened before the masks activate and connect you to the latest loop, which is the first time you play. The loops were occuring at that specific time for thousands of go arounds but you'd never notice it because youre not part of the loop until "now".
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Dec 18, 2019 02:04
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So It Goes posted:Is there any sort of in-universe explanation for why when you first start the game, the sun doesn't explode after 22 minutes? I mean, I know the real reason is the game doesn't want to kill you during the tutorial stuff on Timber Hearth but it doesn't really make sense lore-wise. It's not like you start before the 22 minute loops either, you see the cannon exploding in the sky from the beginning, which should be 22 minutes before the sun explodes, but that isn't the case when you first start the game. I guess it's just a necessary plot hole for game convenience? Its entirely mechanical, any explanation otherwise would just be a contrivance. when players are new and trying to get up and running and learn the controls and figure out what this big fun game is and then you explode for no reason and then credits roll? it would turn enough folks off immediately that its better to just fudge it a little bit. KoB posted:You dont notice any of the loops until that point. Thats just what you were doing before the loops started and coincidentally happened to be the closest person to the mask when the original loop started. Then 9000 whatever loops happened before the masks activate and connect you to the latest loop, which is the first time you play. Case in point why "any explanation is a contrivance". This still does not explain at all why the 22 minutes start later. You wake up, see the cannon go off, which we know signifies the start of the 22 minute loop, and yet that particular loop can not begin for 20 hours if a player want to spend that long tooling around at home base. Paul Zuvella fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Dec 18, 2019 |
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Dec 18, 2019 02:36
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I think they could've kept it internally consistent if they'd just not had the cannon go off the first time you wake up. The "correct" moment for it would be when you walk past that statue, which is when the time loop starts. I'm guessing that it would've taken extra work to make the cannon exist in a non-exploded state so they figured that small inconsistency would be okay. And to be even more technically correct, shouldn't each of your loops start with you standing in front of the statue, since that's where/when your memories are being sent back in time? That would of course be much worse than waking up beneath the stars so I'm glad they didn't do that.
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Dec 18, 2019 03:53
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So hey, i've done this run 3 times and nothing happens and i just want to know if i'm way off base I need to grab the Ash Twin core and run it to The Vessel and input the coordinates right? I do that, roll the power ball back to the other side and then stand there like an idiot in the little depression until the literal heat death of the universe and nothing at all happens except i get a 'YOU ARE DEAD" message (except once when i got "good job ripping the fabric of space time, idiot" but i think that was unrelated)
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Dec 18, 2019 05:28
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Nihilarian posted:So hey, i've done this run 3 times and nothing happens and i just want to know if i'm way off base There's a power ball at the center of the coordinates pillar revealed when it drops.
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Dec 18, 2019 05:40
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youcallthatatwist posted:There's a power ball at the center of the coordinates pillar revealed when it drops.
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Dec 18, 2019 06:15
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