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Season 3 should be about the Europa colony and how they progress, forget about Earth.
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Dec 16, 2019 23:12
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ALL THESE WORLDS ARE YOURS, EXCEPT EUROPA. ATTEMPT NO LANDING THERE. USE THEM TOGETHER. USE THEM IN PEACE.
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Dec 16, 2019 23:13
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THAT DOESN'T MEAN FETUS PONDS ARE FINE, DR OSTERMAN
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Dec 16, 2019 23:15
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Password entry in cleartext, too. Clearly the security coding of the smartest man on Earth.
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Dec 16, 2019 23:15
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Thranguy posted:Maybe Angela plans to immediately stick the amnesia device in, just go about her life with instinctual emergency teleport powers. I don't think it's ever said that eating the egg gets you the whole naked blue outside of time experience. She might just have walking-on-water powers, maybe talks to fish.
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Dec 16, 2019 23:19
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General Dog posted:The idea that Dr. Manhattan has been ineffectual because of some flaw in his personality (and the implication that Angela or anybody else could be a "better" version of him) seems like kind of a misunderstanding of the character. His indifference is part and parcel with being all-knowing and omnipotent. True as that is in the long term, it's also really important that he spent years active and doing stuff, but by serving as a good soldier for the US Government in the cold war, making massive changes in technology and national boundaries for them. His engagement in the world was shaped and controlled and diverged rapidly from what actually mattered to him on a personal level. Another person with Doctor Manhattan's powers might inevitably become alien, but how soon and what they do first is going to be entirely shaped by who they were before. The chamber put him on a new path, but he didn't spring full-form into the guy on Mars all fed up with the very existence of humanity. On other things, I'm not sure why anyone is shocked by Veidt being a crazy old Howard Hughes has been in 2008, much less in 2019. Years as a recluse having done his great plan and still never sure if the millions he killed were worth it, without even getting the credit? Him not being all he was in 1985 felt as reasonable a direction as Laurie ending up becoming her father despite it all.
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Dec 16, 2019 23:27
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Zaphod42 posted:It did! your relentless cheerleading is almost as annoying as the trolls who do nothing but poo poo on the show unlike politics, with TV sometimes the truth really IS in the middle
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Dec 16, 2019 23:29
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Jesus christ this thread is insufferable. I really enjoyed the show. The last episode was probably the weakest but I still loved it overall. Should have used mesmer device on the 7th kav instead of just random lazers though. Neat.
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Dec 16, 2019 23:37
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General Dog posted:The idea that Dr. Manhattan has been ineffectual because of some flaw in his personality (and the implication that Angela or anybody else could be a "better" version of him) seems like kind of a misunderstanding of the character. His indifference is part and parcel with being all-knowing and omnipotent.
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Dec 16, 2019 23:40
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Sleeveless posted:Yeah seriously, it's reprehensible that a work about comic book superheroes would be so tawdry as to invoke a real historical event with all the baggage and trauma that entails, especially in the name of making some thematic point. I don't think anyone is complaining about that. The issue is that Lindelof was going for this:  but it came out like this 
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Dec 16, 2019 23:44
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Martman posted:I don't think there's any good reason to believe this. Being all-knowing and omnipotent doesn't make you go "hmmmm k I guess I'll go help you kill a bunch of people and win a war 'cause why not?" He's genuinely a dope throughout pretty much the entire comic. Its very possible that once you obtain relative omnipotence you also realize there is no such thing as free will and he is merely following an unchanging path i.e. determinism.
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Dec 16, 2019 23:44
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blue squares posted:your relentless cheerleading is almost as annoying as the trolls who do nothing but poo poo on the show If you disagree with something someone says, or if you have something to say, go ahead, but gently caress this. You can respond to anything positive with the same, doesn't make it true. Then round and round we go accusing each other of being this or that. Its pointless. I've said lots of critical things about the show actually, but a bunch of people saying stupid poo poo means that's what the conversation is about. gently caress off.
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Dec 16, 2019 23:45
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Also I get people wanted more race relations themes or significant wrap up then just "kill 7th kav" but at the very least this show depicted the Tulsa massacre which is good because a ton of people (myself included) had never even heard of it before.
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Dec 16, 2019 23:48
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OZYMANDIAS: Masks make people cruel JOE KEANE: The cops wear masks because they're evil white supremacists HOODED JUSTICE: Masks make it impossible to heal or improve, they just make you angry and hateful and let you ignore the real personal and institutional issues that need to be brought to light A GENIUS: Wow, I was totally right all along and this show really is centrist police apologia with nothing meaningful or interesting to say about superheroes or modern society
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Dec 16, 2019 23:54
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Zaphod42 posted:Going into that episode lots of y'all were like "they're gonna drop all the racial stuff in the finale" and then they DIDN'T and I was like "oh good, the thread will be happy" The racial stuff turned out to be a red herring. The 7K were just pawns and wiped out easily by a super laser within seconds (by someone who had no beef with them). Hooded Justice, Tulsa Riots, 7K, masked cops acting like fascists was just tossed aside at the end to make it about Trieu, Manhattan and Viedt. People who weren't important characters for most of the series. Show was about race, trauma, policing, and exploitation at the beginning. Dropped it all to be Lex Luthor vs Superman. Niwrad fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Dec 16, 2019 |
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Dec 16, 2019 23:56
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Sleeveless posted:OZYMANDIAS: Masks make people cruel Filmmaking is more than just what the characters say.
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Dec 16, 2019 23:57
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Alan Moore: Superheroes are bad because they're inherently fascistic Damon Lindelof: Superheroes are problematic because they're cultural appropriation https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/tv-...Q-R0aFLSsXP9XU0 quote:When and how did that idea of Hooded Justice being black — which you’ve said is the big idea behind this take on the series — come to you?
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Dec 17, 2019 00:02
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Niwrad posted:The racial stuff turned out to be a red herring. The 7K were just pawns and wiped out easily by a super laser within seconds (by someone who had no beef with them). Hooded Justice, Tulsa Riots, 7K, masked cops acting like fascists was just tossed aside at the end to make it about Trieu, Manhattan and Viedt. People who weren't important characters for most of the series. I guess I skipped the Lex Luthor v Superman comic where they both die and some lady named Angela is the winner. It didn't stop being about that, you just got too distracted by the blue man. The theme still carried to the end. They can't solve racial injustice in a 9 episode TV show, I think your standards are just way too high. Mullitt posted:Filmmaking is more than just what the characters say. Sure, but what the characters say IS part of it, you can't just ignore that. Dialogue and monologue are some of the most direct forms of how the show communicates its themes and message. So that doesn't really change anything.
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Dec 17, 2019 00:05
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Niwrad posted:Show was about race, trauma, policing, and exploitation at the beginning. Dropped it all to be Lex Luthor vs Superman. If you don't like it when a work of fiction about comic book superheroes invokes real world issues as part of its setting and character building and then ends with a fantastic comic book supervillain plot I recommend you never read a certain comic named Watchmen that was about the cold war, Vietnam, and civil rights and then dropped it all to have a mad scientist kill three million people with a giant squid.
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Dec 17, 2019 00:06
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Barry Convex posted:Alan Moore: Superheroes are bad because they're inherently fascistic Is there an article where he says what inspired episodes 7-9? Sleeveless posted:If you don't like it when a work of fiction about comic book superheroes invokes real world issues as part of its setting and character building and then ends with a fantastic comic book supervillain plot I recommend you never read a certain comic named Watchmen that was about the cold war, Vietnam, and civil rights and then dropped it all to have a mad scientist kill three million people with a giant squid. You keep repeating your master stroke that "the tv show is like the comic" but I think you need to acknowledge that the show didn't do it very well. The complaint ITT is not that the tv show is too different from the source. It's that it's simultaneously derivative of it while also failing to have any real point (and also just a sloppy effort by a sophomoric producer) GoGoGadgetChris fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Dec 17, 2019 |
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Dec 17, 2019 00:06
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Barry Convex posted:hmm it's almost like Damon Lindelof has extremely lovely politics that he's expressed many times over isnt he just a dumb woke lib? like its dumb but he isnt a nazi.
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Dec 17, 2019 00:07
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Niwrad posted:The racial stuff turned out to be a red herring. The 7K were just pawns and wiped out easily by a super laser within seconds (by someone who had no beef with them). Hooded Justice, Tulsa Riots, 7K, masked cops acting like fascists was just tossed aside at the end to make it about Trieu, Manhattan and Viedt. People who weren't important characters for most of the series. I remember a couple episodes back someone said white supremacy is to this Watchmen what the Cold War and nuclear arms race was in the original. An unambiguous evil which all of the characters are driven by or react to, but which are not the center of what the work explores.
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Dec 17, 2019 00:08
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Barry Convex posted:Damon Lindelof: Superheroes are problematic because they're cultural appropriation Real interesting fan-fiction you have going here, but that's not remotely what that quote says? I mean Lindelof is no genius but this is just a real bizarre take.
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Dec 17, 2019 00:08
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Killer robot posted:I remember a couple episodes back someone said white supremacy is to this Watchmen what the Cold War and nuclear arms race was in the original. An unambiguous evil which all of the characters are driven by or react to, but which are not the center of what the work explores. i think thats kinda my issue, because when that was the center of the show, it was pretty good.
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Dec 17, 2019 00:09
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Zaphod42 posted:I guess I skipped the Lex Luthor v Superman comic where they both die and some lady named Angela is the winner. Super smart mad scientist vs God like being is Luthor vs Superman. Don't get me wrong, that story is fun too. Just would have been interesting if it had been remotely part of the first 6 episodes. And yes, it did stop being about that. The 7K were throwaway characters in the end. Could have substituted them with any other bad group and gotten the same results. Sleeveless posted:If you don't like it when a work of fiction about comic book superheroes invokes real world issues as part of its setting and character building and then ends with a fantastic comic book supervillain plot I recommend you never read a certain comic named Watchmen that was about the cold war, Vietnam, and civil rights and then dropped it all to have a mad scientist kill three million people with a giant squid. I think invoking real world issues is fine. I think it was dumb to use real world issues for most of the series and then just tell the audience they didn't matter in the end.
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Dec 17, 2019 00:15
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Is it just me or does it seem that the crux of people's complaints about this show boil down to the fact that a show about loving super heroes isn't the high art they believe they deserve? Anyway I think it was goofy with a dark and surreal humor that I enjoyed. Plus I learnt about the Tulsa massacre which as an Australian I did not know about. Anyway I enjoyed it....FIGHT ME!
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Dec 17, 2019 00:20
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Dapper_Swindler posted:isnt he just a dumb woke lib? like its dumb but he isnt a nazi. Liberals are worse than Nazis, do you not even have a Twitter account
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Dec 17, 2019 00:20
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Niwrad posted:Super smart mad scientist vs God like being is Luthor vs Superman. Don't get me wrong, that story is fun too. Just would have been interesting if it had been remotely part of the first 6 episodes. You could almost see the seam of where they started the cop show, decided halfway through it was gonna be a time travel mystery loop, but instead of rewriting the first half to accommodate that they went "naaaah it's fine, just kinda tape the two halves together"
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Dec 17, 2019 00:20
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Niwrad posted:And yes, it did stop being about that. The 7K were throwaway characters in the end. Could have substituted them with any other bad group and gotten the same results. Not glorifying the 7K and giving them a platform seems good to me. They get vaporized. quote:In the end, Seventh Kavalry are revealed to be a secondary threat who are dispatched fairly easily by Lady Trieu as the real threat. Why was that? Again, Lindelof is no genius, but if you expected him to solve racial injustice in a tv show about costumed adventurers, I don't know how that could happen. This seems pretty fair to me.
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Dec 17, 2019 00:20
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:You keep repeating your master stroke that "the tv show is like the comic" but I think you need to acknowledge that the show didn't do it very well. T Actually I think you'll find that they don't need to acknowledge that it wasn't done well just cause you say they should. Also, adding in extra steps to an argument that's entirely "it's bad" isn't going to actually fool anyone for very long. You need to explain why it's bad. A lot of people are saying things are stupid, and those stupid things turn out to be from the comic. Saying "well sure it's like the comic but it's bad, instead" isn''t actually making an argument, it's just taking the long road to say a simple thing.
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Dec 17, 2019 00:21
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Guy A. Person posted:Actually I think you'll find that they don't need to acknowledge that it wasn't done well just cause you say they should. The uh writing was bad.
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Dec 17, 2019 00:22
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Show was dumb.
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Dec 17, 2019 00:23
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Guy A. Person posted:Actually I think you'll find that they don't need to acknowledge that it wasn't done well just cause you say they should. Oh nooo.... there are still people making this post when all the episodes have aired and the series has its entire hand of cards on the table Y'know, I will just say that it is an Admirable Trait to be easily pleased, and leave it at that. Zaphod42 posted:Not glorifying the 7K and giving them a platform seems good to me. They get vaporized. Personally I think you can say "the show did not meet my expectations" without implying "the show should have solved racial injustice".
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Dec 17, 2019 00:24
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Sardikar posted:Is it just me or does it seem that the crux of people's complaints about this show boil down to the fact that a show about loving super heroes isn't the high art they believe they deserve? I mean yes it was as good as any dumb superhero show but when its following the defining work of the genre its unfortunate that its roughly on the same level as the boys At least the boys knows its the kind of trash that features a woman killing a man with her rear end and revels in it though
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Dec 17, 2019 00:25
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Tossing Senator Klansman and the rest aside with laser blasts and head-pops and radiation goo-ification, dopes who are disposed of almost as an afterthought easily duped and double then triple crossed by much smarter people is a sort of wish-fulfillment that's emotionally satisfying in a facile way. But pretty incongruous with the seriousness and Hell, I'll even say depth and deftness that the early episodes dealt with white supremacy and the black experience with it in America. It's like IDK... if you hook me in with evocative, compelling Holocaust imagery that conveys historical human suffering with a fantasy veneer... and then weave it in so it's all just sort of a side-show to a breakdancing competition between Churchill and Hitler and Churchill serves him so bad all the Wehrmacht and SS guys explode. It makes the early exploration of real, historical atrocity feel retroactively unearned and even exploitative.
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Dec 17, 2019 00:25
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:Oh nooo.... there are still people making this post when all the episodes have aired and the series has its entire hand of cards on the table Another thing that's not an actual argument is this obnoxious, condescending "lol, you're defending the bad show wowww sorry about your bad taste" bullshit gently caress right off with that
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Dec 17, 2019 00:27
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Owlbear Camus posted:Tossing Senator Klansman and the rest aside with laser blasts and head-pops and radiation goo-ification, dopes who are disposed of almost as an afterthought easily duped and double then triple crossed by much smarter people is a sort of wish-fulfillment that's emotionally satisfying in a facile way. But pretty incongruous with the seriousness and Hell, I'll even say depth and deftness that the early episodes dealt with white supremacy and the black experience with it in America. Schindler's list but then at the end you edit in the part from X-Men Apocalypse where Magneto blows up Auschwitz with his superpowers
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Dec 17, 2019 00:30
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Guy A. Person posted:Another thing that's not an actual argument is this obnoxious, condescending "lol, you're defending the bad show wowww sorry about your bad taste" bullshit  I'm not trying to be condescending, just surprised to see a "you can't just say you don't like it, you have to DEBATE me!" post when it's pretty much universally accepted that the show had 6-7 great eppies, 2-3 stink bombs, and didn't quire nail the landing. Is there anything you'd want to argue? seems like the kind of show you finish, say "neat", and move on to the next one!
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Dec 17, 2019 00:32
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:Personally I think you can say "the show did not meet my expectations" without implying "the show should have solved racial injustice". What expectations though, unless the expectation was "American History X TV show with no superheroes" Y'all are acting like we got season 1 about racial issues and then seasons 2 and 3 about just dragon ball z superhero fighting. It was 9 episodes! I dunno, maybe you have more creative ideas than I do. GoGoGadgetChris posted:I'm not trying to be condescending, just surprised to see a "you can't just say you don't like it, you have to DEBATE me!" post when it's pretty much universally accepted that the show had 6-7 great eppies, 2-3 stink bombs, and didn't quire nail the landing. Its pretty much universally accepted that the show was real good start to finish outside of this thread Both on the rest of SA and also the rest of the internet and normal people at large Declaring things like that to back up your argument is also a jerk move unless you're about to actually post like a survey or something, we can both say "its super popular!" or "it super isn't popular!" its totally pointless. Stick to analyzing the show instead of those kinds of argument from authority or argument via bandwagon. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Dec 17, 2019 |
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Dec 17, 2019 00:32
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Wolfsheim posted:I mean yes it was as good as any dumb superhero show but when its following the defining work of the genre its unfortunate that its roughly on the same level as the boys The Boys is a show about a mediocre white guy who is radicalized into becoming a genocidal terrorist because a black drug addict murders his girlfriend and it's portrayed as not only justified but heroic, it's exactly the kind of regressive garbage masquerading under a veneer of paper-thin wokeness people accused Watchmen of being and if you're willing to excuse that because it couches it in a protective ironic layer of quippiness and gore then that says more about you than any failings of this show.
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Dec 17, 2019 00:33
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