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Tesseraction posted:I don't understand why Kinnock is still lauded by the blue labour types when all he did was make the party unelectable before handing it over to a more cautious moderniser who was the one who really started the momentum for Blair's landslide. I am seeing this a fair bit over the past couple of days, and I genuinely am baffled by attempts on the left to claim John Smith Yes, he wasn't Blair, but he was still firmly on the old Labour right. What the heck is this about.
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Dec 16, 2019 13:49
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ronya posted:Jacobin is ... OK. Its quality has really gone down, but it's still OK. Its sister publication the new Tribune is must-read for knowing what Labour hopes its activists are talking about, in the terms it hopes activists are using. Jacobin can be all right but as you say it sometimes is a little bit too insular. Tribune you're absolutely right, and I know Grace Blakely was recently hired as a regular contributor, but it also doesn't update very frequently. I suppose I'm gonna have to stick with the Graun, but like gently caress I'm gonna financially support those bootlickers.
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Dec 16, 2019 13:50
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ronya posted:Jacobin is ... OK. Its quality has really gone down, but it's still OK. Its sister publication the new Tribune is must-read for knowing what Labour hopes its activists are talking about, in the terms it hopes activists are using. Oh yeah, I forgot the Tribune. I'm planning on subscribing to it, it seems to be really high quality from what I've seen. The New Left Review is also great, if intended for an academic audience, and not too expensive at £45 per year.
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Dec 16, 2019 13:50
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lol I forgot that Caroline Flint lost her seat in this election. Get hosed!
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Dec 16, 2019 13:50
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Rakosi posted:As someone quoted to me earlier, there's a whole lot of distance between Corbyn and the political center. I think a more centrist Labour leader could win an election literally by A) not being a Tory, B) being less cuntishly centrist, C) having one or two (maximum) key socialisms in their manifesto. For one manifesto go for nationalising the railways or something and fully, completely own it and work on it during the campaign. Full socialism now will never work, imo. i think it's quite possible that Johnson follows through, or at least appears to follow through, on this announced tack of earning the votes that have been 'lent' to him (to use his words). There will be more funding for the NHS and police; not as much as Labour would have done, and I suspect much of it will be spent in a way that is politically beneficial and practically of limited use. One of the ironic difficulties for Labour in the next 5 and possibly 10 years is that things may actually get a bit better under the Conservatives as austerity reverses and the Brexit deadlock is, well, perhaps not 'broken' but at least progresses a bit. Talking points about the tories are fascists and literally murdering 100,000s of people have never seemed to appeal to anyone except those already on the left & I think they will be even more ineffective amongst the lab->cons swing voters if & when the sky doesn't fall in under what may well be a centre-right government. Tesseraction posted:the New Statesman is for TERF Lib Dem voters Ironically, the lib dems had the most pro-trans manifesto with a commitment to bring in self-ID without medical evidence, something that really upsets the 'trans women are invading our safe spaces!' crowd. oxford_town fucked around with this message at 13:54 on Dec 16, 2019 |
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Dec 16, 2019 13:51
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CGI Stardust posted:i'm not sure how much effect it had - if the small bits of left internationalism had had any traction whatsoever in media or campaign, then absolutely. but did it ever come up? they never highlighted it at all afaict, it was just stuck in towards the end of the manifesto and ignored by everyone i think in large part it's implicitly understood by the whites that corbyn's social democracy embraces all people as equals and would try to make some kind of amends for the empire, however cack handedly. this definitely factored into how they viewed this election even if nobody talked it up on the news. brexit after all is ultimately the absurd fantasy that britain (or rather england) can once more become it's own imperialist state without the protective bargaining power of the much larger EU imperialist project.
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Dec 16, 2019 13:52
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oxford_town posted:Ironically, the lib dems had the most pro-trans manifesto with a commitment to bring in self-ID without medical evidence, something that really upsets the 'trans women are invading our safe spaces!' crowd. ah, so that's why jo; lost her seat to the SNP
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Dec 16, 2019 13:56
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Dabir posted:ah, so that's why jo; lost her seat to the SNP hahahahaha
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Dec 16, 2019 13:59
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labour still hasn't had its TERF showdown, hmm maybe that will suddenly rock onto the leadership succession stage, it's definitely been bubbling for a while and plays into the ~culturally conservative~ theme without poking the immigration bear
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Dec 16, 2019 13:59
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A friend is being groomed by Labour First, and sent me this confusedly:quote:Good Morning. According to our sources inside the party, John McDonnell is privately encouraging Corbyn to step aside as early as possible in order to preserve the credibility of the project. Look out the piss vars are mobilising.
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Dec 16, 2019 14:00
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oxford_town posted:Talking points about the tories are fascists and literally murdering 100,000s of people have never seemed to appeal to anyone except those already on the left & I think they will be even more ineffective amongst the lab->cons swing voters if & when the sky doesn't fall in under what may well be a centre-right government. gh0stpinballa posted:brexit after all is ultimately the absurd fantasy that britain (or rather england) can once more become it's own imperialist state without the protective bargaining power of the much larger EU imperialist project.
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Dec 16, 2019 14:01
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Puntification posted:A friend is being groomed by Labour First, and sent me this confusedly: man Seamus Milne keeps getting treated like a loving shadowwalker as opposed to the middle-class lefty he is
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Dec 16, 2019 14:02
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Oh dear me posted:Marxists don't. Affluent Marxists do. 白马非马
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Dec 16, 2019 14:03
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Speaking of James Butler, he's written something really good for the London Review of Books. An extract: James Butler posted:There are many lessons for the Labour left to learn from this election: five weeks’ enthusiasm cannot make up for decades of neglect; campaigning is about listening as much as listing policies; the conventional political virtues – presentation, messaging, and ruthless attacks on one’s opponents – can’t be circumvented by a surfeit of positivity. But without intransigent principle they are barren. All of these questions – how to blend movement and machine – will bear down on whoever is elected as Corbyn’s successor, but they are also questions the party must ask itself. https://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2019/december/labour-s-defeat
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Dec 16, 2019 14:04
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This is racist against horses.
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Dec 16, 2019 14:06
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lol https://twitter.com/acgrayling/status/1206488626311434240?s=20
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Dec 16, 2019 14:07
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the loving gall of this https://twitter.com/BBCHARDtalk/status/1206526383113015296?s=20
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Dec 16, 2019 14:10
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for a man famous for being atheist he's sure hailing mary here
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Dec 16, 2019 14:11
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Jose posted:the loving gall of this loving lol.
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Dec 16, 2019 14:11
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Jose posted:the loving gall of this Hahaha, holy poo poo! Also way to lump 'academics' in as one amorphous blob.
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Dec 16, 2019 14:11
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When you have definitive evidence that Labour is run and controlled by Putin personally, due to the give away spelling error on a Reddit post, you know it's Russia then
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Dec 16, 2019 14:12
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Jose posted:the loving gall of this loving his grin in the thumbnail tbh
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Dec 16, 2019 14:13
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The grift is real boys: never trust a hack
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Dec 16, 2019 14:14
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ronya posted:labour still hasn't had its TERF showdown, hmm Labour did boot out a bunch of vocal TERFs a few years back and have generally been pretty unwelcoming to any who remain (see Women's Place having to organise in secret at conference) It is true that the Labour manifesto was not as good as the LD's on trans rights which is curious, not sure if it was just an oversight or deliberate due to anti-trans pressure.
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Dec 16, 2019 14:18
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Pesmerga posted:Speaking of James Butler, he's written something really good for the London Review of Books. Now i'm not very well read on political theory. Or anything at all. But that sounds like the age old call for Labour to be a little bit more racist so as to not alienate racists so much. It's the same issue facing the US. If the democrats abandon their radical ideas what are they but a polite republican party? If this person is right then 'blue labour' is the future of the party?
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Dec 16, 2019 14:19
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Beefeater1980 posted:I think that’s right: Labour can’t be the party of the provincial working class, the metropolitan working class and cosmopolitan social liberals all at the same time without watering down, and if it has to sacrifice one of those groups IMO it should be the last one. The difference between the metropolitan working class (mainly doing services or other immaterial labour rather than industry) and cosmopolitan social liberals is small and mainly correlates with wealth, as far as I can see. Either group would find it easy to identify with someone doing the same job three countries over but has no concept of what it's like to be a factory worker or a farm labourer 10km outside town. The difference is that liberals think the money is distributed just fine while the rest are perpetually on the brink of being broke.
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Dec 16, 2019 14:22
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Pesmerga posted:Because Bastani is an idiot, and a confrontational one at that, and Skwakbox peddles misinformation and conspiracy theories. What was so bad about the book? (this is a genuine wish for details, not a passive-aggressive disagreement)
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Dec 16, 2019 14:23
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Prism Mirror Lens posted:What was so bad about the book? (this is a genuine wish for details, not a passive-aggressive disagreement) it was missing gay from the title
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Dec 16, 2019 14:25
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Jose posted:the loving gall of this Must be nice to bumblefuck your way into the establishment
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Dec 16, 2019 14:25
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Continuity RCP posted:Must be nice to bumblefuck your way into the establishment I mean look at the current PM
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Dec 16, 2019 14:30
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CyberPingu posted:I mean look at the current PM He was born into it though, BM tripped over his own shoelaces and landed face first into a cushy gig
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Dec 16, 2019 14:32
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I really think I deserve commission for that tbh.
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Dec 16, 2019 14:33
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a twitter thread containing disqualifying stuff for anyone who needs it to argue against jess phillips as leader https://twitter.com/fzjmmd/status/1206547136361508865?s=20
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Dec 16, 2019 14:34
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Regarde Aduck posted:Now i'm not very well read on political theory. Or anything at all. But that sounds like the age old call for Labour to be a little bit more racist so as to not alienate racists so much. Which bit said that to you, out of curiosity? Prism Mirror Lens posted:What was so bad about the book? (this is a genuine wish for details, not a passive-aggressive disagreement) It was the equivalent of a Brian Cox 'space communism' is amazing stream of consciousness, in essence, that basically advocated Tech Billionaire policies, 'but communist', without really explaining what that meant. It also was very heavily technologically deterministic, and basically handwaved away any potential struggles or conflicts to just focus on how cool it would be if we were mining asteroids in space for everybody rather than just rich people.
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Dec 16, 2019 14:36
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Guavanaut posted:Phillipsolipsism. "what if there were other people than me?  "
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Dec 16, 2019 14:37
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Pesmerga posted:It was the equivalent of a Brian Cox 'space communism' is amazing stream of consciousness, in essence, that basically advocated Tech Billionaire policies, 'but communist', without really explaining what that meant. It also was very heavily technologically deterministic, and basically handwaved away any potential struggles or conflicts to just focus on how cool it would be if we were mining asteroids in space for everybody rather than just rich people.
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Dec 16, 2019 14:38
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ronya posted:I genuinely am baffled by attempts on the left to claim John Smith Tesseraction called him a 'more cautious moderniser', I'm not sure why you think that's claiming him. 'Modernize' was the right's favourite word. CGI Stardust posted:this is a big lesson i think - the moral approach just does not work if people haven't personally experienced those things, and a lot of the framing of the message this time was moral Some of it is needed in order to galvanize the left but indeed, it does not convert. We banged on about the NHS all through the 80s, but it was perceived sleaze and incompetence that finally got rid of the Tories.
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Dec 16, 2019 14:39
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Prism Mirror Lens posted:What was so bad about the book? (this is a genuine wish for details, not a passive-aggressive disagreement) It was hundreds of pages of saying how cool it will be when marginal cost to do all sorts of things is near zero with no political analysis of the forces involved. Imagine 'AI will save us all' but focused on efficient bus services and ethically vat grown steak.
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Dec 16, 2019 14:39
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Guavanaut posted:Isn't that just Kropotkin's "what if the communes owned the steam engines?" but updated for the internet of things? Basically, but theoretically empty and ignoring things like network externalities because they made the fantasy complicated. namesake posted:It was hundreds of pages of saying how cool it will be when marginal cost to do all sorts of things is near zero with no political analysis of the forces involved. Yeah, this, with a side helping of 'let's just ignore any idea of struggle and just assume that all these things are state and people-owned and no-one cares about profit anymore (also, everyone gets $100 billion each from mining asteroids)'.
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Dec 16, 2019 14:42
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not sure how this will work https://twitter.com/HannahAlOthman/status/1206557955644104705?s=20
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Dec 16, 2019 14:44
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